Australia: Training, Licence Conversion, Job Prospects

[PhilJ]

I had 10 hours with PHS out of YMMB at the beginning of the year I would have no hesitation in recommending them.

[2beers]

Been there, done that

I took my CPL with them a couple of years ago, but I don't know what instructors are still there. I found the training beeing very much geared towards practical helicopter flying, teaching to get the feel and not go blindly by the numbers on the ASI and altimiter.

It's a good crowd, good luck!

/2beers

[Jordan3054]

Thanks for the responses. Can anyone shed any light on any other flight schools I should look at anywhere in Australia? Kestrel, ChopperLine, Becker etc?

I have rang nearly all of them up but would appreciate a second opinion from anyone here with experience.

Thank You

[Duck Pilot]

Jordan,
Try Kestrel Avaition at Mangalore, they are a proffessional operator who train local and international students. There prices are reasonable and there machines are good. The other big plus is that they operate at an uncontrolled aerodrome and the WX is usually better than down in Melbourne. They also have onsite accommodation, and are one of a small number of helicopter flying school that do instrument ratings in Australia.

[Friendly Black Dog]

Selfish.....where are you? Did someone say Becker? This topic has been done to death....try a search for aus training schools. Sorry mate but I couldn't stand another slanging match by people who hide behind nick names..FBD

[Jordan3054]

FBD

Like I say I have done lots of searches and found a whole load of flying schools, who of course all tell me I should train with them for whatever reason. And when i email their ex students they also say the same thing.

I was just after a second opinion from people in the know thats all.

HeliRinger: Yes I do hope to work in Australia after I complete my training so thanks for the reccomendation, I will look into it. I understand a few schools "MAY" be able to offer employment after training, but only to a select few once every so often, so its worth a try.

Out of all the schools who may be able to offer employment likePHS, The Helicopter Group, and ChopperLine etc, what do u think are the realistic chances (assuming one has the right attitude and skills of course)

Thanks

[2beers]

Work afterwards

Well...

How brown do you want your nose? The darker the color, the greater the chances...
Telling new students that they have a shot at work inhouse afterwards is just a way to get them in through the door. Sure, they hire ex students, but they are few and far between. Simple math on how many students they have and how many jobs they offer.
Look into the quality of the training and let that decide where you're going. Good training will have you eligible for work in more places. Having an instructor with less hours than yourself is not fun. But the Australian helicopter-industry is very much about beeing able to "go that extra mile" when it comes to cleaning the bosses car, help his wife at home and not ask for money. Especially when you apply for your first, second and maybe third job. Not everywhere, but it's quite common.
Back to schools: Kestrel is also a very proffessional bunch with a good grasp on reality. If you're planning to get an IR that's the place to go from the start.
One thing not to forget: Do you have a work permit? If not, the chances of getting one and a helicopterjob in OZ is 0, no matter what the schools say.


Cheers!
/2beers

[BigMike]

Your chances will depend on you.
PHS and The Helicopter Group do employ ex students, but it mainly depends on the type of person you are.
Are you good with people, can you drive a mini-bus, what are your office skills like, are you engineering minded, do you have a great attitude, and are you a hard worker? They will look at you while you do your training and keep you in mind when the next slot comes up.
I can only speak for PHS, but usually the guys that had all of the above got a chance in the end. Doing the "Hanger Rat" stint in Melbourne is required first though, and this is where you get a chance to prove yourself.

Cheers BM

[Jordan3054]

Thanks for bringing the Visa thing up. I am actually in the process of applying for a work visa at the moment. Only if thats approved then I will go ahead with my training in OZ. Otherwise, theres not much point.

I wont even ask about Becker, coz I have done a search and read previous posts. Nuff Said. Furthermore, I dont want to start another mini war.

I guess its down to the quality of training and what contacts the school has in the industry as it would be stupid to rely on getting a job with them after training. (if it happens then bonus)

So would you say all of the schools you guys mentioned above have good contacts within the industry and would be able to help me along provided I have first proved myself to the school?

Thanks
Jordan

P/S Does anyone know the web address for the Helicopter Group in Melbourne? I cant seem to find on the search engines

[Quick Release]

Hey 2 Beers!!

looks like you kept the nick name huh, i believe we know each other, hows things? PM me.

[spinwing]

Jordan,

G'day ... The Helicopter Group website has sort of died due to them not having time to spend to keep it up to par.

You can Email to [email protected] or contact Mike van Der Zyp (their CFI) 0n [phone].

Or if you wish PM me for more info .... which on reflection be the best course of action.

Cheers ...

[Jordan3054]

SpinWing

Thanks for the number. Have sent you a PM

Jordan

[Miles]

Hey Jordan,

Just to add to the list......... maybe want to have a look at Jandakot helicopters in Perth. They train a large amount of overseas pilots as well as locals. The aircraft are plentiful and immaculately maintained. The instructors are freindly, professional and funny ( even the c/p despite being scottish).

Im an ex student from few years back, got alot of commercial exposure and good advice. Trained with a few guys with bad stories of previous schools, wont mention names, a very long and tired subject)

Visited the guys recently, having a bbq for the staff and students!! Just finishing new study building with plans for new student accomodation...

Anyhow, there are some excellent schools in Aus..... a great place to fly. Have fun

[Jordan3054]

Hey Miles

Thanks mate will definatel give them a look!!

I have heard good things about them

Cheers
Jordan

[LandOnePOBNone]

Gotta agree with Last Third for a change, tee hee hee,

Where are the facts and figures people?
Has anyone got the courage to tell us twin aspirants?

CHC Captain?
CHC Co-Pilot?
Bristow Captain?
Bristow Co-Pilot?
Australian Captain?
Child Flight Captain?
ESSO Captain?
ESSO Co-Pilot?
Victoria Police Captain?


L1POB0

[trapezoid]

ESSO Captain:

AUD 100k - 115k dependant on age, experience, time served +
Fully maintained company vehicle +
ExxonMobil super +
Fuel discount card +
Loss of licence, death & disability etc +
Golden Handshake {retirement cash incentive at 60, I believe}

Anyone else?

[LandOnePOBNone]

Thanks MS and Zoid,

Forgot to add the mil boys and girls - sorry about that. I believe they are on a good wicket and getting better.
Anyone else out there help fill in the gaps and close this out?

L1POBnone

[robsrich]

Australasia still doing OK. Five year forecast

Australasia - five year forecast
2006 - 2010
By Rob Rich, President. HAA.

Today I was looking at the Australian Newspaper, the first run of jobs have been published for 2006, now that their staff are back again. There are several pages of jobs available; especially in the aerospace industries, many higher level jobs for those who want to progress their careers. One point sticks out, unless you have advanced education qualifications you will not get a high paying job in this sector.

Back to drivers: We still have an instructor shortage in Australia. The NZ industry does not have the same shortages at present, however, they are doing well overall.
I would like to share a research paper - looking at the future. Every week two extra helicopters are added to the Oz register and more than one in NZ.

The fleet is now growing at 8% pa, it will double again in less than seven years. (We doubled over the past eleven.)
Australasian aviation industry.

By way of introduction, the population of Australia is 20 million, New Zealand 4 million and Papua New Guinea 5.7 million. These three Australasian nations operate over 16,000 civil and military aircraft. There are 12,724 aircraft on the Australian CASA Register of which 1,300 are helicopters. By comparison, New Zealand has about 3,700 aircraft of which 660 are helicopters. Not bad for a population of only 4 million! PNG has an estimated 60.
Well over half of the Australian fleet is piston powered. Both Australia and New Zealand helicopter registers are growing at twice the rate of the economy – at about 8% of the GDP.

To put the pessimists on edge, both countries slightly increased their rate of growth towards the end of 2005.
Helicopter fanatics will be heartened to know the GA aeroplane world is only edging ahead at about half GDP, the situation is worse in Australian than New Zealand.

A point often missed by media commentators is private ownership. A comparison of aeroplane and helicopter ownership shows that 65% of GA aeroplanes are privately owned; whereas only 15% of helicopters have private owners. High cost of ownership, slower cruising speeds, more demanding training and currency needs, with operating costs double that of light aircraft makes private ownership only for the really wealthy.

In the single engine sector, the piston fleet has a very dominant product. The Robinson Helicopter Company cannot keep up with the demand, and despite this there are 560 Robinsons on the Australian register, of which 400 are R22 and 160 R44 models. The rapid increase in the R44fleet, especially with private owners is following a world wide trend. Trailing the Robinson fleet in Australia is the Bell 47 with 114 and Hughes 269 family at 54. New Zealand also has a sizable piston fleet which is over shadowed by the single engine turbine machines.

Piston engined helicopter are rare in PNG, although the few R44 owners are happy with their performance at higher altitudes. Overall, PNG needs turbine machines capable of sling loading and long line work at construction sites. The absence of night operations and IFR routes suitable for helicopters limits this category of operations in PNG.

Single engine turbine sales now favour the French products. In New Zealand, the Eurocopter Squirrel AS350 has pushed the Hughes 500 to second place. This is followed by the Bell 206. Tourism is helping to boost AS350 sales. The Bell 206 LongRanger, although cheaper to run than the AS350, has rearward facing seats, a smaller cabin and is now less popular. However, in Australia the Bell 206 still dominates this segment of the market with 200 of all models in service. It is being chased by the Eurocopter fleet of which the Squirrel AS350 now number 88. This gap is closing as the French are providing a larger range of single engine turbine models. Although Bell is making an effort to compete, the French in the long term will be hard to toss.

Over the past decade we have seen strong growth in the twin engined fleet. Most NZ machines are single engined turbines. The growth of the twin fleet in Australia is three times faster than the single engine rate, which is very good at 8%. This market is being driven by SAR and HEMS orders, and recently corporate buyers have appeared. Most twin engine providers can claim a dozen in service in Australia. The leader in the Australian twin fleet is the Sikorsky S-76 with 24 in service, closely followed by the BK117 at 21, then Bell’s 412 with 14, the Super Puma and Agusta 109 with 11 each. This very expensive and competitive market sees a new player on the block, the new US designed Bell light twin may give the French something to worry about, if published specifications are any guide.

One interesting trend in the region is the dramatic increase in number of up market twin engined helicopters, predominately in the emergency services sector, which has grown to over a dozen bases in NZ and over 30 in Australia. Overall this segment has fared the best, a 700% growth in eleven years. There are now over 85 twins in Australia and about 35 in NZ. The civil sector now has more twins than the military.

Every week in Australia our CASA register increases by two helicopters, ew Zealand has over one per week increase.

The growth is accelerating!

World ranking

Australia is now about sixth in helicopter ownership and New Zealand recently entered the top ten. By world standards our military helicopter fleets are small at around 200. Due to the fact we have had 14 years of steady economic growth, and have avoided world recessions to a lager degree, this had led to the ideal breeding ground for new helicopter owners. There is an old saying: “The helicopter industry is first into and last out of a recession.”
This steady growth without any hiccups over the past eleven years has seen the Australian helicopter fleet grow from 649 to 1,297. Single engine helicopters increased by 90% and twin engined helicopters by 700%.

Today our fleet sizes are:
Australia: 1,297 civil and about 164 military.
New Zealand: 660 civil and about 35 military
Papua New Guinea: Estimated 60 civil and two police machines.

The world helicopter fleet is 20,000 helicopters of which 12,500 are based in the USA. We have about 10% of the world’s helicopters. However, as we have so many light helicopters, money invested in helicopters is probably only about 5% of the world total. Even so, considering our small population this is an achievement!

The next five years

Based on the fact we grew from 649 a decade ago to 1,297 today then we should see our fleet grow to about 1,900 machines in 2010. An increase of about 603, or an extra 105 helicopters per year. Assuming a working helicopter flies 400 hours per year, the Australian fleet will fly an extra 235,000 hours in five years than today. Assuming pilot flies 450 hours per year, we will need an extra 520 pilots. Plus the normal attrition of 15% due retirement, sickness and change of careers.

New Zealand has also shown a strong expansion similar to Australia’s. Starting with 660 machines today, we should see 860 in 2010, or an increase of 200. These machines will fly an extra 80,000 hours, needing an extra 200 pilots. (NZ pilots fly fewer hours than Australians due the latter’s mustering activities.)

We doubled our fleets in about a decade and will do it again in less than seven years.

Asian wild card

From the HAA’s attendance at various Asian trade shows, it is interesting to note the pressures in the region to get the Asian helicopter industry up and running. Most Asian players look to Australia and New Zealand for future assistance.

However, closer study reveals some serious problems. Our region is entering a skills shortage in all industries, due in part, to the trend to bypass technical apprenticeships and push young people into university. We are now seeing a severe shortage of engineers, and a shortage of employable aircrew.

Thus our capability to help our Asian neighbours may be limited - we will be struggling to run our own show with meagre manpower resources!

By comparison to the 2,000 helicopters in our region, our neighbour’s civilian fleets are:

India – 270 helicopters of which 140 are light piston engined machines. They expect to double in less than six years due to the scramble to find more oil and gas. India will become the fourth largest economy in the world in this decade, according to the UN.

China – Only 160 helicopters. Following permission to allow a Chinese GA aviation industry, the first privately owned aircraft is an R44 helicopter! As China is heading towards being the number two economy, ahead of Japan in a decade, the pressure to get civilian aviation airborne is immense. International manufactures are now building assembly plants in China. One government official stated in 2005 they would like an industry of about 3,000 helicopters in ten years time. This includes 1,000 SAR/HEMS helicopters.

Malaysia – 75 helicopters and only two schools. Stagnated growth rate due to political and investment problems. The tourist industry appears to be a good growth area, held back by anti-tourist Western terrorists. Oil search is picking up also.

Indonesia – not known. Despite economic problems, this country is fighting to remain an independent democratic Islamic nation. It has been suggested that anti-terrorist agencies will be the growth area for helicopter sales. The loss of tourists to this land of 4,000 islands would hamper their struggling economy.

Thailand – 70 helicopters and no flying school. A nation of 62 million with great economic and tourist potential suffers from a government policy introduced after 11 Sep ’01. No foreign nationals can train at a Thai flying school. This has drained the resources of an embryo industry.

Things that can go wrong

There are four major factors which can have an adverse effect on our industry. The US dollar, the beef industry’s health, overseas tourist trade, and shortages of engineers. The growth of our industry is dependant on the US dollar because we do not have any manufacturing facilities, although Australian Aerospace (Eurocopter – an EADS company) has the capability to assemble civil and military helicopters. When the Australian dollar becomes stronger there is a rush to order new equipment; however, due to the world wide improvement in the rotary wing industry, the demand has pushed out waiting times at some of the overseas factories.

Both Australia and New Zealand rely on exports to generate wealth. At present tourism and rural exports are neck and neck in New Zealand to be the number overseas currency earner. Both these factors have a major influence on helicopter usage. Based on hours flown, Australian mustering operators fly more hours than the all other segments combined. Thus any slowing of our beef export market would have an adverse effect on many in the bush.
If we continue to expand as predicted, then we will run into manpower problems. The average age of a helicopter pilot is 48 years and an engineer around the same age, if not older, according to CASA. As a result, it is well known that maintenance engineers are in short supply. The training industry also is suffering from a shortage of instructors, who are moving onto the turbine types to fill those vacant crew seats in SAR/EMS bases. However, the worst hurt is yet to come. The predicted expansion will create severe shortages in manpower.

In particular, the growth of the airline industry in Australia and nearby Asian countries has resulted in our bush based engineers packing up their tool boxes and moving to a more comfortable life style in the airline industry.

Although our tourist based operators are in a growth phase, this underdeveloped market is very sensitive to the number and wealth of inbound tourists. The industry is very seasonal, especially in the hot northern areas of Australia. New Zealand also has clearly defines peaks and troughs. The tourist industry is very price sensitive and the availability of cheaper helicopters with lower operating costs is hampered by the strong US dollar. It is felt by many in this segment can grow steadily provided the industry pools its marketing resources and sells itself with a united front, putting aside factions within the industry.
Opportunities

The Australasian region can easily cope with more SAR/EMS bases, especially in Australia. The establishment of a civilian operated Coast Guard service and provision of inexpensive police helicopters in regional areas should be exploited.

At present, caution must be exercised in New Zealand where the provision of SAR/EMS and emergency services has outstripped demand, and a restructure of their industry with government input is underway. For example, the lack of a police helicopter service in Queensland, Australia is a worthy case study. The state capital, Brisbane has 1.6 million people and is the third largest city after Sydney and Melbourne. Yet they have no police helicopters. The regional cities could also use more ENG helicopters if a low cost option was available. The 2UE helicopter in Sydney (R44 ENG machine) is a case study here.

As the military expands into the civilian industry and the civil fleet becomes more up market, there will be a need to train more pilots and other aircrew. The night and IFR capabilities (or lack of) in training schools could be a boost to those who can grasp the concept and translate it into hardware and business.

Although the stronger US dollar makes purchases more difficult, our training costs are much lower here than in the USA or Europe. NZ in particular, is sitting on a gold mine because their dollar is weaker than the Australian dollar, and they should exploit this commercial advantage.
Military joint ventures

The Australian Army has recently invited the civilian industry to take over much of the basic helicopter training within the Armed Forces. This will be expanded later to include the provision of a fleet of modern helicopters and advanced training. In this way Australia can release ADF manpower to fulfil our overseas peace keeping commitments. The complex tendering process has yet to be completed; however, even the most pessimistic helicopter industry critic will admit that there is one question that remains unanswered:

In these times of skills shortages, where will the civilian resources come from to service one of the largest helicopter contracts offered to the Australasian industry??

Food for though?

[bayou06]

Yankee Flying Austraila

What are the prospects/fesability of an American flying in the Down Under? I'll have about 2500 & my ATP by next year and wanted to look into the possiblities of flying in Austraila. Is the licence conversion a complicated process? Is the imigration process a big deal? Is there a demand for helo drivers? What are the primary fields; firefighting, EMS, Offshore, tours, instructing....? Which ones have the most demand? I work with a group of Austrailian armed forces here in Kuwait and find them great people. That plus the lure of the outback is something I'd like to look into. Thanks for the imput.

[ayaarr]

Your prospects are lot better than what it is for any of us to work in the US