Aerobatics in a 407 (Incl. video)
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Sir Cumference. Please would you post the URL of where the footage is once you have posted it. There will be plenty guys wanting the video as SABC doesn't have the time to reply to our requests.
Thanks
Thanks
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Pete, you can contact Monitoring SA (Pty) Ltd. Don't waste your time with the SABC.
They monitor all the TV & Radio Broadcasts on a 24 hour basis, and have all TV footages shot daily and broadcasted by the SABC on hand/file.
Their telephone number is 021-975-5755. They'll gladly make you a copy of the SABC broadcast at a fee.
They monitor all the TV & Radio Broadcasts on a 24 hour basis, and have all TV footages shot daily and broadcasted by the SABC on hand/file.
Their telephone number is 021-975-5755. They'll gladly make you a copy of the SABC broadcast at a fee.
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Blenderpilot – please cease and desist forthwith! A friend of mine was working at a Hawaiian operation (now defunct – I wonder why?) where the Chief Pilot used to loop the H500D solo, just to show everyone who was Chief. One day when they were investigating a vibration they couldn’t pin down they found he’d broken 5 out of the 7 straps in the MR hub strap pack! Count them!
About the gentleman who performed a loop and roll in a 407 – a lot more goes into the design limitations of a helicopter than torque and Gs. What about momentary pitch and roll accelerations? Blade twisting moments? A whole heap of engineering limits that are never even mentioned in RFMs are considered by the engineers who design these aircraft, and their values are determined based on how pilots are expected to fly the aircraft. Nobody in Bell thought the B407 would be looped and rolled, so they probably didn’t calculate all the stresses on each individual component generated by these maneuvers. If they did, they might have found that e.g. the transmission mounts would have to be replaced if one exceeded 30% torque in the loop, or a new rotor head would be required if the roll took less than 25 secs. to complete. Nick, Shawn and Rich have a much better understanding of these considerations than most of us line pilots, but I’m sure that even they occasionally ask an engineer “Why not?”, and after a very complex explanation then say “Oh, I see.”
So if someone performs a maneuver that is specifically prohibited in the RFM, EVERY component of that helicopter is now considered as potentially having exceeded its design limitations, and since there’s no way of telling if they did or didn’t (this is why engineering prototypes always have huge numbers of sensors aboard) EVERY component of that aircraft must be scrapped. The owner(s) can build a new aircraft around the data plate.
About the gentleman who performed a loop and roll in a 407 – a lot more goes into the design limitations of a helicopter than torque and Gs. What about momentary pitch and roll accelerations? Blade twisting moments? A whole heap of engineering limits that are never even mentioned in RFMs are considered by the engineers who design these aircraft, and their values are determined based on how pilots are expected to fly the aircraft. Nobody in Bell thought the B407 would be looped and rolled, so they probably didn’t calculate all the stresses on each individual component generated by these maneuvers. If they did, they might have found that e.g. the transmission mounts would have to be replaced if one exceeded 30% torque in the loop, or a new rotor head would be required if the roll took less than 25 secs. to complete. Nick, Shawn and Rich have a much better understanding of these considerations than most of us line pilots, but I’m sure that even they occasionally ask an engineer “Why not?”, and after a very complex explanation then say “Oh, I see.”
So if someone performs a maneuver that is specifically prohibited in the RFM, EVERY component of that helicopter is now considered as potentially having exceeded its design limitations, and since there’s no way of telling if they did or didn’t (this is why engineering prototypes always have huge numbers of sensors aboard) EVERY component of that aircraft must be scrapped. The owner(s) can build a new aircraft around the data plate.
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Mmmmmh . . . .
Bronx,
I'm with you, that was a badly needed offset point of view
Buitenzorg,
I think you don't know much about what you are saying, straps in the 500 break due to rough handling of the aircraft, I worked at a company which had at one time had more than 20 MD500 at one time, and there were a couple of pilots who were rough at the controls all the time and would break the straps after a short while of flying the machine, then we had our CP who was as "smooth as a baby" at the controls and would loop the 500 every chance he got and his was the best machine by far.
eagle 86,
Your last comment to Bronx makes me think you are being missed by the "experienced and professional bunch" at JustHelicopters. I am even embarrased to admit I go by there sometimes.
I'm with you, that was a badly needed offset point of view
Buitenzorg,
I think you don't know much about what you are saying, straps in the 500 break due to rough handling of the aircraft, I worked at a company which had at one time had more than 20 MD500 at one time, and there were a couple of pilots who were rough at the controls all the time and would break the straps after a short while of flying the machine, then we had our CP who was as "smooth as a baby" at the controls and would loop the 500 every chance he got and his was the best machine by far.
eagle 86,
Your last comment to Bronx makes me think you are being missed by the "experienced and professional bunch" at JustHelicopters. I am even embarrased to admit I go by there sometimes.
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I never got reprimanded by you Blenderpilot? I don't know why I was left out.
The Yesses and No's can fight till the cows come home on the skills and merits of flying in obvious and planned contravention of the Rotorcraft flight manual, some may applaud his skill, others may condemn him ( ie Lawyers, Manufacturers, owners and CAA Inspectors) but the true question remains, is he good enough to do the same WITH A SLING LOAD !!!
Warning, do not try this at home, this was performed by trained professionals using photoshop 5.0.
No animals were harmed during this stunt.
The Yesses and No's can fight till the cows come home on the skills and merits of flying in obvious and planned contravention of the Rotorcraft flight manual, some may applaud his skill, others may condemn him ( ie Lawyers, Manufacturers, owners and CAA Inspectors) but the true question remains, is he good enough to do the same WITH A SLING LOAD !!!
Warning, do not try this at home, this was performed by trained professionals using photoshop 5.0.
No animals were harmed during this stunt.
The question I have is: why would someone want to demonstrate a manouevre like this?
Is he:
1. A CRM unstable extrovert.
2. Reaching that age in his life where he feels he needs to remind people around him that perhaps they should still see him as capable.
3. Plain stupid and needs to be admonished for this.
I'd go for the latter.
It's a sad day when people need to demonstrate their capabilities against all the odds (unproven a/c for aerobatics / full authorisation not granted).
The only good thing thats come of this, is that he woke up the following morning and found himself.........alive
Is he:
1. A CRM unstable extrovert.
2. Reaching that age in his life where he feels he needs to remind people around him that perhaps they should still see him as capable.
3. Plain stupid and needs to be admonished for this.
I'd go for the latter.
It's a sad day when people need to demonstrate their capabilities against all the odds (unproven a/c for aerobatics / full authorisation not granted).
The only good thing thats come of this, is that he woke up the following morning and found himself.........alive
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The pilot in question is, in my humble opinion, is one of the *top 5* on my list of chopper pilots! Flew with him a number of times, and yes he is one of the safest pilots i know.
He would have planned this well before hand.
Good on you mate, a pity i was not there!
He would have planned this well before hand.
Good on you mate, a pity i was not there!
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snothogg, here's a quote for you... READ CAREFULLY
"Irrespective of what a great guy or how good the pilot is. The handbook says NO, the manufacturers says NO, so which part don't you understand?
Everyone in this business have been talking about these manouvers, and I can assure you the CAA has been inundated with calls from whoever has an interest. So the news are broadcasted by those in the know, and what remains a fact, is that the pilot had NO authority from the CAA to perform these manouvers."
Nobody is denying his talent and personality, but MANY people have been in contact with CAA and NO permission was granted.
"Irrespective of what a great guy or how good the pilot is. The handbook says NO, the manufacturers says NO, so which part don't you understand?
Everyone in this business have been talking about these manouvers, and I can assure you the CAA has been inundated with calls from whoever has an interest. So the news are broadcasted by those in the know, and what remains a fact, is that the pilot had NO authority from the CAA to perform these manouvers."
Nobody is denying his talent and personality, but MANY people have been in contact with CAA and NO permission was granted.
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Looping and rolling is OK ??
Ja Gunzzz, you have certainly started something eh ! I thought this thread was winding down, but anyway, here’s another five cents worth, if I may.
It’s quite surprising and worrying how the certification process seems to be completely mis-understood by so many of you out there. It is a long and difficult process for all concerned, where the OEM (= Original equipment manufacturer (I think), the guy who makes the aerie) wants to have as much performance allowed as possible, within the realms of safety. The Civil Aviation Authority concerned wants to assist the OEM, but is by nature, very cautious. And that must be a good thing. Think about it.
When all the work is done, the aircraft is issued with several long pieces of paper which say what can and what cannot be done. These are often in the form of operational limits. For the pilot concerned, these are outlined in the Pilot Handbook, Flight Operations Manual, or whatever is the title. Again, these are limits. They may not be exceeded. Dis die Wet (van Transvaal and everywhere else).
Let’s take an example. If, say, flight into icing conditions is prohibited, you may not fly into icing conditions (deliberately, need I say). It’s illegal. Also stupid, dangerous etc etc. We all know that. We must, definitely, all respect and comply with Aviation Laws. If you live in a country where laws are not respected, you begin to understand where all this is coming from and how it affects daily life. (Of course, I did not even think of Italy, perish the thought).
The same goes for aerobatic manoeuvres. If the manoeuvre is forbidden, implicitly or explicitly, you may not do it. It’s wrong, illegal, unsafe and, probably, quite dangerous (unless of course, you are the world’s absolutely greatest and most wonderful staggeringly talented whirly bird pilot). The only error in this statement is ignoring the problem of how to describe it in the accident report, when your stomach is heaving and your mind is out of sight, you are so distressed at the pointless loss of good human life. He was a good friend (perhaps). It's not a thrill thing, although there’s a fair amount of that evident in this thread.
Let me make it perfectly clear, I definitely have an axe to grind. It’s called Aviation Safety and I want it to be honed to perfection, always, everywhere. I suspect most other contributors to this forum come from the same base. (ie, Helifan, you got it so wrong man).
Again, may I remind you, even if it’s true that “And lets face it airshows are places where we go to witness extra extraordinary aviation manoeuvres calculated and performed by extraordinary pilots.” (Helifan again) it’s also true that airshows have shown us some of the most sensational, rivetting and extraordinary pictures of human beings dying in flames that we have ever paid to watch. Sorry about that, but it’s a personal thing. You never forget. Nearly always avoidable.
Now, dear ladies and gentlemen, not being allowed to do it is not the same as not being able to do it, especially if you are one of the world’s very bestest plots (and a great guy into the bargain. WOW !!! Glad to know you man, may I have your autograph ? )
If you insist and persist in flying an illegal manoeuvre anywhere, you are illegal. De facto. De jure (look it up if you like). And, IMHO and experience, almost always unsafe (read DANGEROUS). Check the insurance implications. They are AWESOME. I promise. Even if you just managed to kill only yourself, very spectacularly, on SKY and CNN plus a few innocents).
Just because you get away with it once does not mean you are/were safe and very clever, it means only that you were (that time, anyway) just a bit lucky. Limits (like laws) are set to protect the innocent from fools (amongst other reasons).
If the handbook says it may not be done, it even means a particular manoeuvre may not be permitted for a particular pilot on a particular day. Not even by means of a letter from a particular person in a particular CAA for particular circumstances. That is the law. And a very good one I believe.
Of course, this is all very general musing and has NOTHING WHATEVER to do with events (or not, as the case may be, AT VIRGINIA).
By the way Sir C, you say “Great Airshow! Virginia does have the finest location for an airshow in the world.” Well man, you ain’t been to Stellies, or quite a lot of other fields, that’s for sure. Shame.
Another thing Sir c. You criticise the Falcons for not flying because of the flu. Big error. You are badly uninformed Sirc. It’s clear to me that you have never listened to a screaming pilot who had decided to fly with a cold, not the flu, but just a little itsy bitsy teeny weeny ordinary cold and later learned about Valsalva’s manoeuvre and pure pain the hard, hard way, on the descent, back to base. Believe me, never, I say again, never, ever, fly with a cold. I have the T shirt. Sounds to me that the Silver Falcons have not lost their consummate professionalism.
Also, you say “I was very glad to have been witness to it”. So what ? It’s like saying “ I saw a blind ou in a BM riding flat out down Commissioner Street and he didn’t hit anything”. I see this type of madness every day in Rome, desperate, desperate. Perleeeze man, grow up. Are you reeeeeeelly a pilot ??? Like watching the rules being flagrantly broken (if that is indeed the case) ?
Hmmmmm…..
Ok, so you also say “I would be mad if I was the owner, gained respect for the 407”. But, Ja, would you fly it afterwards ? With the family on board ??? Always the acid test. Come on man, get a life. Or an aviation job.
Clipboard, your thinking is immaculate. Well done. Thank you for your sanity. You have the right perspective. IMHO.
By the way, Hedgevark, it definitely has been done before, but I cannot for the life of me remember where or when. I still just don’t understand why some guys want to prove the book wrong though. What’s the point ?? “I am a better pilot than you ???” Is it a macho thing ?
On that topic, I remember what a well-known (I didn’t say good) SAA Training Captain said to me once “Luister, oTd, if you ask any pilot who he thinks is the best pilot in the world, do you know who he will say ?” ….. “Me”. Joke over.
Teignmouth speaks wise words too.
Remember, the world is reading all this.
I have never forgotten the moron who flew a B707 of Air Zim EXTREMELY low at an airshow in Harare a while back. Many applauded his efforts but some of us felt like weeping. It was very stupid, but so many raved over it. Same syndrome perhaps.
Bigmanatc – Think about it, it might have been a world first in an entirely different sense, grow up please.
Well. That feels better. Hope not too many of you fell asleep trying to make sense of all this, but I just feel so Ess Haitch One Tee when I remember the totally, totally unnecessary deaths at air shows. So often fabulous guys, brilliant pilots, but just went that little bit over the edge.
My wife and I gave up air shows when we saw aeroplanes taxying through the crowds at FALA a few year back. Ouch !
Sorry if I got too personal for anyone, just old feelings rose to the surface.
Buona sera from the oTd
It’s quite surprising and worrying how the certification process seems to be completely mis-understood by so many of you out there. It is a long and difficult process for all concerned, where the OEM (= Original equipment manufacturer (I think), the guy who makes the aerie) wants to have as much performance allowed as possible, within the realms of safety. The Civil Aviation Authority concerned wants to assist the OEM, but is by nature, very cautious. And that must be a good thing. Think about it.
When all the work is done, the aircraft is issued with several long pieces of paper which say what can and what cannot be done. These are often in the form of operational limits. For the pilot concerned, these are outlined in the Pilot Handbook, Flight Operations Manual, or whatever is the title. Again, these are limits. They may not be exceeded. Dis die Wet (van Transvaal and everywhere else).
Let’s take an example. If, say, flight into icing conditions is prohibited, you may not fly into icing conditions (deliberately, need I say). It’s illegal. Also stupid, dangerous etc etc. We all know that. We must, definitely, all respect and comply with Aviation Laws. If you live in a country where laws are not respected, you begin to understand where all this is coming from and how it affects daily life. (Of course, I did not even think of Italy, perish the thought).
The same goes for aerobatic manoeuvres. If the manoeuvre is forbidden, implicitly or explicitly, you may not do it. It’s wrong, illegal, unsafe and, probably, quite dangerous (unless of course, you are the world’s absolutely greatest and most wonderful staggeringly talented whirly bird pilot). The only error in this statement is ignoring the problem of how to describe it in the accident report, when your stomach is heaving and your mind is out of sight, you are so distressed at the pointless loss of good human life. He was a good friend (perhaps). It's not a thrill thing, although there’s a fair amount of that evident in this thread.
Let me make it perfectly clear, I definitely have an axe to grind. It’s called Aviation Safety and I want it to be honed to perfection, always, everywhere. I suspect most other contributors to this forum come from the same base. (ie, Helifan, you got it so wrong man).
Again, may I remind you, even if it’s true that “And lets face it airshows are places where we go to witness extra extraordinary aviation manoeuvres calculated and performed by extraordinary pilots.” (Helifan again) it’s also true that airshows have shown us some of the most sensational, rivetting and extraordinary pictures of human beings dying in flames that we have ever paid to watch. Sorry about that, but it’s a personal thing. You never forget. Nearly always avoidable.
Now, dear ladies and gentlemen, not being allowed to do it is not the same as not being able to do it, especially if you are one of the world’s very bestest plots (and a great guy into the bargain. WOW !!! Glad to know you man, may I have your autograph ? )
If you insist and persist in flying an illegal manoeuvre anywhere, you are illegal. De facto. De jure (look it up if you like). And, IMHO and experience, almost always unsafe (read DANGEROUS). Check the insurance implications. They are AWESOME. I promise. Even if you just managed to kill only yourself, very spectacularly, on SKY and CNN plus a few innocents).
Just because you get away with it once does not mean you are/were safe and very clever, it means only that you were (that time, anyway) just a bit lucky. Limits (like laws) are set to protect the innocent from fools (amongst other reasons).
If the handbook says it may not be done, it even means a particular manoeuvre may not be permitted for a particular pilot on a particular day. Not even by means of a letter from a particular person in a particular CAA for particular circumstances. That is the law. And a very good one I believe.
Of course, this is all very general musing and has NOTHING WHATEVER to do with events (or not, as the case may be, AT VIRGINIA).
By the way Sir C, you say “Great Airshow! Virginia does have the finest location for an airshow in the world.” Well man, you ain’t been to Stellies, or quite a lot of other fields, that’s for sure. Shame.
Another thing Sir c. You criticise the Falcons for not flying because of the flu. Big error. You are badly uninformed Sirc. It’s clear to me that you have never listened to a screaming pilot who had decided to fly with a cold, not the flu, but just a little itsy bitsy teeny weeny ordinary cold and later learned about Valsalva’s manoeuvre and pure pain the hard, hard way, on the descent, back to base. Believe me, never, I say again, never, ever, fly with a cold. I have the T shirt. Sounds to me that the Silver Falcons have not lost their consummate professionalism.
Also, you say “I was very glad to have been witness to it”. So what ? It’s like saying “ I saw a blind ou in a BM riding flat out down Commissioner Street and he didn’t hit anything”. I see this type of madness every day in Rome, desperate, desperate. Perleeeze man, grow up. Are you reeeeeeelly a pilot ??? Like watching the rules being flagrantly broken (if that is indeed the case) ?
Hmmmmm…..
Ok, so you also say “I would be mad if I was the owner, gained respect for the 407”. But, Ja, would you fly it afterwards ? With the family on board ??? Always the acid test. Come on man, get a life. Or an aviation job.
Clipboard, your thinking is immaculate. Well done. Thank you for your sanity. You have the right perspective. IMHO.
By the way, Hedgevark, it definitely has been done before, but I cannot for the life of me remember where or when. I still just don’t understand why some guys want to prove the book wrong though. What’s the point ?? “I am a better pilot than you ???” Is it a macho thing ?
On that topic, I remember what a well-known (I didn’t say good) SAA Training Captain said to me once “Luister, oTd, if you ask any pilot who he thinks is the best pilot in the world, do you know who he will say ?” ….. “Me”. Joke over.
Teignmouth speaks wise words too.
Remember, the world is reading all this.
I have never forgotten the moron who flew a B707 of Air Zim EXTREMELY low at an airshow in Harare a while back. Many applauded his efforts but some of us felt like weeping. It was very stupid, but so many raved over it. Same syndrome perhaps.
Bigmanatc – Think about it, it might have been a world first in an entirely different sense, grow up please.
Well. That feels better. Hope not too many of you fell asleep trying to make sense of all this, but I just feel so Ess Haitch One Tee when I remember the totally, totally unnecessary deaths at air shows. So often fabulous guys, brilliant pilots, but just went that little bit over the edge.
My wife and I gave up air shows when we saw aeroplanes taxying through the crowds at FALA a few year back. Ouch !
Sorry if I got too personal for anyone, just old feelings rose to the surface.
Buona sera from the oTd
There is no supreme skill required to loop a helicopter, or roll it for that matter - the mechanics behind aerobatics are straightforward and easily achievable by the average student pilot. The skill lies in doing the manoeuvres within the flight envelope with predetermined entry and exit parameters.
I have done my share of advanced handling including looping and rolling the Lynx - the loop is simply application of aft cyclic (with a bit of left due to an acceleration cross-couple). The roll is more complicated but it is not a barrel roll it is more of a flick or aeileron roll.
The display manoeuvres on the Lynx were only permitted after an aircraft with G meters and strain gauges was put through them with a TP and the data analysed. The resulting engineering penalties on the life of many components would make a private owners eyes water.
Did the 407 have a Gmeter fitted - I doubt it so how to measure the stress on the airframe?you can't and I will be surprised if it flys again.
This CE chap may well be a good egg on the ground and have reasonable piloting skills but he is a dangerous f**kwit showoff who through blind luck has managed not to kill himself and others at an airshow.
If he has his license revoked then I suspect it is justice of sorts but if I was the owner I would sue his a** off.
I have done my share of advanced handling including looping and rolling the Lynx - the loop is simply application of aft cyclic (with a bit of left due to an acceleration cross-couple). The roll is more complicated but it is not a barrel roll it is more of a flick or aeileron roll.
The display manoeuvres on the Lynx were only permitted after an aircraft with G meters and strain gauges was put through them with a TP and the data analysed. The resulting engineering penalties on the life of many components would make a private owners eyes water.
Did the 407 have a Gmeter fitted - I doubt it so how to measure the stress on the airframe?you can't and I will be surprised if it flys again.
This CE chap may well be a good egg on the ground and have reasonable piloting skills but he is a dangerous f**kwit showoff who through blind luck has managed not to kill himself and others at an airshow.
If he has his license revoked then I suspect it is justice of sorts but if I was the owner I would sue his a** off.
Now, I absolutely DON'T Condone this, but why is this so much worse than flying under a bridge? I voted to tear the guys license apart...
407Driver, We did the same sling load with a Hippopotomus under our 300C, but we also did a barrel roll!!
407Driver, We did the same sling load with a Hippopotomus under our 300C, but we also did a barrel roll!!
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Blenderpilot, you may well be right, and I suppose factory IPs showing the maneuver to students amounts to an endorsement of sorts. But I have no reason to doubt my friend’s statement or judgment, so I guess I won’t be looping a 500 anytime soon.
If the CP of whom you write goes by the initials JC, and this happened in a warm place with many rivers, I know of this gentleman and his enormous skill with a 500. If anyone can do it, he can.
Just one thought though: when you say nobody is making a big deal out of this, will that include the insurance company next time they’re asked to make a payout?
If the CP of whom you write goes by the initials JC, and this happened in a warm place with many rivers, I know of this gentleman and his enormous skill with a 500. If anyone can do it, he can.
Just one thought though: when you say nobody is making a big deal out of this, will that include the insurance company next time they’re asked to make a payout?
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Buitzenorg,
You are goood!
B407 Driver,
There are three reasons why you haven't been reprimanded.
1.- You didn't make an agressive remark against one of our respectable members.
2.- I respect my elders
3.- You fly a 407 and seem to like it.
You are goood!
B407 Driver,
There are three reasons why you haven't been reprimanded.
1.- You didn't make an agressive remark against one of our respectable members.
2.- I respect my elders
3.- You fly a 407 and seem to like it.
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Well said Crab - you stand head and shoulders above the mire of stuff-ups all seemingly to idolise this poor excuse for a helo pilot who likely only possesses average skills, below average issue of brain cells and an above average issue of luck!
GAGS
E86
GAGS
E86
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Don't know about the conversion - but to come back to the bottom line: This particular helicopter is now the most expensive paper weight in the world. Grounded by the SACAA and the manufacturer (refer my previous post), with the insurance laughing at any hint of a claim.
So who cares about how good the pilot is - in my book he's just plain stupid.
So who cares about how good the pilot is - in my book he's just plain stupid.
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Virginia Airshow
oTd the reason that I say that Virginia is one of the finest locations for an airshow in the world is not just emotional rambling, it is a statement made and justified as follows. Durban does have some of the finest winter weather in the world. The past 18 years of the Virginia Airshow have been 'perfect days'. Most of which have been clear blue skys and temperatures of around 23C and NO wind. The pilots have an excellent line feature, being the beach, they fly at sea-level, the crowd look down sun for most of the day (after about 10:30am), the crowd are close to the runway and to the action. This is obviously not great from a safety point of view but for the guys who pay the bucks (and we are there to promote aviation) they get their money's worth.
I have been to Stellies as you call it and it is a fine venue for an airshow with the mountains in the background etc and I have been to quite a few other venues worldwide. I stick to my statement and am supported by some of the world's best airshow pilots who have been to a lot more airshows than you and I put together.
Back to the 407 issue. Sometimes you are in the right place at the right time and you are witness to an event that may not be legal correct or proper but you are glad to have been on the spot. (no accident in this case - glad!) Do you close your eyes whilst driving in Rome if you see anything illegal? Methinks you will spend most of the day with your eyes firmly shut!
I would not fly the 407 after the incident as I believe that despite there not being any visible damage now (there might be?), my feeling is that someone else, later, might pay the price for this airshow stint!
Apparently there is a reply from Bell saying that the helicopter in question is "un-airworthy" in their opinion. The owner's must be livid! Who is responsible? As I have said before a lot of fingers are being pointed at the pilot, but his display was sanctioned and planned and approved by his emplyers and airshow officials.
Does anyone have any further input with regard to tiny52's post that the pilot did his conversion the day before? We all assume that he had LOTS of experience in the 407 to perform such a display!
I have been to Stellies as you call it and it is a fine venue for an airshow with the mountains in the background etc and I have been to quite a few other venues worldwide. I stick to my statement and am supported by some of the world's best airshow pilots who have been to a lot more airshows than you and I put together.
Back to the 407 issue. Sometimes you are in the right place at the right time and you are witness to an event that may not be legal correct or proper but you are glad to have been on the spot. (no accident in this case - glad!) Do you close your eyes whilst driving in Rome if you see anything illegal? Methinks you will spend most of the day with your eyes firmly shut!
I would not fly the 407 after the incident as I believe that despite there not being any visible damage now (there might be?), my feeling is that someone else, later, might pay the price for this airshow stint!
Apparently there is a reply from Bell saying that the helicopter in question is "un-airworthy" in their opinion. The owner's must be livid! Who is responsible? As I have said before a lot of fingers are being pointed at the pilot, but his display was sanctioned and planned and approved by his emplyers and airshow officials.
Does anyone have any further input with regard to tiny52's post that the pilot did his conversion the day before? We all assume that he had LOTS of experience in the 407 to perform such a display!
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Did said pilot have anything in writing from the owners, airshow officials etc? If not we all know where the buck is going to stop, and everyone will want their pound of flesh.
As Sir C said, Virginia has to be one of the finest locations for an airshow (weather etc), but also anyone in SA who has been in aviation for even a short period of time must agree it is certainly quite a social event. Walking from end to the other takes forever as you bump into friends and collegues.
Recently went to an airshow with Lancaster bomber, Harrier jump jet, Red Arrows,, (long list) displaying, fantastic. Although it was a great show, one kept looking for a familiar face.
Must check roster for next year and see if I can make 2005, at least I know it'll be a lovely day in Durban on the day.
Pilots at our outfit can be expected to send out CV's if flying outside the parameters of the pilot's operating handbook.
As Sir C said, Virginia has to be one of the finest locations for an airshow (weather etc), but also anyone in SA who has been in aviation for even a short period of time must agree it is certainly quite a social event. Walking from end to the other takes forever as you bump into friends and collegues.
Recently went to an airshow with Lancaster bomber, Harrier jump jet, Red Arrows,, (long list) displaying, fantastic. Although it was a great show, one kept looking for a familiar face.
Must check roster for next year and see if I can make 2005, at least I know it'll be a lovely day in Durban on the day.
Pilots at our outfit can be expected to send out CV's if flying outside the parameters of the pilot's operating handbook.