Age Concern: Am I too old?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Oz
Posts: 259
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by B Sousa
i4ig writes: I'm 38 and have just got my J1 visa to start training in the US - just 3 weeks to go before I leave! I'm also taking my wife and kids.
I hope your going all the way thats through CFI, or are you doing one of the JAR courses.
Anyway I know of a few newbies who come from Europe on a visa and finish up their school before the visa expires. They (depending on the visa) are allowed to work in the U.S. until it expires.....
Check on it as I dont know what visa allows this. I do know that www.papillon.com has hired a few in the past and they went home with some money and a few hundred hours in AS-350/EC-130s
I hope your going all the way thats through CFI, or are you doing one of the JAR courses.
Anyway I know of a few newbies who come from Europe on a visa and finish up their school before the visa expires. They (depending on the visa) are allowed to work in the U.S. until it expires.....
Check on it as I dont know what visa allows this. I do know that www.papillon.com has hired a few in the past and they went home with some money and a few hundred hours in AS-350/EC-130s
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually they had their CFIs, maybe CFII and had done a bit of instruction to build time. Both, I believe had 1000 or close to it. The company gave them a turbine transition and turned them loose to do tours for the remainder of the time on their visa. Both that I knew are back in Europe, looking for work and have a few hundred hours of AS-350/EC-130 time....
Tour companies here in Las Vegas go through a lot of PIlots every year. The grass is either greener somewhere else, or they choose other types of flying.
Chances are good if you put your face in the door, you can get some work. Resumes seem to go into a dusty stack.
Another thing lately that has been taking Pilots out of the tour pool is the Gulf (USA) has been screaming for Pilots and have in some cases lowered standards as to total time. Pay is also better.
If your planning on doing the VIP/Charter thing, I dont think you can beat Vegas for a time builder.
Email is good if I can help out when you get the CFII.
Tour companies here in Las Vegas go through a lot of PIlots every year. The grass is either greener somewhere else, or they choose other types of flying.
Chances are good if you put your face in the door, you can get some work. Resumes seem to go into a dusty stack.
Another thing lately that has been taking Pilots out of the tour pool is the Gulf (USA) has been screaming for Pilots and have in some cases lowered standards as to total time. Pay is also better.
If your planning on doing the VIP/Charter thing, I dont think you can beat Vegas for a time builder.
Email is good if I can help out when you get the CFII.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Wales
Age: 48
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by B Sousa
i4ig writes: I'm 38 and have just got my J1 visa to start training in the US - just 3 weeks to go before I leave! I'm also taking my wife and kids.
I hope your going all the way thats through CFI, or are you doing one of the JAR courses.
Anyway I know of a few newbies who come from Europe on a visa and finish up their school before the visa expires. They (depending on the visa) are allowed to work in the U.S. until it expires.....
Check on it as I dont know what visa allows this. I do know that www.papillon.com has hired a few in the past and they went home with some money and a few hundred hours in AS-350/EC-130s
I hope your going all the way thats through CFI, or are you doing one of the JAR courses.
Anyway I know of a few newbies who come from Europe on a visa and finish up their school before the visa expires. They (depending on the visa) are allowed to work in the U.S. until it expires.....
Check on it as I dont know what visa allows this. I do know that www.papillon.com has hired a few in the past and they went home with some money and a few hundred hours in AS-350/EC-130s
This is interesting! I'd be VERY careful here. (Depending on the visa). i4iq I'm guessing, is going to the well known flight school, that issues the J1 visa, and does both JAA and FAA training and will be staying in the US for a maximum of 24 months?
You can only work as a flight instructor on your J1 visa. No if's not but's.
A lot of people will know who I am so I'm not worried about blowing my cover!
I went to the fore-mentioned training school, did the stated training, got the required certificates, worked as a flight instructor (very happily I might add) reached the magic hours, applied to the tour operator you mentioned, got offered the job......but then couldn't work.
Again, it's not impossible, just very expensive and takes a long time. Immigration attorney's can best advise you these matters and change of status, I was told it would all be complete in a month to six weeks...Don’t bank on it!
But having said that, it does depend on what visa you do yur training on.
Good luck
LB
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Norfolk
Age: 85
Posts: 298
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know that this is not what you want to hear, but when you are talking averages not specific people, there is a measurable decline in ability for all sorts of reasons to learn new skills. Hence the maximum age to enter military and civil sponsored flying training was about 26-27 years. Older people develop inhibitions, are less likely to accept instructions to "do this" and usually find concentrated study a bit more difficult than when they were 17 years old. But hey, if it's what you want to do, go for it.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Age: 56
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rotorfossil, that's exactly what I want to hear! Thank you! I want to hear from as many people as possible throwing many potential problems at me, because one cannot deal with problems that one does not know about.
I dont have any problems taking "do this" instruction from anyone as long as I am confident that person knows his stuff. It does not matter if it is coming from a 22-year old woman or 55-year guy.
As for concentration, I am aware that the grey matter is declining but I have been learning all my life and am not ready to stop. I dont memorize well but I am able to replace that with visualization quite well. For the stuff that I will have to memorize (Charlie Foxtrot Alfa Lima Mike ... ) I will just have to alocate a bit more time.
Anyone, anything else?
S21
I dont have any problems taking "do this" instruction from anyone as long as I am confident that person knows his stuff. It does not matter if it is coming from a 22-year old woman or 55-year guy.
As for concentration, I am aware that the grey matter is declining but I have been learning all my life and am not ready to stop. I dont memorize well but I am able to replace that with visualization quite well. For the stuff that I will have to memorize (Charlie Foxtrot Alfa Lima Mike ... ) I will just have to alocate a bit more time.
Anyone, anything else?
S21
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The learning ain't about age, it's about motivation, I've seen 22 year olds struggle because they are not motivated and 40 year olds fly through.
If you want to do it you'll sail through. All it takes is hard work and motivation.
If you want to do it you'll sail through. All it takes is hard work and motivation.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's nothing stopping you from dipping your toe into the study before you start the course. Get the list of study books from Sam at HAI and maybe order them from Amazon. Have a go at learning Meteorology, get some question banks and test yourself, then when you learn the next chapter go back and test yourself on the previous as well. Not only will you be pre-empting a little of the strain later on during the ground school, when you've got all the other subjects to learn as well, but you'll be retraining your mind into how to learn.
(Plus meteorology is something you can practice on a daily basis, decoding METARs, observing the fronts and weather formation, etc.)
Si
(Plus meteorology is something you can practice on a daily basis, decoding METARs, observing the fronts and weather formation, etc.)
Si
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Oz
Posts: 259
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I bought the entire King Schools DVD training series and a couple of Sport's sets. Also bought a dozen or so books recommended to wannabes and also Flight Simulator with cyclic, collective and pedals for familiarisation in the cockpit, watching the effects of control input on the instrument panel etc. (Whether this helps or hinders in actual flight - I'll let you know!)
I've also got all the test questions, right through to CFII for constant review and pass the PPL written exams consistently - although I'm aiming for 100%. The aim being to have a good overview before I start.
I find that the older I get, the less I know, so age needn't be a hindrance to learning...
I've also got all the test questions, right through to CFII for constant review and pass the PPL written exams consistently - although I'm aiming for 100%. The aim being to have a good overview before I start.
I find that the older I get, the less I know, so age needn't be a hindrance to learning...
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Age: 52
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Following a pattern that was commented on earlier in this thread, I am 34 and currently working in IT, and am fully intending to become a CPL - it's the best feeling I've had being up there with all those other nuts flying in loose formation. Someone told me that old light flingwings were as rough as a badger's wotsits, but my last flight in an old Westland Scout AH1 was so smooth it felt like I was floating 
I currently work in IT so I can pay for this - my intention is that one day I will only ever need to touch a computer to log a flight plan and check the METARs.
However, I fully understand that it will cost a fortune, and that I may not be able to give up working on other people's IT systems
- but my wife and I have discussed it, and she keeps reminding me what it's all for when I get tired from my 9-5 (or too often it's 5am-2am). We don't have any kids, and our house in Edinburgh is our pension - when we retire it's going to get sold, and we'll rent a flat in whatever part of the workd we want to live in.
I am lucky in that I have a wonderfully supportive wife (who would also love to live in NZ, Colorado or West Canada - she loves painting pictures of the mountains), no kids, a portable skill so that if the flying hits a sticky patch I won't have to flip burgers, and a plan for retirement.
And all so I can (one day) maybe buy myself a 'copter I've wanted since I was 10 - a UH1 or an OH6/MD500.
I've spoken to many people on the phone from various schools and comanies, and at the various airshows, and after the inevitable comments of "Good - you want to become a REAL pilot" they all tell me to have a backup plan. They also invariably said that the media hype about a massive shortage of pilots accross the industry wasn't materialising yet, but looks like it will in 2 years.
Haven't they said this every 2 years for the last 10?
I find it ironic that you have to be rich to start with, and then progress to becoming a broke retired pilot - life is supposed to be the other way around.
One last point on the perceived problem of mature students learning new things :
From the age of about 2, until you leave the education system (either high school or university) you are constantly learning, and you are used to this. If you then spend time away from that sort of environment then it can be very easy to forget HOW to learn - and being able to learn is a skill.
If you are self-studying for the PPL/CPL/CFI/IR etc etc then you may think you are doing OK, but the information may not be being fully retained.
A friend of mine who took a Open University (distance learning) degree course here in the UK as a mature student had some trouble with this, so what he did was enrole for a night-school course. This course was in something unrelated, but it was something interested him. Having the teacher there in front of him at night-school meant that he started to get used to being in the 'learning' frame of mind, and he found that it helped his self-studying immensely at home.
Anyway, this has been a bit of a ramble, so I'll leave it there for now.
Reuben
I currently work in IT so I can pay for this - my intention is that one day I will only ever need to touch a computer to log a flight plan and check the METARs.
However, I fully understand that it will cost a fortune, and that I may not be able to give up working on other people's IT systems
- but my wife and I have discussed it, and she keeps reminding me what it's all for when I get tired from my 9-5 (or too often it's 5am-2am). We don't have any kids, and our house in Edinburgh is our pension - when we retire it's going to get sold, and we'll rent a flat in whatever part of the workd we want to live in.I am lucky in that I have a wonderfully supportive wife (who would also love to live in NZ, Colorado or West Canada - she loves painting pictures of the mountains), no kids, a portable skill so that if the flying hits a sticky patch I won't have to flip burgers, and a plan for retirement.
And all so I can (one day) maybe buy myself a 'copter I've wanted since I was 10 - a UH1 or an OH6/MD500.
I've spoken to many people on the phone from various schools and comanies, and at the various airshows, and after the inevitable comments of "Good - you want to become a REAL pilot" they all tell me to have a backup plan. They also invariably said that the media hype about a massive shortage of pilots accross the industry wasn't materialising yet, but looks like it will in 2 years.
Haven't they said this every 2 years for the last 10?
I find it ironic that you have to be rich to start with, and then progress to becoming a broke retired pilot - life is supposed to be the other way around.
One last point on the perceived problem of mature students learning new things :
From the age of about 2, until you leave the education system (either high school or university) you are constantly learning, and you are used to this. If you then spend time away from that sort of environment then it can be very easy to forget HOW to learn - and being able to learn is a skill.
If you are self-studying for the PPL/CPL/CFI/IR etc etc then you may think you are doing OK, but the information may not be being fully retained.
A friend of mine who took a Open University (distance learning) degree course here in the UK as a mature student had some trouble with this, so what he did was enrole for a night-school course. This course was in something unrelated, but it was something interested him. Having the teacher there in front of him at night-school meant that he started to get used to being in the 'learning' frame of mind, and he found that it helped his self-studying immensely at home.
Anyway, this has been a bit of a ramble, so I'll leave it there for now.
Reuben
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Over here
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just remember that middle age should be your peak earning years. If you're not earning much then, your eventual retirement can be on the sparse side. Even if you've been flying for decades, you'll end up staring retirement in the face with no retirement fund, other than what you can fund yourself from your wages. I've been flying since 1968, and if I had it all to do over again I'd get into computer science and stay as far from helicopters as I could. Unfortunately, computer science wasn't a very prominent field back then, and Uncle Sam was willing to train just about anyone who was willing to fly helicopters, so here I am. I still enjoy flying, most of the time, but some sort of retirement beyond Social Security and the small 401(k) plan the company started far too late would be nice. I could lose my medical certificate at any time, and be unemployed and virtually unemployable, short of retirement age. It happens to pilots I know all the time. It's still true, the best way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start with a very large fortune. You won't earn one flying, I can guarantee you that.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Belgium
Age: 61
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did the career change a few years ago (also from IT), I have a job but make far less than I've ever made in IT. The flying part is still very great, the problem however is you only fly 250-300 hours a year, the rest is just very boring. Considering that and hardly making enough money to keep my family alive,..... the choice is simple..... Back to IT, a bit of instruction during the weekends, and flying for fun with wife and kids. (Which I can afford if I work in IT)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lafayette ,La.
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Gomer Pylot
Just remember that middle age should be your peak earning years. If you're not earning much then, your eventual retirement can be on the sparse side. Even if you've been flying for decades, you'll end up staring retirement in the face with no retirement fund, other than what you can fund yourself from your wages. I've been flying since 1968, and if I had it all to do over again I'd get into computer science and stay as far from helicopters as I could. Unfortunately, computer science wasn't a very prominent field back then, and Uncle Sam was willing to train just about anyone who was willing to fly helicopters, so here I am. I still enjoy flying, most of the time, but some sort of retirement beyond Social Security and the small 401(k) plan the company started far too late would be nice. I could lose my medical certificate at any time, and be unemployed and virtually unemployable, short of retirement age. It happens to pilots I know all the time. It's still true, the best way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start with a very large fortune. You won't earn one flying, I can guarantee you that.
-LAFF
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Missouri, USA
Age: 59
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
all this talk about going into IT if you had it to do all over again. That was my livelihood for several years and now I've moved on (at the same company). It's killing me slowly. Enough that I've almost convinced myself that I want to fly for a living. I finished my PPL add-on a few months ago and am about to take the CPL written and just ordered my IR textbooks. I haven't committed to anything, but am having a helluva time preparing for a possible career change. And most of GomerPylot's postings indicate that he enjoys getting up in the morning.
For what it's worth, regardless of how much more your paycheck could have been...if you've enjoyed going to work most days, you made the right choice.
For what it's worth, regardless of how much more your paycheck could have been...if you've enjoyed going to work most days, you made the right choice.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: West Africa
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
33yrs and going up.
Working on my J1 as I type and fingers crossed for Oct 2 so should see you there B Sousa.
I am going for the PPP (with Turbine maybe).
Tell you what though, its been a looooong time since I was a student.
I hope the big boys dont give me wedgies like when I was a lad LOL.
Good luck to all.
HF
It doesn't cost to dream ..... it pays !
Working on my J1 as I type and fingers crossed for Oct 2 so should see you there B Sousa.
I am going for the PPP (with Turbine maybe).
Tell you what though, its been a looooong time since I was a student.
I hope the big boys dont give me wedgies like when I was a lad LOL.
Good luck to all.
HF
It doesn't cost to dream ..... it pays !
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good for you guys !
I gave up a great teaching career to fly, CPL at 33, ATPL at 38, never looked back. Its not about age its all about attitude, anyone can fly a helicopter, but not everyone has the personality to get on in aviation. As for the earnings, offshore expat living more than makes up for any lost earnings in those "golden years". Go for it, and good luck.
I gave up a great teaching career to fly, CPL at 33, ATPL at 38, never looked back. Its not about age its all about attitude, anyone can fly a helicopter, but not everyone has the personality to get on in aviation. As for the earnings, offshore expat living more than makes up for any lost earnings in those "golden years". Go for it, and good luck.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Super 61
...but not everyone has the personality to get on in aviation.
Just wondered, in your experience, what is the personality you need to get on in aviation?
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Trinidad & Tobago
Age: 43
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
am I too old to enter the industry?
Hello people,
I'm a national of Trinidad & Tobago, age 27 and now about to embark on flight school at Florida Aviation Academy (US$40,000.00) in an intensive program that will take me from zero to commercial in about 3 months. I'm required to convert from FAA to JAA to work in my region, after converting to JAA i'll already be 28. Will airlines hire me with such a disproportionate experience to age ratio? Is it worth it to pursue? How do I build the right hours fast? Should I become an instructor?
I'm a national of Trinidad & Tobago, age 27 and now about to embark on flight school at Florida Aviation Academy (US$40,000.00) in an intensive program that will take me from zero to commercial in about 3 months. I'm required to convert from FAA to JAA to work in my region, after converting to JAA i'll already be 28. Will airlines hire me with such a disproportionate experience to age ratio? Is it worth it to pursue? How do I build the right hours fast? Should I become an instructor?
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Age: 50
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Career Change - Considering Helicopter Pilot
I originally posted in the wrong section, I apologize for the repeat.
I'm mid 30s, family, with 12 years of experience in software sales. After bouncing around from job to job, I've decided that I can no longer tolerate the corporate sales world. I'm looking for a career change.
Helicopter pilot is one of the professions I'm considering. It was recommended by a couple of friends. I visited a local school to see for myself and paid for a quick demonstration /orientation. We spent about 30 minutes in the air and I was hooked. I even got to take the controls for short periods.
My plan would be to enter a program and fly every day to achieve my Private and Commercial License as quickly as possible. From here I would start working as an instructor to begin earning money, and gaining hours, so that I can build experience for other jobs.
So, I'm looking for some advice from the people that have gone through this. What are some the pitfalls and holes is this plan? Where might I be disappointed?
A couple of things.....
I'm taking a huge pay cut, but hoping I can make a good living 3-4 years down the road. I'm not interested in flying for an airline, but more interested in flyin jobs for law enforcement, news stations, transportation, rescue, etc.
My location is the San Francisco Bay Area.
Can anyone share their experiences? Or, please tell me if I’m way off here.
I'm mid 30s, family, with 12 years of experience in software sales. After bouncing around from job to job, I've decided that I can no longer tolerate the corporate sales world. I'm looking for a career change.
Helicopter pilot is one of the professions I'm considering. It was recommended by a couple of friends. I visited a local school to see for myself and paid for a quick demonstration /orientation. We spent about 30 minutes in the air and I was hooked. I even got to take the controls for short periods.
My plan would be to enter a program and fly every day to achieve my Private and Commercial License as quickly as possible. From here I would start working as an instructor to begin earning money, and gaining hours, so that I can build experience for other jobs.
So, I'm looking for some advice from the people that have gone through this. What are some the pitfalls and holes is this plan? Where might I be disappointed?
A couple of things.....
I'm taking a huge pay cut, but hoping I can make a good living 3-4 years down the road. I'm not interested in flying for an airline, but more interested in flyin jobs for law enforcement, news stations, transportation, rescue, etc.
My location is the San Francisco Bay Area.
Can anyone share their experiences? Or, please tell me if I’m way off here.