Agusta A109
Join Date: Nov 2002
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I agree with Jed A1. The A109 is an excellent machine particularly the E and contrary to some peoples opinions here operates in many "workhorse" roles with considerable success. However it would appear that the more they are utilised the better the reliabilty becomes (particularly on the A and C).
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: LEAX, Spain
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Totally agree with all the above.
Work them hard, and every day, and they'll love ya. Leave them sitting around with nothing to do and they'll cost you dear.
...bit like an Italian girlfriend I once had
Work them hard, and every day, and they'll love ya. Leave them sitting around with nothing to do and they'll cost you dear.
...bit like an Italian girlfriend I once had
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
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Mister Zukerman
I am surprised to discover such a degree of resentment towards Agusta.
First, I think you posted your thoughts in the wrong subject. This topic is the discussion on the A109 reliability and not the personal regrets towards companies that did not satisfy your personal expectations.
I did not find any contribution to the discussion on the A109 reliability but only bad words against a company that deserve at least respect.
You said you spent three years working at Agusta. In my opinion you lost a great opportunity of see Italy because is so evident you’ve been living for such a long time with big and thick slices of good Italian salame (and not salami as you British keep saying) on your eyes.
The idea that Italians are inferior with respect to the ability, that people like you owe, in working on a complicated work is the evidence you consider Italians inferior and do not deserve the respect by you.
I am still laughing about your idea of machismo that affects Italians. This the evidence that you have lost a good opportunity of get in touch with Italian culture that, fore sure, is far greater than yours.
I suggest you that next time you’ll been visiting Italy, whenever this will happen, to bring with you some good working manual for complex projects to distribute to the poor Italians workers. This will allow my Country to reach a descent level of competence to deserve the honour to talk to you.
By the way the name of the company is Agusta and not Augusta.
I am surprised to discover such a degree of resentment towards Agusta.
First, I think you posted your thoughts in the wrong subject. This topic is the discussion on the A109 reliability and not the personal regrets towards companies that did not satisfy your personal expectations.
I did not find any contribution to the discussion on the A109 reliability but only bad words against a company that deserve at least respect.
You said you spent three years working at Agusta. In my opinion you lost a great opportunity of see Italy because is so evident you’ve been living for such a long time with big and thick slices of good Italian salame (and not salami as you British keep saying) on your eyes.
The idea that Italians are inferior with respect to the ability, that people like you owe, in working on a complicated work is the evidence you consider Italians inferior and do not deserve the respect by you.
I am still laughing about your idea of machismo that affects Italians. This the evidence that you have lost a good opportunity of get in touch with Italian culture that, fore sure, is far greater than yours.
I suggest you that next time you’ll been visiting Italy, whenever this will happen, to bring with you some good working manual for complex projects to distribute to the poor Italians workers. This will allow my Country to reach a descent level of competence to deserve the honour to talk to you.
By the way the name of the company is Agusta and not Augusta.
Join Date: May 2002
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Yes Zuckerman,
I do think you have a strange attitude towards Agusta.
The asbestos problem was not as you described. The asbestos presence in the air of the hangar was kept monitored twice a year. About fifteen years ago the hangar structures were completely cleaned by asbestos.
The atmosphere in northern Italy is very humid and hence more corrosive than normal but no more than that. I still have my Lancia since ten years in perfect conditions although it was never waxed and it does'nt have a great reputation for its resistance to corrosion.
PS: Yes I work for Agusta and I'm sorry, but if you hate Italian Salame you miss a good taste of life.
Buona Fortuna LU
I do think you have a strange attitude towards Agusta.
The asbestos problem was not as you described. The asbestos presence in the air of the hangar was kept monitored twice a year. About fifteen years ago the hangar structures were completely cleaned by asbestos.
The atmosphere in northern Italy is very humid and hence more corrosive than normal but no more than that. I still have my Lancia since ten years in perfect conditions although it was never waxed and it does'nt have a great reputation for its resistance to corrosion.
PS: Yes I work for Agusta and I'm sorry, but if you hate Italian Salame you miss a good taste of life.
Buona Fortuna LU
Join Date: Oct 2002
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bpaggi,
You need to calm down and not act like machismo Italian! First you talk to 'Mister Zukerman', then to 'Zuckerman' ( quite rude really) who actually says he like Salame and thinks it very tasty. It was also not he who spelt Agusta wrongly.
My own observation of Agusta 109 is not that is especially unreliable, but that spares back-up is poor, maybe backing up what Lu says - which is not that the A109 is bad, but product support needs to be improved.
(my own Italian car started to rust almost as soon as I got it - I now only drive German
)
You need to calm down and not act like machismo Italian! First you talk to 'Mister Zukerman', then to 'Zuckerman' ( quite rude really) who actually says he like Salame and thinks it very tasty. It was also not he who spelt Agusta wrongly.
My own observation of Agusta 109 is not that is especially unreliable, but that spares back-up is poor, maybe backing up what Lu says - which is not that the A109 is bad, but product support needs to be improved.
(my own Italian car started to rust almost as soon as I got it - I now only drive German
)
Iconoclast
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The home of Dudley Dooright-Where the lead dog is the only one that gets a change of scenery.
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Reliability is an eleven letter word. It means different things to different folks
To: bpaggi
Speaking of reliable automobiles I sold a perfectly good Mitsubishi Colt (the one I drove from Germany) and bought a Lancia Delta 1600. From the start I had electrical problems that almost resulted in a fire. I had wheel-bearing problems and the factory paint was so bad that I had to get part of the car repainted. I found defects in the cars structure that occurred when the car was being built and the service was so bad in Arona that I used to drive to Lugano for any repairs or service. I ended up selling the car in Zurich.
My present car is a Toyota built in Canada and it is very reliable.
Speaking of reliable automobiles I sold a perfectly good Mitsubishi Colt (the one I drove from Germany) and bought a Lancia Delta 1600. From the start I had electrical problems that almost resulted in a fire. I had wheel-bearing problems and the factory paint was so bad that I had to get part of the car repainted. I found defects in the cars structure that occurred when the car was being built and the service was so bad in Arona that I used to drive to Lugano for any repairs or service. I ended up selling the car in Zurich.
My present car is a Toyota built in Canada and it is very reliable.
Last edited by Lu Zuckerman; 2nd Oct 2003 at 23:47.
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Location: Terra Firma
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I hear that a new helicopter operator in West Africa is looking at starting an operation with 3 Agusta 109 Powers in a few months, so maybe we'll get some more feedback then about both reliabilty and support.
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To: Mambobass
Do you have any more information on this proposed operation? Are they buying 3 new Power's for Commercial use?
To: Lu Zuckerman
Perhaps you need to look at the title of the thread again!
I'm quite sure that lots of people could air their grievences in respect of the other major manufacturers too, however you may notice that most people choose not to which is either a reflection on you or them. Perhaps the phrase "time and place" is appropriate here.
A perfectly valid question was asked as to the comparitive reliability of the A109 and it would appear as I stated earlier that the consenus is that they are fundamentally a reliable machine that likes to be worked hard to achieve best serviceability. A trait I'm sure you will agree is not without its benefits.
Do you have any more information on this proposed operation? Are they buying 3 new Power's for Commercial use?
To: Lu Zuckerman
Perhaps you need to look at the title of the thread again!
I'm quite sure that lots of people could air their grievences in respect of the other major manufacturers too, however you may notice that most people choose not to which is either a reflection on you or them. Perhaps the phrase "time and place" is appropriate here.
A perfectly valid question was asked as to the comparitive reliability of the A109 and it would appear as I stated earlier that the consenus is that they are fundamentally a reliable machine that likes to be worked hard to achieve best serviceability. A trait I'm sure you will agree is not without its benefits.
Iconoclast
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The home of Dudley Dooright-Where the lead dog is the only one that gets a change of scenery.
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Yeah but....
To: Elite
You have totally missed the point of my post. In addressing the internal problems that were so pervasive within Agusta engineering and product support (while I was there) I was trying to point out some of the possible underlying reasons for the unreliability of the A-109. There was no communication and without communication there can be no product integrity.
I did not indicate that the A-109 is unreliable it was other members of this thread that pointed that out. Other members of the forum indicated that they did not feel that the A-109 was unreliable but that frequent maintenance was required to maintain the reliability.
However frequent maintenance is a form of unreliability because the helicopter was unable to go from one periodic maintenance to the next without some type of tweaking and/or servicing.
If you feel that I have been unfair in my assumptions about Agusta you should read some of my posts on the A-310 and Bell Helicopter.
I'm quite sure that lots of people could air their grievences in respect of the other major manufacturers too, however you may notice that most people choose not to which is either a reflection on you or them. Perhaps the phrase "time and place" is appropriate here.
I did not indicate that the A-109 is unreliable it was other members of this thread that pointed that out. Other members of the forum indicated that they did not feel that the A-109 was unreliable but that frequent maintenance was required to maintain the reliability.
However frequent maintenance is a form of unreliability because the helicopter was unable to go from one periodic maintenance to the next without some type of tweaking and/or servicing.
If you feel that I have been unfair in my assumptions about Agusta you should read some of my posts on the A-310 and Bell Helicopter.
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Agusta 109a info
Hi, are there any agusta 109a pilots here who would be able to provide me with information on this helicopter.
I am building one for flight simulator and Im looking for stuff like start up and shut down procedures and any general info about it and its handling.
Thanks
Alan
my email is [email protected] if you want to email me.
I am building one for flight simulator and Im looking for stuff like start up and shut down procedures and any general info about it and its handling.
Thanks
Alan
my email is [email protected] if you want to email me.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Australia
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Agusta with sore chin
G'day All,
Just heard (from a little birdie, of course), that a nice shiny new A109E in Melbourne may now sport a sore chin due to a towing mishap where the nose wheel retracted without warning. I suppose that's what happens when you have those new fangled wheel thingies. Give me good old skids anyday!!
Cheers,
MPT
PS See page 9 on the piccies thread for a "before" picture.
(edited to try and get the first "u" out of Augusta, rats!!!)
Just heard (from a little birdie, of course), that a nice shiny new A109E in Melbourne may now sport a sore chin due to a towing mishap where the nose wheel retracted without warning. I suppose that's what happens when you have those new fangled wheel thingies. Give me good old skids anyday!!
Cheers,
MPT
PS See page 9 on the piccies thread for a "before" picture.
(edited to try and get the first "u" out of Augusta, rats!!!)
Last edited by MPT; 8th Sep 2003 at 22:00.
Join Date: May 2001
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An Agusta 109 was being wheeled down a ramp off a ship in Liverpool when a shackle broke and it rolled into a bollard. There was a little dint in the radome, like if you'd hit your egg gently with your spoon. Damage was £15,000.
A bit "Roman-nosey" you might say!!
Iconoclast
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When instructions are not followed.
Agusta shipped a brand new A-109 to the Far East. To protect it during shipment they placed it in a seagoing metal container. There was one problem. The rotor mast protruded through the top of the container. Agusta specified to the shipping firm that no containers be placed on top of the container containing the helicopter. The helicopter was mounted on a metal frame attached to the jacking pads and vibration absorbers isolated the frame. The shipping company followed Agustas’ instructions but the container was not placed on the top of the other containers for the seagoing part of the trip. In fact there were at least three containers placed on top of the container with the helicopter.
The weight on the top drove the transmission down into the fuselage and when the helicopter arrived at its’ destination it was a write off.
The weight on the top drove the transmission down into the fuselage and when the helicopter arrived at its’ destination it was a write off.