Mountain Flying
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 343
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From: airport
Originally Posted by Rotorbee
Oh, yes, mountain flying in the UK. You must be kidding.
If I get that right, your highest mountain is 1344m. In Switzerland only landings above 1100m qualify as mountain landings and that is still pretty low, even for a Robi or a Schweizer/Hughes.
For the Robinson haters. I have flown quite a bit with Robinsons in the mountains. It isn't a problem, as long as you know what you are doing. Stay within the limits, which is the same for any helicopter. In a Robi you can still hover in Big Bear on a warm day with almost half the fuel and two on board.
Ok, that was with an Alpha. Wasn't as heavy as the Beta.
The R22 is certainly more difficult to control in windy situations, but in that case you just don't go. But they are not unsafe.
Sure, if you want to be working comfortable in the mountains, there is no way around a Lama or a B3.
If I get that right, your highest mountain is 1344m. In Switzerland only landings above 1100m qualify as mountain landings and that is still pretty low, even for a Robi or a Schweizer/Hughes.
For the Robinson haters. I have flown quite a bit with Robinsons in the mountains. It isn't a problem, as long as you know what you are doing. Stay within the limits, which is the same for any helicopter. In a Robi you can still hover in Big Bear on a warm day with almost half the fuel and two on board.
Ok, that was with an Alpha. Wasn't as heavy as the Beta.
The R22 is certainly more difficult to control in windy situations, but in that case you just don't go. But they are not unsafe.
Sure, if you want to be working comfortable in the mountains, there is no way around a Lama or a B3.
The two lowest official mountain landing sites in Switzerland are at 1440/1450m (4760/4760 ft). There are actually only a handful below 2000m.
For the rating (MOU), at the prominent flight schools, you will need 50 approaches to this handful in R22, then 150 more approaches to the landing sites above 2000m in R44. And it will cost you an arm and a leg!
but the answer is pre-flight planning and observing DA limits if memory serves.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Joined: Nov 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,752
Likes: 64
From: Alles über die platz
ASN Wikibase Occurrence # 59978
However, be careful of what you wish for, the 'other site' can get very detailed and personal !!!
Narrative:
Crashed in the Pyrénées mountains after suffering turbulence at high altitude.
Crashed in the Pyrénées mountains after suffering turbulence at high altitude.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
@griffothefog regarding the Bumbs her in the UK 
From my own experience. I did my mountain training in Saillagouse (1974), flew Pax jobs and external load in the German-, Austrian- and Swiss Alps.
Now I'm in Scotland and do the same work in the UK.
The Scottish Bumps, the Lake District or Snowdonia are, in certain weather conditions, more difficult to fly then the Alps.
And believe me, I know what I'm talking about.
From my own experience. I did my mountain training in Saillagouse (1974), flew Pax jobs and external load in the German-, Austrian- and Swiss Alps.
Now I'm in Scotland and do the same work in the UK.
The Scottish Bumps, the Lake District or Snowdonia are, in certain weather conditions, more difficult to fly then the Alps.
And believe me, I know what I'm talking about.
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk
Quote : However, be careful of what you wish for, the 'other site' can get very detailed and personal !!!
I dont think anything can be worse than what i already think.... worrying that my dad suffered.... so really anything that anyone tells me is a help.
Its 25years of wondering
I dont think anything can be worse than what i already think.... worrying that my dad suffered.... so really anything that anyone tells me is a help.
Its 25years of wondering
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 675
Likes: 0
From: Desert Rat
Mountain flying reference guide
I am looking for a mountain flying reference booklet. Does somebody out there have an electronic copy which contains graphics, etc...? Any help is appreciated!!!! Thanks
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere along the ITCZ
EASA Mountain Rating
Trying to list all schools where a Mountain course can be taken within the EU, recently came across a FAQ doc concerning the new european rules for pilot licensing published by the UK CAA:
The EU regulations introduce a Mountain Rating, to replace the national rating that already exists in Switzerland and elsewhere. This will be granted on completion of an approved course on taking off and landing in mountainous regions. The effect of this in the future will be that pilots will not be able to take-off or land in mountainous areas with EASA aircraft unless they have a mountain rating.
If any of you wouldn't mind sharing their experience on this topic.
The EU regulations introduce a Mountain Rating, to replace the national rating that already exists in Switzerland and elsewhere. This will be granted on completion of an approved course on taking off and landing in mountainous regions. The effect of this in the future will be that pilots will not be able to take-off or land in mountainous areas with EASA aircraft unless they have a mountain rating.
If any of you wouldn't mind sharing their experience on this topic.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,191
Likes: 26
From: Top of the World
Seeking interests in a proposed Mountain Flying course
We are considering starting Mountain Flying Training Courses in AS350B3+, AS350B2 & B206BIII here in Nepal. 
The course would cover extensive Mountain flying conditions, high DA, Mountain Navigation, Heli-pad assessment, limited power operations, Mountain pre-flight preparation & survival, Rescue, poor Visibility river/road/trekking route Navigation, Meteorology etc. etc.
Landings would be conducted up 20,000' in B3, 18,000' in B2 & 17,000' in B206BIII. We expect the course would run for approx. 5-7 days, weather depending?
No point in getting too involved unless we know there are the numbers out there, and if there are enough then we can let you all know via a PPRuNe advert So please respond here or via PM me your interest 
Thank You
VF
The course would cover extensive Mountain flying conditions, high DA, Mountain Navigation, Heli-pad assessment, limited power operations, Mountain pre-flight preparation & survival, Rescue, poor Visibility river/road/trekking route Navigation, Meteorology etc. etc.
Landings would be conducted up 20,000' in B3, 18,000' in B2 & 17,000' in B206BIII. We expect the course would run for approx. 5-7 days, weather depending?
No point in getting too involved unless we know there are the numbers out there, and if there are enough then we can let you all know via a PPRuNe advert
So please respond here or via PM me your interest Thank You
VF
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 40
From: On the big blue planet
The EU regulations introduce a Mountain Rating, to replace the national rating that already exists in Switzerland and elsewhere. This will be granted on completion of an approved course on taking off and landing in mountainous regions. The effect of this in the future will be that pilots will not be able to take-off or land in mountainous areas with EASA aircraft unless they have a mountain rating.
skadi