Night Flying and Training (Merged)
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As others have said, it's instrument flight as soon as you get away from the city. Offshore, it's full-time instruments for sure. One other thing I would suggest is to do everything slowly. Make your approach very slowly, so that it seems to take forever. Engine failure is far from the most likely thing to kill you, so don't worry about that; keep your approaches slow, and I like a slightly steeper-than-normal approach, so I don't hit anything while dragging along. You're much more likely to hit obstacles at night, both during the approach and in or near the landing area. Stuff can be sticking up without your ever seeing it.
The leans is an interesting phenomenon. I experience it fairly often, especially at night. Get a line of lights at an angle, and it can seem like you're turning, or banking, and it can be difficult to overcome. At my home base, there is a causeway that angles across the localizer and is brightly lit. If I fly the ILS at night, getting glimpses of the ground, or with the lights shining up through thin fog, I get the leans almost every time from the lights. Here the S76, with its limited downward visibility, is a boon, not a drawback.
Flying at night without an instrument rating, at the very least, is courting death.
The leans is an interesting phenomenon. I experience it fairly often, especially at night. Get a line of lights at an angle, and it can seem like you're turning, or banking, and it can be difficult to overcome. At my home base, there is a causeway that angles across the localizer and is brightly lit. If I fly the ILS at night, getting glimpses of the ground, or with the lights shining up through thin fog, I get the leans almost every time from the lights. Here the S76, with its limited downward visibility, is a boon, not a drawback.
Flying at night without an instrument rating, at the very least, is courting death.
"Just a pilot"
There's physiological differences to be considered in becoming night proficient.
First, your vision has to be managed carefully. You can't just turn your gaze at something and see it. In fact, you WON'T see it that way, at all. One has to look "around" the object viewed, sort of peripherally view it, to see it. Scanning techniques become vital.
You have to learn how to conserve vision, too. Sufficient light to the purpose, and that grudgingly used, is my intent. A day pilot seems to buy the brightest flashlights available. Now, I have some pretty dim and small ones that I love. Dealing with over-illumination is an issue, too. It takes time to readjust, do you want to be picking your way out of the LZ while your eyes readjust? That's too much excitement for me, so if I can't avoid bright lights, and I know I'm going back into the dark- I close one eye.
You need to judge position with less external reference at night. That's not exactly correct- you need to learn to extract sufficient information from the larger picture, as you can't rely on detail being available. For instance, if there's a useful horizon, the inverse of how deep you are into the bowl of darkness outlined by the horizon is how high you are. Also, changing aspects of the shadows around you will be your clues to movement. It always strike me that my night touchdowns are harder but better- because I'm concentrating on fundamentals, I guess- stationary, slow descent.
If you're going to do serious nights, you have to spend considerable time shifting your body rhythms, or develop a strategy to deal with being sub-optimal, "jet-lagged," all the time. It reminds me of learning how to drink- how stupid will I allow myself to be before I hang up the keys? Hint- sooner is much better than later. If I'm reading the same WX report repeatedly trying to glean an understanding, the mental muscle isn't capable and we're not going.
Flight planning for nights is more critical than day flying. The world's asleep and unavailable, as far as facilities go.
Aircraft equipment becomes more important, too.
Night WX has a different dynamic than a day pilot is accustomed to. The WX goes down, down, down, over big areas, and won't get better until something changes it. At night you might not see WX until you're in it. Another hint- if you can't see through it, don't fly into it. It might be dark up ahead because something's obscuring the lights. The VFR helo pilots' natural inclination to reaquire reference to the surface by descending in reduced vis will kill you at night. I concur strongly that a professional has to be IFR trained, equipped and ready, to fly nights.
That said, vis frequently improves after sunset- less glare and light back scattered.
If you're new to it, take some time to fly with somebody who's experienced at night and can show you how to do it. Night flight has unique advantages and beauties. I prefer it, excepting the fact that it's so late!
First, your vision has to be managed carefully. You can't just turn your gaze at something and see it. In fact, you WON'T see it that way, at all. One has to look "around" the object viewed, sort of peripherally view it, to see it. Scanning techniques become vital.
You have to learn how to conserve vision, too. Sufficient light to the purpose, and that grudgingly used, is my intent. A day pilot seems to buy the brightest flashlights available. Now, I have some pretty dim and small ones that I love. Dealing with over-illumination is an issue, too. It takes time to readjust, do you want to be picking your way out of the LZ while your eyes readjust? That's too much excitement for me, so if I can't avoid bright lights, and I know I'm going back into the dark- I close one eye.
You need to judge position with less external reference at night. That's not exactly correct- you need to learn to extract sufficient information from the larger picture, as you can't rely on detail being available. For instance, if there's a useful horizon, the inverse of how deep you are into the bowl of darkness outlined by the horizon is how high you are. Also, changing aspects of the shadows around you will be your clues to movement. It always strike me that my night touchdowns are harder but better- because I'm concentrating on fundamentals, I guess- stationary, slow descent.
If you're going to do serious nights, you have to spend considerable time shifting your body rhythms, or develop a strategy to deal with being sub-optimal, "jet-lagged," all the time. It reminds me of learning how to drink- how stupid will I allow myself to be before I hang up the keys? Hint- sooner is much better than later. If I'm reading the same WX report repeatedly trying to glean an understanding, the mental muscle isn't capable and we're not going.
Flight planning for nights is more critical than day flying. The world's asleep and unavailable, as far as facilities go.
Aircraft equipment becomes more important, too.
Night WX has a different dynamic than a day pilot is accustomed to. The WX goes down, down, down, over big areas, and won't get better until something changes it. At night you might not see WX until you're in it. Another hint- if you can't see through it, don't fly into it. It might be dark up ahead because something's obscuring the lights. The VFR helo pilots' natural inclination to reaquire reference to the surface by descending in reduced vis will kill you at night. I concur strongly that a professional has to be IFR trained, equipped and ready, to fly nights.
That said, vis frequently improves after sunset- less glare and light back scattered.
If you're new to it, take some time to fly with somebody who's experienced at night and can show you how to do it. Night flight has unique advantages and beauties. I prefer it, excepting the fact that it's so late!
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Night VMC should be treated with the same level of planning and thought as IMC. You should also be very aware of the Human Factors, physiologically and mentally. Autokinesis, Relative Motion and the 'Night Blind Spot' are very real during night ops, and have contributed to accidents and scary incidents over the years. But Night Flying is safely accomplished with good pre planning and considerations for all aspects of the flight and is done every night all over the world by helicopter professionals even in R-22's. Why do you think they equip them with interior intrument lights and external position lights? There are many references to Helicopter Night Flying- Un-Aided, but nothing, but nothing can compare to the safe and efficient use of NVG's in a helicopter...when trained and provided!!!!
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Heli Night Flying
Heli flying at night
Recently I read a thread about night flying with helicopters. It seemed that in general it’s not a good idea.
I would like some opinions about the following scenario:
A commercial heli company would like to pick up and transport passengers (performers for some kind of event) from a village without a heliport, let alone one with proper lighting. The 2 take-offs and landings take place shortly after sunset. The relatively large courtyard of a local fire department has been chosen as a landing site. The fire department plans to lighten the area with their spot lights. A twin-engine heli will be used; the company is a commercial operation under JAR-OPS.
So, my question: under these circumstances, is such a flight possible? My problem with it, among other things, is that any obstacles in the area, like trees or such, are not lighted, the pilot could get blinded by the spot lights, it is not a “legal” heliport”, etc. I don’t honestly see the sense in the flight (except a desperate need for income) since at this time of year the weather plays a big factor and according to JAR-OPS a minimum visibility of 5 km is required for night flying, so in the end those pax will be calling a taxi anyway.
Opinions from you all would be greatly appreciated. I'm no heli pilot, just a darn fixed wing one.
Westy
Recently I read a thread about night flying with helicopters. It seemed that in general it’s not a good idea.
I would like some opinions about the following scenario:
A commercial heli company would like to pick up and transport passengers (performers for some kind of event) from a village without a heliport, let alone one with proper lighting. The 2 take-offs and landings take place shortly after sunset. The relatively large courtyard of a local fire department has been chosen as a landing site. The fire department plans to lighten the area with their spot lights. A twin-engine heli will be used; the company is a commercial operation under JAR-OPS.
So, my question: under these circumstances, is such a flight possible? My problem with it, among other things, is that any obstacles in the area, like trees or such, are not lighted, the pilot could get blinded by the spot lights, it is not a “legal” heliport”, etc. I don’t honestly see the sense in the flight (except a desperate need for income) since at this time of year the weather plays a big factor and according to JAR-OPS a minimum visibility of 5 km is required for night flying, so in the end those pax will be calling a taxi anyway.
Opinions from you all would be greatly appreciated. I'm no heli pilot, just a darn fixed wing one.
Westy
Welcome to helicopter flying...no fully lit, fully instrumented, surveryed sites, for us.
Will only address the situation from a US standpoint...."and your point is?" EMS operators do this every single night. A fair number of commercial operators do night ops on a regular basis.
Apart from legal issues unique to the UK...it sounds safe enough.
Will only address the situation from a US standpoint...."and your point is?" EMS operators do this every single night. A fair number of commercial operators do night ops on a regular basis.
Apart from legal issues unique to the UK...it sounds safe enough.
Gatvol
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Sort of sounds like normal Helicopter work to me. If its in the UK, the only difference is about a hundred folks who know squat about helicopters will enter into the picture with opinions and forms to be filled out. When finished they will have forms which would overgross a Chinook and the answer will be no with 487 reasons why it cant be done.......
In other places it would be considered a piece of cake.
In other places it would be considered a piece of cake.
"Just a pilot"
Is the question one of legalities?
Critique of the plan?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with flying at night, helicopters or airplanes. You do want to be properly trained and equipped to do so, darkness presents unique challenges. Nights, too, are different, physiologically.
This charter, properly planned and prepared, is just another charter. Otherwise, it could be front page news.
Critique-
Unless the "relatively large courtyard" is a quarter mile or so on the side, do not try this landing without a pilot directable searchlight.
Visit the proposed LZ in daylight, look at size, access, security, obstacles. Keep in mind, all LZs are smaller at night.
Check legal issues and compliance methods.
Train firefighters regards helo ops. Physically brave, take charge personalities, ignorance, and helicopters are not a good combination. Really good when they know what's expected, however.
"Performers?" Get ready for time issues. If you can't arrange some flexibility on your part, expect unhappiness.
Arrange to have a tactful and competent handler to train, translate and guide.
I'm not a big fan of lighting LZs at night. Mark the bounds, as dimly as possible- think airport- they don't have a gazillion candlepower lights all over the place. Bright lights obscure obstacles on your high recon and dazzle you in the LZ.
Critique of the plan?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with flying at night, helicopters or airplanes. You do want to be properly trained and equipped to do so, darkness presents unique challenges. Nights, too, are different, physiologically.
This charter, properly planned and prepared, is just another charter. Otherwise, it could be front page news.
Critique-
Unless the "relatively large courtyard" is a quarter mile or so on the side, do not try this landing without a pilot directable searchlight.
Visit the proposed LZ in daylight, look at size, access, security, obstacles. Keep in mind, all LZs are smaller at night.
Check legal issues and compliance methods.
Train firefighters regards helo ops. Physically brave, take charge personalities, ignorance, and helicopters are not a good combination. Really good when they know what's expected, however.
"Performers?" Get ready for time issues. If you can't arrange some flexibility on your part, expect unhappiness.
Arrange to have a tactful and competent handler to train, translate and guide.
I'm not a big fan of lighting LZs at night. Mark the bounds, as dimly as possible- think airport- they don't have a gazillion candlepower lights all over the place. Bright lights obscure obstacles on your high recon and dazzle you in the LZ.
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I love flying at night.
If you land within 30 minutes of sunset it is still offically DAY.
Regarding lighting the pad one should make sure any of the lights should light down not up.
And if I remember correctly the CAA demand that have seen the Helipad during day time first before you land there at night.
Otherwise I think Devil covered all the right points.
If you land within 30 minutes of sunset it is still offically DAY.
Regarding lighting the pad one should make sure any of the lights should light down not up.
And if I remember correctly the CAA demand that have seen the Helipad during day time first before you land there at night.
Otherwise I think Devil covered all the right points.
The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
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Westwind 1950;
Welcome to AOC helicopter ops in the UK. Most of the legal points have been covered by the others. So long as the aircraft is correctly fitted, the pilot correctly licensed, a rule 5.1.C clearance is in place and the site surveyed and all ground personell properly briefed there is nothing wrong with this flight.
As for the visibility issue we fly IFR to the same limits as fixed wing, we just tend to do it on our own with the pax grumbling about landing at an airfield rather than their golf club (their much preferred destination) We also (fortunately) don't do it in icing, or if we do it tends to be only once and then very finally.
Welcome to AOC helicopter ops in the UK. Most of the legal points have been covered by the others. So long as the aircraft is correctly fitted, the pilot correctly licensed, a rule 5.1.C clearance is in place and the site surveyed and all ground personell properly briefed there is nothing wrong with this flight.
As for the visibility issue we fly IFR to the same limits as fixed wing, we just tend to do it on our own with the pax grumbling about landing at an airfield rather than their golf club (their much preferred destination) We also (fortunately) don't do it in icing, or if we do it tends to be only once and then very finally.
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Thanks for the answers so far. Since the flight is to take place in Euroland and not the USA (which I think is less strict with such things), I need the opinions of European Rotorheads.
I'm really sceptical about the whole thing, especially at this time of year. It's supposed to take place on the 29th so not much time left to get on-site visit and to get the permission from the local CAA people.
Any further opinions still welcome, and I'm sure it's interesting for everyone to know how other countries handle night-time flying. I've flown fixed wing at night in the USA and I just loved it! But fix wing goes ONLY from one properly lighted airfield to another. It's the legality of landing at a non-certified spot, at night, that worries me. During the day, no problem, but at night?
Westy
I'm really sceptical about the whole thing, especially at this time of year. It's supposed to take place on the 29th so not much time left to get on-site visit and to get the permission from the local CAA people.
Any further opinions still welcome, and I'm sure it's interesting for everyone to know how other countries handle night-time flying. I've flown fixed wing at night in the USA and I just loved it! But fix wing goes ONLY from one properly lighted airfield to another. It's the legality of landing at a non-certified spot, at night, that worries me. During the day, no problem, but at night?
Westy
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Why are so bothered? What is your interest in this?
I heard about this request and I'm interested if it's possible. The other night-flying thread (was in connection with the crash in the Potomac I believe) gave me the impression that most pilots were AGAINST night flying. Now the replies are different... now I'm all confused....
Westy
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Westwind 1950
Not sure how you came to think most pilots were against night flying. Really don't think a poll is required to prove it's not true.
Most of us are quite happy and indeed enjoy it, especially in a decent IFR twin, which is what your commercial operator will need (well, may not be IFR) to do the job.
I'd relax and assume that all is fine, unless you have reason to think the commercial operator is unprofessional. Do you?
Not sure how you came to think most pilots were against night flying. Really don't think a poll is required to prove it's not true.
Most of us are quite happy and indeed enjoy it, especially in a decent IFR twin, which is what your commercial operator will need (well, may not be IFR) to do the job.
I'd relax and assume that all is fine, unless you have reason to think the commercial operator is unprofessional. Do you?
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I'd relax and assume that all is fine, unless you have reason to think the commercial operator is unprofessional. Do you?
I'm just wonder how you guys feel flying onto a courtyard at night, lighted by spotlights from the fire brigade, and if JAR-OPS allows it for commercial pax flights.
Westy
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A few words to the situation in switzerland for non-commercial.
Most swiss-helo-pilots, PPL and CPL, has a general-permit for landings in non-certified spots.
The restrictions for non-certified spots are very simple:
No landings in urban areas (near as 300m).
No landings above 1’100m, except you have a mountainlicence. (MOA)
Minimum distance (300m) to jail’s etc.
No landings on waterareas.
No landings in private areas, except permit from property-owner.
For night you have to file a ATC-Flightplan.
For night below 2’000GND in class G radiocontact is recommend only.
Most pilots contact FIC for open and close the flightplan. That’s all.
For night in class E and D you must contact ATC for radarcontact. No route etc is required.
FREE flying! Most clearance sound as: „Report when misson complete“.
For night in class C you must contact ATC for radarcontact AND routeclearance, like as IFR.
For private night T/O and LDG at non-certified spots the pilot only is responsible.
Groundlighting, obstacle-clearence etc. is absolut your responsibility.
Have a funny nightflight in switzerland ..... I like it with my B47.
Most swiss-helo-pilots, PPL and CPL, has a general-permit for landings in non-certified spots.
The restrictions for non-certified spots are very simple:
No landings in urban areas (near as 300m).
No landings above 1’100m, except you have a mountainlicence. (MOA)
Minimum distance (300m) to jail’s etc.
No landings on waterareas.
No landings in private areas, except permit from property-owner.
For night you have to file a ATC-Flightplan.
For night below 2’000GND in class G radiocontact is recommend only.
Most pilots contact FIC for open and close the flightplan. That’s all.
For night in class E and D you must contact ATC for radarcontact. No route etc is required.
FREE flying! Most clearance sound as: „Report when misson complete“.
For night in class C you must contact ATC for radarcontact AND routeclearance, like as IFR.
For private night T/O and LDG at non-certified spots the pilot only is responsible.
Groundlighting, obstacle-clearence etc. is absolut your responsibility.
Have a funny nightflight in switzerland ..... I like it with my B47.
Crazy Scandihooligan
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Heli flight at night
Westy
Just curious as to what size is the Fire Brigade courtyard is? and what type of helicopter is the twin being flown?
MD
Just curious as to what size is the Fire Brigade courtyard is? and what type of helicopter is the twin being flown?
MD
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nice picture XT244
@MD900 Explorer
it's a BO 105.... I have no idea how large the courtyard is in meters, but it's fairly large from what I've been told. I assume the pilot has already been there to check it out. And I also assume he wouldn't want to risk his own life for any nonsense flight.
Actually, I have already asked at 2 regional CAA offices and THEY both said "no way" would they approve it! So that's another reason for asking you guys.... after all, you all have the "experience".... I assume
Westy
@MD900 Explorer
it's a BO 105.... I have no idea how large the courtyard is in meters, but it's fairly large from what I've been told. I assume the pilot has already been there to check it out. And I also assume he wouldn't want to risk his own life for any nonsense flight.
Actually, I have already asked at 2 regional CAA offices and THEY both said "no way" would they approve it! So that's another reason for asking you guys.... after all, you all have the "experience".... I assume
Westy
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This is the same kind of guestion I get ask at my flying school as I am only 1 of 2 full time heli instructors compered to about 12 fix wing guys when I make an approach down wind.
A helicopter is a very differant beast to a fix wing which just goes up along then down between airports, think of a heli more like a JCB it does a job be it heli med,underslung loads,public transport or just as an airborne platform to bolt things onto, helis go out and do a job rather than just go places.
As to the night flying thing all my night flying is done in singles normaly an R44 and the only real issuse is the weather with no SAS or autopilot you have to pick your nights carefully so you dont run into anything to bad, but theres nothing wrong with this time of year go look out your window and tell me if you can see stars.Alot of my night flying by the way is done on and off a NATO T of lights which in a reasonable area such as 2/3 of a football field is a piece of cake evan for a novice.
So yeah night flying love it oh and when was the last time in the UK you heard of a public transport heli crashing at night??
A helicopter is a very differant beast to a fix wing which just goes up along then down between airports, think of a heli more like a JCB it does a job be it heli med,underslung loads,public transport or just as an airborne platform to bolt things onto, helis go out and do a job rather than just go places.
As to the night flying thing all my night flying is done in singles normaly an R44 and the only real issuse is the weather with no SAS or autopilot you have to pick your nights carefully so you dont run into anything to bad, but theres nothing wrong with this time of year go look out your window and tell me if you can see stars.Alot of my night flying by the way is done on and off a NATO T of lights which in a reasonable area such as 2/3 of a football field is a piece of cake evan for a novice.
So yeah night flying love it oh and when was the last time in the UK you heard of a public transport heli crashing at night??