Agusta A109
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 814
Likes: 1
From: Iceland
Here are some figures posted in this thread:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...t=empty+weight
The poster is refering to a table that was on Sloanes webpage but is no more.
The poster seems to figure on a 1950 kg empty wt for 109C.
I´m also interested in inputs regarding the 109A or C models are they a good buy for some light corporate and aerial work or should I stay away from them?
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Stinger
Guest
posted 18th June 2002 20:52
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It is always an interesting execise to compare these kinds of statistics, and they often vary between the sales agent and the operator. I would say treat the above as generally fairly optimistic.
You will also have to recalculate some of the figures due to minor errors in the table - for e.g. all 109s (prior to the E model) have a basic fuel capacity of 420kgs (give or take a kg or 2). The II and the C have the option of an aux tank of capacity 120kgs, giving a total of 540 kgs on these aircraft - so delete any reference to 566 or 581kgs of fuel.
Not sure what a 'block speed' is in helicopters - but 145, possibly 150kts is balls to the wall for any 109, and is weight/conditions dependent. I would not plan any faster than 140 cruise.
So, take the 109C for example - I would offer the following figures: (with the table figures in brackets)
Max Gross: (2720) 2720 kgs
Empty Weight: (1900) 1950 would be nearer the average, so:
Useful Load: (820) 770 kgs
Max fuel weight: (581) 540 kgs - with aux tank
Payload with full fuel: (239) 230 - pilot + 1.5 pax
Fuel consuption: (185) 200 !! - you might get a kilo or 2 less at altitude - but don't bet your granny on it.
So, endurance with full fuel: (2:45) 2:00 hours only, which gives a range of 290 nm - at 145kts (not 407 nm). Naturally it does depend slightly on your calculation of 'VFR reserves'. I also have a personal in-flight minimum of 50kgs a side.
The 'A' model works out at around 1:45 endurance (no aux tank) for a range of 250nm, with pilot +3. A+ is 2:15 hours, 330nm, pilot +1. The 109E Power will fly for 2:45, 415nm with pilot +1. A Power in the real world weighs nearer 2000kgs than the 1870 in the table.
Notwithstanding the above, there is no better helicopter, if you need to move a small number of people, up to 200nm, in the shortest time, resonable comfort, any weather day or night - AND it is the best looking machine in the air.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...t=empty+weight
The poster is refering to a table that was on Sloanes webpage but is no more.
The poster seems to figure on a 1950 kg empty wt for 109C.
I´m also interested in inputs regarding the 109A or C models are they a good buy for some light corporate and aerial work or should I stay away from them?
------------
Stinger
Guest
posted 18th June 2002 20:52
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is always an interesting execise to compare these kinds of statistics, and they often vary between the sales agent and the operator. I would say treat the above as generally fairly optimistic.
You will also have to recalculate some of the figures due to minor errors in the table - for e.g. all 109s (prior to the E model) have a basic fuel capacity of 420kgs (give or take a kg or 2). The II and the C have the option of an aux tank of capacity 120kgs, giving a total of 540 kgs on these aircraft - so delete any reference to 566 or 581kgs of fuel.
Not sure what a 'block speed' is in helicopters - but 145, possibly 150kts is balls to the wall for any 109, and is weight/conditions dependent. I would not plan any faster than 140 cruise.
So, take the 109C for example - I would offer the following figures: (with the table figures in brackets)
Max Gross: (2720) 2720 kgs
Empty Weight: (1900) 1950 would be nearer the average, so:
Useful Load: (820) 770 kgs
Max fuel weight: (581) 540 kgs - with aux tank
Payload with full fuel: (239) 230 - pilot + 1.5 pax
Fuel consuption: (185) 200 !! - you might get a kilo or 2 less at altitude - but don't bet your granny on it.
So, endurance with full fuel: (2:45) 2:00 hours only, which gives a range of 290 nm - at 145kts (not 407 nm). Naturally it does depend slightly on your calculation of 'VFR reserves'. I also have a personal in-flight minimum of 50kgs a side.
The 'A' model works out at around 1:45 endurance (no aux tank) for a range of 250nm, with pilot +3. A+ is 2:15 hours, 330nm, pilot +1. The 109E Power will fly for 2:45, 415nm with pilot +1. A Power in the real world weighs nearer 2000kgs than the 1870 in the table.
Notwithstanding the above, there is no better helicopter, if you need to move a small number of people, up to 200nm, in the shortest time, resonable comfort, any weather day or night - AND it is the best looking machine in the air.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Joined: Nov 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,753
Likes: 65
From: Alles über die platz
TC,
FNW is not the only one who seems to have heard that one!!
http://features.thisisgwent.co.uk/ea...id=733&id=8397
"The Air Consortium (a partnership between Gwent and South Wales Police Forces) is examining the impact of changes to Home Office funding arrangements, and the feasibility of including Dyfed Powys Police in a three-Force consortium for the provision of air support services, which may lead to a more efficient air support service. "
SS
FNW is not the only one who seems to have heard that one!!
http://features.thisisgwent.co.uk/ea...id=733&id=8397
"The Air Consortium (a partnership between Gwent and South Wales Police Forces) is examining the impact of changes to Home Office funding arrangements, and the feasibility of including Dyfed Powys Police in a three-Force consortium for the provision of air support services, which may lead to a more efficient air support service. "
SS
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,187
Likes: 16
From: Waltham Abbey, Essex, UK
But surely that wording would/could mean Dyfed/Gwent/South Wales and not preclude them operating two Agusta's with the addition of the present North Wales EC135 into an All Wales force?
It emains pretty open though and might also mean the Dyfed machine covering southern Wales and the EC135 northern Wales, thereby making the current flurry of type presentations to the Cardiff operators a 'waste of effort.'
Always acknowledging that few police want an all Wales force in the first place!
It emains pretty open though and might also mean the Dyfed machine covering southern Wales and the EC135 northern Wales, thereby making the current flurry of type presentations to the Cardiff operators a 'waste of effort.'
Always acknowledging that few police want an all Wales force in the first place!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Coventry
Hello TC!
I've flown it and its very very very fast!!!
168Kts in level flight and its limited to that cos its Vne!!!
1.1 Tonnes of Payload!
Anyway its too late now, so if you want any more details, send me a PM.
I've flown it and its very very very fast!!!
168Kts in level flight and its limited to that cos its Vne!!!
1.1 Tonnes of Payload!
Anyway its too late now, so if you want any more details, send me a PM.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Coventry
It will do 168Kts at around 80% Tq if your light.
If your Heavy possibly needing around 95%, and at that your burning around 220 / 230 Kgs per hour.
If you want to slow down to a mear 150Kts (so slow) the burn will be sub 200kgs per hour.
It will do 130/ 140Kts on one engine!!
Its all to do with the new efficient rotor head and blades!
You Will Love it!!!!
If your Heavy possibly needing around 95%, and at that your burning around 220 / 230 Kgs per hour.
If you want to slow down to a mear 150Kts (so slow) the burn will be sub 200kgs per hour.
It will do 130/ 140Kts on one engine!!
Its all to do with the new efficient rotor head and blades!
You Will Love it!!!!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 573
Likes: 0
From: uk
This helicopter is just what we need. But, these accolades are from the pilots point of view. What about the passenger comforts? The seats in the back, those facing backwards are very straight up and not too comfortable on the 109/119s. Have these seats been improved along with the other enhancements.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,009
Likes: 0
From: All The Places I Shouldnt Be
New Koala Tail Rotor Blades
Have had a couple of emails from members asking if I had some pics of the new Koala tail rotor blades, well here is a piccie now. These ones are attached to the Koalas in the GOM being operated by ERA.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 178
Likes: 5
From: Great White North
Re: New Koala Tail Rotor Blades
I was told by one of the designers at Agusta that the blade tip profile is meant to mimic the tip of a bats wing, causing a substantial reduction in the noise signature
Can anybody confirm
Can anybody confirm