Aerobatics in a 407 (Incl. video)
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: South Africa
BELL407
The pilot flying the 407 is a highly qualified pilot with many hours experience and one of the best instructors I've ever had the privelige to fly with. At NO time was the aircraft or himself in any danger. Most of you try and get your heads out of your ar@#$ and realise that the manouvere was a very carefully planned and executed performance!!
Please don't make assumptions whether he had permission or not if you don't know. Most of these guys have extensive operational flying, something that most heli. pilots dream of.
Give a little credit where it's due guys. Any of you ever pushed the envelope.... even slightly!!
Please don't make assumptions whether he had permission or not if you don't know. Most of these guys have extensive operational flying, something that most heli. pilots dream of.
Give a little credit where it's due guys. Any of you ever pushed the envelope.... even slightly!!
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 371
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere South of the Limpopo
Camshan...
Little bit tense for your first post dontyathink...
May I suggest you READ all the previous posts again..
NOBODY has said that the man is not highly qualified and experienced - quite the opposite in fact.
The reasoning behind the views expressed here, are that it is clear that Bell dont share your views and there is now a very expensive machine declared unairworthy. (see quote below)
This is FACT, not assumption.
As for pushing the envelope - yes, I am sure many have done so. But to disregard the POH and the manufacturer's clear instructions is a different thing altogether. To knowingly and willingly flout the rules is another.
Another time, another place, maybe with the factory 407 test pilot on board - well, who knows. Maybe it would be written into the POH and Bell have another sales pitch to use. This time however, this was not the case.
R
Little bit tense for your first post dontyathink...
May I suggest you READ all the previous posts again..
NOBODY has said that the man is not highly qualified and experienced - quite the opposite in fact.
At NO time was the aircraft or himself in any danger.
Nobody is denying his talent and personality, but MANY people have been in contact with CAA and NO permission was granted.
As for pushing the envelope - yes, I am sure many have done so. But to disregard the POH and the manufacturer's clear instructions is a different thing altogether. To knowingly and willingly flout the rules is another.
Another time, another place, maybe with the factory 407 test pilot on board - well, who knows. Maybe it would be written into the POH and Bell have another sales pitch to use. This time however, this was not the case.
R
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 60
Likes: 1
From: South Africa
407 MATTER LAID TO REST
This topic, in my opinion has been informative and helpfull to most prospective display pilots, however, I feel that it has been rehashed enough.
Here are the facts:
a. The B407 in question has been grounded pending clarification from the manufacturer on actions required to reinstate the COA.
b. The pilot in questions license has been suspended by the CAA pending remedial action ie. rewriting certain exams.
The pilot in question certainly is a nice guy, he is an experienced helicopter pilot and at the time of the incident had less than 10 hours on type.
I think the authoritues has sent the required message to all aircrew that this type of behaviour will be seen in a serious light and will not be tolerated at any time.
Cheers
Warloc67
Here are the facts:
a. The B407 in question has been grounded pending clarification from the manufacturer on actions required to reinstate the COA.
b. The pilot in questions license has been suspended by the CAA pending remedial action ie. rewriting certain exams.
The pilot in question certainly is a nice guy, he is an experienced helicopter pilot and at the time of the incident had less than 10 hours on type.
I think the authoritues has sent the required message to all aircrew that this type of behaviour will be seen in a serious light and will not be tolerated at any time.
Cheers
Warloc67
Gatvol
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,197
Likes: 0
From: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Camshan writes:"Most of you try and get your heads out of your ar@#$ and realise that the manouvere was a very carefully planned and executed performance!! "
Just cant help meself. Another Lurker who also may be a pilot streching bolts on someones airframe.
"A carefully planned and executed performance" against the manufacturers instructions is something that costs money, luckily no lives.
Its obvious that it can be done, just as you can run across the N1 during rush hour traffic............sometimes.
The book just says NO, very simple. So now Camshan we all want you to got out buy a 407 (Rand is better now)and lets watch this guy loop it a few times as we know it can be done. The you dutifully note the loops in the logbook and we can say it was a great show while you try and sell your piece of junk.
By the way it also says about the same thing in the squirell manual and the 206 manual. Can we count on YOU to fly one of those in a loop. Let me know Im getting tickets.
Just cant help meself. Another Lurker who also may be a pilot streching bolts on someones airframe.
"A carefully planned and executed performance" against the manufacturers instructions is something that costs money, luckily no lives.
Its obvious that it can be done, just as you can run across the N1 during rush hour traffic............sometimes.
The book just says NO, very simple. So now Camshan we all want you to got out buy a 407 (Rand is better now)and lets watch this guy loop it a few times as we know it can be done. The you dutifully note the loops in the logbook and we can say it was a great show while you try and sell your piece of junk.
By the way it also says about the same thing in the squirell manual and the 206 manual. Can we count on YOU to fly one of those in a loop. Let me know Im getting tickets.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
From: South Africa
I agree DD. Very defensive of Starbright!
Other manufacturers have been known to perform 'aerobatic' manouvers in their helicopters using test pilots and the machines are equipped with g meters etc and then even if limits have not been exceeded, reducing all component life by 50%. Result - costs rocket!
Other manufacturers have been known to perform 'aerobatic' manouvers in their helicopters using test pilots and the machines are equipped with g meters etc and then even if limits have not been exceeded, reducing all component life by 50%. Result - costs rocket!
Grandpa Aerotart
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,579
Likes: 3
From: SWP
B Sousa you are correct. When chaps earlier in the thread were stating 'first even civvy chopper looped/rolled'..or words to that effect..I was thinking about the MD500E (from memory) that was looped and rolled on the practice day at an Oz airshow about 25 odd years ago. The Oz CAA guy went ballistic and the MD Factory Test Pilot was absolutely forbidden from performing those manouvers during the airshow.
From memory he didn't roll but did 'loop'...he just tilted the manouver over a little so it wasn't a 'true' loop...probably looked more spectacular as a result. Pissed the CAA guy off but I think nothing happened.
At the same airshow someone else aileron rolled a Lear 35 at low level...think he was in the !!!! too afterwards.
I'm afraid I have a foot in each camp...been guilty of hijinx in the long past, better behaved these days...aero confined to the sim during recurrent each 6 months. I am completely happy to appreciate a talented pilot doing such manouvering...but to void an aircrafts COA, insurance, warranties etc etc is unforgivable imho.
The 10hrs on type bit gives me the shudders.
Still would love to see the footage
Like I said...a foot in each camp.
Chuck.
From memory he didn't roll but did 'loop'...he just tilted the manouver over a little so it wasn't a 'true' loop...probably looked more spectacular as a result. Pissed the CAA guy off but I think nothing happened.
At the same airshow someone else aileron rolled a Lear 35 at low level...think he was in the !!!! too afterwards.
I'm afraid I have a foot in each camp...been guilty of hijinx in the long past, better behaved these days...aero confined to the sim during recurrent each 6 months. I am completely happy to appreciate a talented pilot doing such manouvering...but to void an aircrafts COA, insurance, warranties etc etc is unforgivable imho.
The 10hrs on type bit gives me the shudders.
Still would love to see the footage
Like I said...a foot in each camp.
Chuck.
OffoshoreIgor Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
From: UK
Video, now, or i'll loop all my sim helicopters on Flt Sim 2000, not inform (or update my insurance) my insurance company, not get authorisation from CAA and not get approval from manufacturers. This is not an idle threat pruners!!
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,197
Likes: 1
From: UK
You can view the video by clicking this link.
Bell 407 loop
Another link here
It's a big file. The best way to view it, especially for those on dial-up connections, is to 'Right-click' on the link, then select 'Save Target As ...' to save it before playing.
As a Moderator, I won't enter into the debate about whether the pilot should or should not have done it, but the video is well worth watching whatever your views.
Heliport
Bell 407 loop
Another link here
It's a big file. The best way to view it, especially for those on dial-up connections, is to 'Right-click' on the link, then select 'Save Target As ...' to save it before playing.
As a Moderator, I won't enter into the debate about whether the pilot should or should not have done it, but the video is well worth watching whatever your views.
Heliport
WoW
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: South Africa
ou Trek Dronkie
There is a picture in the Bloemfontein Flying Club of a SAA 737 doing the same trick. A large amount of critisism for Air Zim came from SAA pilots .....mmmmmm
I have never forgotten the moron who flew a B707 of Air Zim EXTREMELY low at an airshow in Harare a while back. Many applauded his efforts but some of us felt like weeping. It was very stupid, but so many raved over it. Same syndrome perhaps.