Retirement Age
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Retirement Age
A dull question...
What is the retirement age for a pilot in the USA and is there any difference to what you fly and the age. Say for example a 737 driver compared with a B206 flying commercial and the max age for a C172 weekend pilot.
10 Q if you do bother to reply.
What is the retirement age for a pilot in the USA and is there any difference to what you fly and the age. Say for example a 737 driver compared with a B206 flying commercial and the max age for a C172 weekend pilot.
10 Q if you do bother to reply.
RETIREMENT???!!*#
What helicopter pilot can afford to retire? Who (apart from the Esso jocks) has been with a company long enough earning a pay cheque big enough to have super sufficient to live on?
Most chopper drivers hope their medicals hold out until 85 like John Eacott*, to delay having to use their meagre funds. The rest just fly until they die.
Bit different from planks, but they don't have as much fun while they are alive as we do.
*Sorry, John, we know you are really only 84, but the silver hair gives the illusion of grand old age.
What helicopter pilot can afford to retire? Who (apart from the Esso jocks) has been with a company long enough earning a pay cheque big enough to have super sufficient to live on?
Most chopper drivers hope their medicals hold out until 85 like John Eacott*, to delay having to use their meagre funds. The rest just fly until they die.
Bit different from planks, but they don't have as much fun while they are alive as we do.
*Sorry, John, we know you are really only 84, but the silver hair gives the illusion of grand old age.
Retirement and Death
I'll get me coat......
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It's probably best not to make hair jokes when Bellsux is around 
Thinking of retiring are we bellsux??? I didn't think you made that much money down on the ice
Hollywood
Thinking of retiring are we bellsux??? I didn't think you made that much money down on the ice
Hollywood
Gatvol
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Retirement, what for. I get to fly someone elses helicopter in the Grand Canyon, St Thomas, and in Africa. All depending on when I want to change locations........And I get paid.
It aint all bad at 61..........
It aint all bad at 61..........
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Hard to tell form the responses but there is an answer to the question.
The only lgal limit I've seen in my limited experience applied to scheduled airline service, which very few helicopter operations are. I believe those limits are in the 60 to 65 year bracket.
Recently in Nigeria, there have been a number of guys laid off in response to customer pressure to limit the pilot age to 58 (now with a near-term target of 54 as a max.
Otherwise, just keep a medical and put up with the endless semi-annual intrusions.
I admit the answers aren't all that precise and they may have errors in my memory, but I don't have any paper in front of me right now to confirm things. Pulled it from my memory.
The only lgal limit I've seen in my limited experience applied to scheduled airline service, which very few helicopter operations are. I believe those limits are in the 60 to 65 year bracket.
Recently in Nigeria, there have been a number of guys laid off in response to customer pressure to limit the pilot age to 58 (now with a near-term target of 54 as a max.
Otherwise, just keep a medical and put up with the endless semi-annual intrusions.
I admit the answers aren't all that precise and they may have errors in my memory, but I don't have any paper in front of me right now to confirm things. Pulled it from my memory.
Gatvol
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Im pretty certain that in Nigeria you reitre when someone else can outfly you............for less money
What a suck hole your in.........
Those customers are lucky to get out of that sh1thole and would fly with anyone up to 95 Im betting......
Take this the the African Aviation forum and see the response.......
What a suck hole your in.........
Those customers are lucky to get out of that sh1thole and would fly with anyone up to 95 Im betting......
Take this the the African Aviation forum and see the response.......
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Hollywood,
Bellsux has only been down there a short time and already he is trying to pension off the other drivers to get himself a full time guernsey.
It harks back to the old union days..............
Bellsux has only been down there a short time and already he is trying to pension off the other drivers to get himself a full time guernsey.
It harks back to the old union days..............
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HeloTeacher, you're about right on the age.
Last year after a lifetime of cheating both the training captains and the doctors around the world I was forcibly separated from the most important part of a helicopter pilot's life - his monthly paycheck. This was from a "scheduled airline" operation. Different Authorities follow different rules (otherwise how could they employ so many experts?); some follow Icao, some follow FAA and some CAA; in Asia CASA is gaining influence.
I was flung out at 63 (still happily doing 840 hours per annum); ruefully I admit it makes way for younger guys and girls but that's no compensation to a helicopter pilot who almost certainly contributed more to his employer's retirement "schemes" than his own. Maxwell and so on, you all know the score.
However there's no medical reason for this, nor do accident statistics support the practice of early retirement; employers tend to use the age factor as a means of re-shuffling the pilots. The older ones tend to be less easy for management to lean on. Perhaps someone who knows something about airline insurance can throw light on any economic factors.
Luckily this happened at a time when I was still young enough to start again; but I really suggest you all bear in mind that you MUST PLAN for the worst, just as in the cockpit. But I don't subscribe to the word "retirement"
By the way HeloTeacher I never had much of a memory anyway; thats why I flew "choppers" not real planes. And loved every minute of it.
Hi Peter, keep up the good work while it lasts, follicles or not.
Right on, Ascend Charlie!
Last year after a lifetime of cheating both the training captains and the doctors around the world I was forcibly separated from the most important part of a helicopter pilot's life - his monthly paycheck. This was from a "scheduled airline" operation. Different Authorities follow different rules (otherwise how could they employ so many experts?); some follow Icao, some follow FAA and some CAA; in Asia CASA is gaining influence.
I was flung out at 63 (still happily doing 840 hours per annum); ruefully I admit it makes way for younger guys and girls but that's no compensation to a helicopter pilot who almost certainly contributed more to his employer's retirement "schemes" than his own. Maxwell and so on, you all know the score.
However there's no medical reason for this, nor do accident statistics support the practice of early retirement; employers tend to use the age factor as a means of re-shuffling the pilots. The older ones tend to be less easy for management to lean on. Perhaps someone who knows something about airline insurance can throw light on any economic factors.
Luckily this happened at a time when I was still young enough to start again; but I really suggest you all bear in mind that you MUST PLAN for the worst, just as in the cockpit. But I don't subscribe to the word "retirement"
By the way HeloTeacher I never had much of a memory anyway; thats why I flew "choppers" not real planes. And loved every minute of it.
Hi Peter, keep up the good work while it lasts, follicles or not.
Right on, Ascend Charlie!
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Mr Toad
Come out West and be a Tour Toad. I think the FA&A says fly forever only after 60 less than 19 pax can risk their lives with you. part 135. Not sure on part 121. Bet someone will set me straight........ Im right behind you at 61 and gotta go to work today www.heliusa.com
Come out West and be a Tour Toad. I think the FA&A says fly forever only after 60 less than 19 pax can risk their lives with you. part 135. Not sure on part 121. Bet someone will set me straight........ Im right behind you at 61 and gotta go to work today www.heliusa.com
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In the US, the mandatory retirement age is 60 for Part 121 pilots. This was mandated by a former FAA administrator and retired USAF general, whose name escapes me at the moment, and was used to military retirement and thought anyone should be able to retire by 50 or so. He was greatly assisted by ALPA members, who wanted to push out senior pilots, not grasping that they would one day be in the same position of being forced to retire before they were ready.
For all others, there is no age limit, including astronauts. I'll retire when I can no longer pass a flight physical, which could be any day. That's the part of the job I most fear - having a health problem that would be a minor inconvenience for someone in almost any other occupation, but permanently puts me out of work. There may be companies which provide retirement for their pilots, but I know of none. I'm contributing the maximum to my 401(k) plan, but it was instituted far too late to ever provide sufficient income for me and my wife to live on comfortably.
For all others, there is no age limit, including astronauts. I'll retire when I can no longer pass a flight physical, which could be any day. That's the part of the job I most fear - having a health problem that would be a minor inconvenience for someone in almost any other occupation, but permanently puts me out of work. There may be companies which provide retirement for their pilots, but I know of none. I'm contributing the maximum to my 401(k) plan, but it was instituted far too late to ever provide sufficient income for me and my wife to live on comfortably.
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attn mr Hollywood and Chinese...
You are off the mark there boys as all I was doing was following up on a bit of beer chat. Really the antarctic is too good a gig to give up and I do need the older and wise ones around me for a long time yet so I don't stain the ice a pretty shade of red.
PS... easy on those of us who are a bit short on the top cover thanks.
You are off the mark there boys as all I was doing was following up on a bit of beer chat. Really the antarctic is too good a gig to give up and I do need the older and wise ones around me for a long time yet so I don't stain the ice a pretty shade of red.
PS... easy on those of us who are a bit short on the top cover thanks.
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retirement age
Now that the govt. is about to pass legislation to stop employers getting rid of us at age 60, will the CAA have to allow us to fly public transport (single crew ) after 60.
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They're gone! No, they're back! Wassup?
I must declare an interest in this, having reached the advanced age of 57 as a fixed-wing aviator, with official Company retirement age being 58. This focusses the mind somehow.
I just met at least one guy returning to work who had, indeed, been let go due to age, so that he was forced to join another operator for less pay and, arguably, worse conditions. It would seem that a looming pilot shortage brought about a change of heart, so that he has been re-hired as a contractor.
I think/hope that there may be a change of policy coming. On the balance of things, probably not soon enough to help me, but one of these days....
As noted, the Age 60 Rule was brought in way back when by Elwood Queseda (I think), a retired USAF general heading up the FAA at the time. There was absolutely no scientific basis for the rule even then. It just sounded good, to retire pilots five years before normal people.
It wasn't as if there were any statistics that showed older guys to be a higher accident risk. (In fact, accidents seem to cluster around two experience levels, low-time and about 1, 500 flight hours, when one first knows nothing and one then thinks one knows it all. After that one usually becomes older and wiser, and safer. There is the odd guy who falls down dead, but the numbers are so low it's statistically insignificant relative to age 60.)
On the other hand the rule cleared out a lot of older, higher-paid guys so that it was generally popular. At that time there were relatively few pilot jobs with the (regulated) major US airlines available, while low-cost and regional airlines had hardly been dreamed of, so that getting a seat at all and then upgrading to command were two very difficult things.
Nowadays everything has changed, except the Age 60 Rule. Part of the problem might be that changing the rule would be seen as an admission that it was some sort of mistake in the first place. The FAA seems to have a big problem with losing face.
I just met at least one guy returning to work who had, indeed, been let go due to age, so that he was forced to join another operator for less pay and, arguably, worse conditions. It would seem that a looming pilot shortage brought about a change of heart, so that he has been re-hired as a contractor.
I think/hope that there may be a change of policy coming. On the balance of things, probably not soon enough to help me, but one of these days....
As noted, the Age 60 Rule was brought in way back when by Elwood Queseda (I think), a retired USAF general heading up the FAA at the time. There was absolutely no scientific basis for the rule even then. It just sounded good, to retire pilots five years before normal people.
It wasn't as if there were any statistics that showed older guys to be a higher accident risk. (In fact, accidents seem to cluster around two experience levels, low-time and about 1, 500 flight hours, when one first knows nothing and one then thinks one knows it all. After that one usually becomes older and wiser, and safer. There is the odd guy who falls down dead, but the numbers are so low it's statistically insignificant relative to age 60.)
On the other hand the rule cleared out a lot of older, higher-paid guys so that it was generally popular. At that time there were relatively few pilot jobs with the (regulated) major US airlines available, while low-cost and regional airlines had hardly been dreamed of, so that getting a seat at all and then upgrading to command were two very difficult things.
Nowadays everything has changed, except the Age 60 Rule. Part of the problem might be that changing the rule would be seen as an admission that it was some sort of mistake in the first place. The FAA seems to have a big problem with losing face.
Interesting note guys...the RIF done at Mobil/Eket Bristow...could make some guys rich....it was done and is being done at the behest of the customer (says Bristow) and Mobil being a USA based company....and BHL(nigeria) being owned by OLOG a USA based company.....American citizens have coverage under the US Federal law pertaining to age discrimination. Aramco had an employee sue and the courts caused a re-write of the law about Age Discrimination.
Some point in time....an uhappy pilot might be able to wreak havoc on that kind of mentality if they get the right lawyers interested such as the ACLU.
A quote from the court case that led to the change to US Law covering US corporations and US Citizens overseas while working for US corporations.
"Congress's willingness to extend the ADEA's prohibition on age
discrimination beyond our borders underscores its willingness to
strike at discrimination against American citizens by American
employers abroad. In 1984, after several courts of appeals had held that the ADEA did not apply abroad, /9/ Congress amended that statute's definition of employee to include "any individual who is a citizen of the United States employed by an employer in a workplace in a foreign country".
A google search or similar for 29 USC 623 shouldl bring up the law that applies. (USC stands for United States Code....US Federal law)
I am not a lawyer and I am sure there are lots of hurdles one must get across to prevail in a legal action...but it is a thought.
Some point in time....an uhappy pilot might be able to wreak havoc on that kind of mentality if they get the right lawyers interested such as the ACLU.
A quote from the court case that led to the change to US Law covering US corporations and US Citizens overseas while working for US corporations.
"Congress's willingness to extend the ADEA's prohibition on age
discrimination beyond our borders underscores its willingness to
strike at discrimination against American citizens by American
employers abroad. In 1984, after several courts of appeals had held that the ADEA did not apply abroad, /9/ Congress amended that statute's definition of employee to include "any individual who is a citizen of the United States employed by an employer in a workplace in a foreign country".
A google search or similar for 29 USC 623 shouldl bring up the law that applies. (USC stands for United States Code....US Federal law)
I am not a lawyer and I am sure there are lots of hurdles one must get across to prevail in a legal action...but it is a thought.
Last edited by SASless; 20th Dec 2004 at 17:55.
