Colour Blindness (merged)
Joined: May 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 900
Likes: 0
From: Surrey
No JAA states will accept the Falant, as it is not a JAA authorised test, just as the FAA will not accept the Beynes lantern even tho it is a CAA approved test.
Colourvision is a very difficult subject since there is alot of difference in opinion in how important colourvision is to flying.
Colourvision is a very difficult subject since there is alot of difference in opinion in how important colourvision is to flying.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
From: Earth (unfortunately)
Hello everyone,
its been about 2 years since I posted a message on this exact thread. As a CVD who has succeded in getting past the color vision discrimination (with a lot work) and now has an entry-level flying job, I think we should all be VERY VERY concerned about the NTSB report that come out yesterday. Its about a cargo airliner that crashed short of the runway in Florida. The FO was color defective, had a SODA, and while flying the approach got below glidepath and crashed.
The NTSB has included CVD as part of the probable cause! Furthermore, the recommendations issued to the FAA ask for more stringent color standards.
Since Pape always used the point that no accident was ever attributed to defective color vision, this accident changes everything. I think the long-term political implications of this accident are disastrous for CVD pilots (or future pilots).
It is the first time in aviation history that an accident is blamed in defective color vision. THIS IS VERY BAD NEWS FOR US!
In the US the standards might get stricter. Those with a SODA or LOC might be required to do more tests.
In Europe, where there has been hope for a change, this will inevitable stop everything. the argument: "in the US they give CVD pilots medical and they never crashed because of it" will not work any more. Furthermore, knowing the European mentality (I am european myself) they will immediately say "Let those crazy americans kill themselves by letting colorblind pilots fly... WE will keep our standards high to prevent what happened there".
After this accident I don't think the JAA will EVER relax ther standards.
The airlines themselves might decide to put stricter color vision standards during the hiring medical exam.
Either way, it will eliminate ANY HOPE of a relaxation in color vision standards. Now that all of the aviation community (from AMEs to fellow pilots to airlline executives to government policymakers) will believe that CVD pilots are unsafe, our chances of making it in this industry get slimmer and slimmer.
Sorry for the depressing post guys.
palgia
its been about 2 years since I posted a message on this exact thread. As a CVD who has succeded in getting past the color vision discrimination (with a lot work) and now has an entry-level flying job, I think we should all be VERY VERY concerned about the NTSB report that come out yesterday. Its about a cargo airliner that crashed short of the runway in Florida. The FO was color defective, had a SODA, and while flying the approach got below glidepath and crashed.
The NTSB has included CVD as part of the probable cause! Furthermore, the recommendations issued to the FAA ask for more stringent color standards.
Since Pape always used the point that no accident was ever attributed to defective color vision, this accident changes everything. I think the long-term political implications of this accident are disastrous for CVD pilots (or future pilots).
It is the first time in aviation history that an accident is blamed in defective color vision. THIS IS VERY BAD NEWS FOR US!
In the US the standards might get stricter. Those with a SODA or LOC might be required to do more tests.
In Europe, where there has been hope for a change, this will inevitable stop everything. the argument: "in the US they give CVD pilots medical and they never crashed because of it" will not work any more. Furthermore, knowing the European mentality (I am european myself) they will immediately say "Let those crazy americans kill themselves by letting colorblind pilots fly... WE will keep our standards high to prevent what happened there".
After this accident I don't think the JAA will EVER relax ther standards.
The airlines themselves might decide to put stricter color vision standards during the hiring medical exam.
Either way, it will eliminate ANY HOPE of a relaxation in color vision standards. Now that all of the aviation community (from AMEs to fellow pilots to airlline executives to government policymakers) will believe that CVD pilots are unsafe, our chances of making it in this industry get slimmer and slimmer.
Sorry for the depressing post guys.
palgia
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
From: Earth (unfortunately)
Hello everyone,
its been about 2 years since I posted a message on this exact thread. As a CVD who has succeded in getting past the color vision discrimination (with a lot work) and now has an entry-level flying job, I think we should all be VERY VERY concerned about the NTSB report that come out yesterday. Its about a cargo airliner that crashed short of the runway in Florida. The FO was color defective, had a SODA, and while flying the approach got below glidepath and crashed.
The NTSB has included CVD as part of the probable cause! Furthermore, the recommendations issued to the FAA ask for more stringent color standards.
Since Pape always used the point that no accident was ever attributed to defective color vision, this accident changes everything. I think the long-term political implications of this accident are disastrous for CVD pilots (or future pilots).
It is the first time in aviation history that an accident is blamed in defective color vision. THIS IS VERY BAD NEWS FOR US!
In the US the standards might get stricter. Those with a SODA or LOC might be required to do more tests.
In Europe, where there has been hope for a change, this will inevitable stop everything. the argument: "in the US they give CVD pilots medical and they never crashed because of it" will not work any more. Furthermore, knowing the European mentality (I am european myself) they will immediately say "Let those crazy americans kill themselves by letting colorblind pilots fly... WE will keep our standards high to prevent what happened there".
After this accident I don't think the JAA will EVER relax ther standards.
The airlines themselves might decide to put stricter color vision standards during the hiring medical exam.
Either way, it will eliminate ANY HOPE of a relaxation in color vision standards. Now that all of the aviation community (from AMEs to fellow pilots to airlline executives to government policymakers) will believe that CVD pilots are unsafe, our chances of making it in this industry get slimmer and slimmer.
Sorry for the depressing post guys.
palgia
its been about 2 years since I posted a message on this exact thread. As a CVD who has succeded in getting past the color vision discrimination (with a lot work) and now has an entry-level flying job, I think we should all be VERY VERY concerned about the NTSB report that come out yesterday. Its about a cargo airliner that crashed short of the runway in Florida. The FO was color defective, had a SODA, and while flying the approach got below glidepath and crashed.
The NTSB has included CVD as part of the probable cause! Furthermore, the recommendations issued to the FAA ask for more stringent color standards.
Since Pape always used the point that no accident was ever attributed to defective color vision, this accident changes everything. I think the long-term political implications of this accident are disastrous for CVD pilots (or future pilots).
It is the first time in aviation history that an accident is blamed in defective color vision. THIS IS VERY BAD NEWS FOR US!
In the US the standards might get stricter. Those with a SODA or LOC might be required to do more tests.
In Europe, where there has been hope for a change, this will inevitable stop everything. the argument: "in the US they give CVD pilots medical and they never crashed because of it" will not work any more. Furthermore, knowing the European mentality (I am european myself) they will immediately say "Let those crazy americans kill themselves by letting colorblind pilots fly... WE will keep our standards high to prevent what happened there".
After this accident I don't think the JAA will EVER relax ther standards.
The airlines themselves might decide to put stricter color vision standards during the hiring medical exam.
Either way, it will eliminate ANY HOPE of a relaxation in color vision standards. Now that all of the aviation community (from AMEs to fellow pilots to airlline executives to government policymakers) will believe that CVD pilots are unsafe, our chances of making it in this industry get slimmer and slimmer.
Sorry for the depressing post guys.
palgia
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,013
Likes: 0
From: Here and there
G'day Palgia,
On the face of it, the NTSB conclusions and recommendations would appear to present a setback for all us CVDs. Particularly those aspiring to get into the big jets. But I wouldn't be throwing in the towell just yet.
The issue of the pilot's colour vision was just one of four contributing factors cited in investigation. What is not stated though is whether or not his colour vision is normally able to differentiate the PAPI lights. PAPI to me as a CVD are pretty damn obvious so I wonder what the other pilot was doing whilst 4 reds were allegedly appearing before his eyes.
What also needs to be kept in mind is the large number of pilots already out there flying heavies with abnormal colour vision. If the regulators are going to stop those of us who cannot correctly interpret every plate on an Ishihara test from gaining a licence then surely they will be forced also to remove the medical of those currently flying with the same condition. That I believe is when the real battles will begin.
On the face of it, the NTSB conclusions and recommendations would appear to present a setback for all us CVDs. Particularly those aspiring to get into the big jets. But I wouldn't be throwing in the towell just yet.
Since Pape always used the point that no accident was ever attributed to defective color vision, this accident changes everything. I think the long-term political implications of this accident are disastrous for CVD pilots (or future pilots).
What also needs to be kept in mind is the large number of pilots already out there flying heavies with abnormal colour vision. If the regulators are going to stop those of us who cannot correctly interpret every plate on an Ishihara test from gaining a licence then surely they will be forced also to remove the medical of those currently flying with the same condition. That I believe is when the real battles will begin.
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,013
Likes: 0
From: Here and there
G'day Palgia,
On the face of it, the NTSB conclusions and recommendations would appear to present a setback for all us CVDs. Particularly those aspiring to get into the big jets. But I wouldn't be throwing in the towell just yet.
The issue of the pilot's colour vision was just one of four contributing factors cited in investigation. What is not stated though is whether or not his colour vision is normally able to differentiate the PAPI lights. PAPI to me as a CVD are pretty damn obvious so I wonder what the other pilot was doing whilst 4 reds were allegedly appearing before his eyes.
What also needs to be kept in mind is the large number of pilots already out there flying heavies with abnormal colour vision. If the regulators are going to stop those of us who cannot correctly interpret every plate on an Ishihara test from gaining a licence then surely they will be forced also to remove the medical of those currently flying with the same condition. That I believe is when the real battles will begin.
On the face of it, the NTSB conclusions and recommendations would appear to present a setback for all us CVDs. Particularly those aspiring to get into the big jets. But I wouldn't be throwing in the towell just yet.
Since Pape always used the point that no accident was ever attributed to defective color vision, this accident changes everything. I think the long-term political implications of this accident are disastrous for CVD pilots (or future pilots).
What also needs to be kept in mind is the large number of pilots already out there flying heavies with abnormal colour vision. If the regulators are going to stop those of us who cannot correctly interpret every plate on an Ishihara test from gaining a licence then surely they will be forced also to remove the medical of those currently flying with the same condition. That I believe is when the real battles will begin.
Joined: May 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 900
Likes: 0
From: Surrey
Hello everyone,
Some good news for once! Today I recieved a letter from the CAA, the deupty head of the AMC. It basically outlined the differences and problems with the German and UK beynes test, but the best bit
was that they have now decided that if I can gain a full german class 1 then they will accept this as they would any other medical! Yay!
Very happy. all i need to do now is to get the medical. Wish me luck!
Some good news for once! Today I recieved a letter from the CAA, the deupty head of the AMC. It basically outlined the differences and problems with the German and UK beynes test, but the best bit
was that they have now decided that if I can gain a full german class 1 then they will accept this as they would any other medical! Yay!Very happy. all i need to do now is to get the medical. Wish me luck!
Joined: May 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 900
Likes: 0
From: Surrey
Hello everyone,
Some good news for once! Today I recieved a letter from the CAA, the deupty head of the AMC. It basically outlined the differences and problems with the German and UK beynes test, but the best bit was that they have now decided that if I can gain a full german class 1 then they will accept this as they would any other medical! Yay!
Very happy. all i need to do now is to get the medical. Wish me luck!
Some good news for once! Today I recieved a letter from the CAA, the deupty head of the AMC. It basically outlined the differences and problems with the German and UK beynes test, but the best bit
was that they have now decided that if I can gain a full german class 1 then they will accept this as they would any other medical! Yay!Very happy. all i need to do now is to get the medical. Wish me luck!
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
From: Neither Here Nor There
FAA Colour Vision Lantern Tests
I'm aware that there is a very extensive thread on the subject of colour vision, however, this request is a bit more specific.
Does anyone know of any FAA AME in the UK, Ireland or Western Europe that can carry out one of the FAA approved Colour Vision Lantern Tests, as listed at:
http://www.faa.gov/avr/aam/Game/Vers...er%201/1.3.htm
I've written to and e-mailed the FAA but unfortunately no response.
Could any of the remaining USAF bases help out?????
Be grateful for any information.
Best Regards,
2close
Does anyone know of any FAA AME in the UK, Ireland or Western Europe that can carry out one of the FAA approved Colour Vision Lantern Tests, as listed at:
http://www.faa.gov/avr/aam/Game/Vers...er%201/1.3.htm
I've written to and e-mailed the FAA but unfortunately no response.
Could any of the remaining USAF bases help out?????
Be grateful for any information.
Best Regards,
2close
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
From: Neither Here Nor There
FAA Colour Vision Lantern Tests
I'm aware that there is a very extensive thread on the subject of colour vision, however, this request is a bit more specific.
Does anyone know of any FAA AME in the UK, Ireland or Western Europe that can carry out one of the FAA approved Colour Vision Lantern Tests, as listed at:
http://www.faa.gov/avr/aam/Game/Vers...er%201/1.3.htm
I've written to and e-mailed the FAA but unfortunately no response.
Could any of the remaining USAF bases help out?????
Be grateful for any information.
Best Regards,
2close
Does anyone know of any FAA AME in the UK, Ireland or Western Europe that can carry out one of the FAA approved Colour Vision Lantern Tests, as listed at:
http://www.faa.gov/avr/aam/Game/Vers...er%201/1.3.htm
I've written to and e-mailed the FAA but unfortunately no response.
Could any of the remaining USAF bases help out?????
Be grateful for any information.
Best Regards,
2close
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,414
Likes: 2
From: Europe
For the FAA the format is that you get an endorsed medical and if you want to get the day/vfr endorsement lifted you need to contact the FAA in Oklahoma who will organise through one of their FSDOs a test at one of their FAA towers.
As far as I am aware that can only be done in the States.
HTH
FD
As far as I am aware that can only be done in the States.
HTH
FD
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,414
Likes: 2
From: Europe
For the FAA the format is that you get an endorsed medical and if you want to get the day/vfr endorsement lifted you need to contact the FAA in Oklahoma who will organise through one of their FSDOs a test at one of their FAA towers.
As far as I am aware that can only be done in the States.
HTH
FD
As far as I am aware that can only be done in the States.
HTH
FD
Joined: May 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 900
Likes: 0
From: Surrey
Most AMEs will only carry the basics, either the ishara plates or the titmus machine (which is basically the plates too).
I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't get a AME, especially in the UK with a lantern test. I think there are only 3 places in the UK that have lanterns and they are the two main universities for opticains and the CAA.
You could try the FAA london field office, they might be able to arrange a field signal test here in the UK.
I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't get a AME, especially in the UK with a lantern test. I think there are only 3 places in the UK that have lanterns and they are the two main universities for opticains and the CAA.
You could try the FAA london field office, they might be able to arrange a field signal test here in the UK.
Joined: May 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 900
Likes: 0
From: Surrey
Most AMEs will only carry the basics, either the ishara plates or the titmus machine (which is basically the plates too).
I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't get a AME, especially in the UK with a lantern test. I think there are only 3 places in the UK that have lanterns and they are the two main universities for opticains and the CAA.
You could try the FAA london field office, they might be able to arrange a field signal test here in the UK.
I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't get a AME, especially in the UK with a lantern test. I think there are only 3 places in the UK that have lanterns and they are the two main universities for opticains and the CAA.
You could try the FAA london field office, they might be able to arrange a field signal test here in the UK.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
From: Neither Here Nor There
Thanks very much for the replies and excellent news, Blinkz, regarding the letter from the CAA.
I'm going to give the FAA's London office a ring and see what they say.
If I get anywhere I'll update the thread in case someone else is in a similar position.
Best Regards,
2close
I'm going to give the FAA's London office a ring and see what they say.
If I get anywhere I'll update the thread in case someone else is in a similar position.
Best Regards,
2close