Bell 407 down off Queensland coast
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Location: Gold Coast, Queensland
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Boy, you guys can sure get heated about a tragic accident such as this one.
Think about it. All accidents are caused by either human failure (pilot or ginger beer) or mechanical failure. By definition very few accidents are deliberately caused. Before trying to outguess from your armchair from miles away, wouldn't it be better to see what the investigators discover?
I did not know Andy as I left that company before he joined. I spent 10 years with that company during which I helped with some check & training and also received plenty. I have no doubt that Andy would not have been let loose if the check pilots had doubts about his ability. Of course the helicopter could have had better equipment such as a sas system or more instruments but you can be sure it met the Australian requirements for that flight. If the Australian requirements should be changed, then that is another arguement.
Pilots can and do get the leans or make mistakes or get taken suddenly ill. Helicopters can develope numerous problems with very little warning and these can be extremely difficult to sort out on a black night.
So let's hang in there and see what is discovered.
Think about it. All accidents are caused by either human failure (pilot or ginger beer) or mechanical failure. By definition very few accidents are deliberately caused. Before trying to outguess from your armchair from miles away, wouldn't it be better to see what the investigators discover?
I did not know Andy as I left that company before he joined. I spent 10 years with that company during which I helped with some check & training and also received plenty. I have no doubt that Andy would not have been let loose if the check pilots had doubts about his ability. Of course the helicopter could have had better equipment such as a sas system or more instruments but you can be sure it met the Australian requirements for that flight. If the Australian requirements should be changed, then that is another arguement.
Pilots can and do get the leans or make mistakes or get taken suddenly ill. Helicopters can develope numerous problems with very little warning and these can be extremely difficult to sort out on a black night.
So let's hang in there and see what is discovered.
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Engine recovered
A major salvage operation is expected to begin today off Cape Hillsborough in north Queensland after divers yesterday found "significant parts" of the crashed Central Queensland Rescue Helicopter.
The wreckage site has been clearly marked in preparation for today's retrieval efforts.
Alan Stray from the Australian Transport Safety Bureau says today could be a "red letter" day for the lengthy salvage operation, which began after the chopper crashed on October 17.
"First thing today they will be working on bringing them to the surface," he said.
"We believe that they are the major components that we've been looking for to determine whether there was a mechanical problem with the helicopter."
The wreckage site has been clearly marked in preparation for today's retrieval efforts.
Alan Stray from the Australian Transport Safety Bureau says today could be a "red letter" day for the lengthy salvage operation, which began after the chopper crashed on October 17.
"First thing today they will be working on bringing them to the surface," he said.
"We believe that they are the major components that we've been looking for to determine whether there was a mechanical problem with the helicopter."
Although not mentioned here, local paper has reported that the engine has been recovered.
This from 30th Oct. (2 days ago)
Investigators have found a key part of the Central Queensland Rescue Helicopter that crashed on October 17 off Cape Hillsborough in north Queensland.
The chopper's tail rotor gearbox was retrieved from the sea floor off Cape Hillsborough yesterday afternoon.
Police divers and a trawler will continue to scour the wreckage site today, in renewed hope of locating the engine and remaining parts of the damaged helicopter.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau's Alan Stray says investigators are buoyed by the discovery.
"We are now confident we have the site of the impact," he said.
"Hopefully it's only a matter of time before the team can recover the engine and other major components we're looking for."
The chopper's tail rotor gearbox was retrieved from the sea floor off Cape Hillsborough yesterday afternoon.
Police divers and a trawler will continue to scour the wreckage site today, in renewed hope of locating the engine and remaining parts of the damaged helicopter.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau's Alan Stray says investigators are buoyed by the discovery.
"We are now confident we have the site of the impact," he said.
"Hopefully it's only a matter of time before the team can recover the engine and other major components we're looking for."
Last edited by sprocket; 1st Nov 2003 at 12:49.
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I notice that every time an EMS machine goes down or performs some mirraculous rescue almost anywhere in the world there is always a heated debate on this forum about whether the aircraft actually needed to do the job or was there some other way etc etc ????
Surely nearly every time most of us fly there would be some other way to accomplish the required task ???
I'm sure that it is not very often that when a helicopter lifts off it absolutely positively is the only way to get the job done ??
Sure .. if you don't think its safe don't go. But if we all waited until all other options had been exhausted then we wouldn't do much flying.
Surely nearly every time most of us fly there would be some other way to accomplish the required task ???
I'm sure that it is not very often that when a helicopter lifts off it absolutely positively is the only way to get the job done ??
Sure .. if you don't think its safe don't go. But if we all waited until all other options had been exhausted then we wouldn't do much flying.
PPRuNe Time
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Linking current news to original thread
Govt waits results of CASA review into chopper crash
Thursday, 13 November 2003
The Queensland Government will wait for a report from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) before making any decision on Queensland's Air Rescue operations following the fatal crash of a Central Queensland Rescue Helicopter.
An Australian Transport Safety Bureau preliminary report into last month's accident which claimed the lives of emergency service personell off the coast of Mackay has suggested a review of the requirements for visual operations at night.
The exact cause of the accident is still not known but air safety investigators have identified a serious safety deficiency relating to visual contact by pilots during night flights.
State Emergency Services Minister Mike Reynolds says it will be premature to act before CASA has completed its review.
"There would be no hesitation on our part to always be sure to following the CASA guidelines," Mr Reynolds said.
ABC Qld
The ATSB preliminary report was the subject of a separate thread (407 at mackay - by imabell) - direct link being here
Also noticed:
Rescue choppers back after tragedy
Tuesday, 11 November 2003
It is likely to be some time before the board of the Central Queensland Rescue Helicopter committee decides on its permanent replacement.
The service's back-up chopper conducted its first official medivac mission yesterday, which officials say is a definite milestone for the crew.
Colleagues are still coming to terms with the loss of three men, who were killed in last month's tragedy at Cape Hillsborough off the north Queensland coast.
Tony Shields from CQ Rescue says there was mixed emotions from the crew doing the mission.
"It was the proof that we are back and operating, that we're providing a service to community...the crew is fine, back on-line, hats off to them - they've done a marvellous job," he said.
Source
Thursday, 13 November 2003
The Queensland Government will wait for a report from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) before making any decision on Queensland's Air Rescue operations following the fatal crash of a Central Queensland Rescue Helicopter.
An Australian Transport Safety Bureau preliminary report into last month's accident which claimed the lives of emergency service personell off the coast of Mackay has suggested a review of the requirements for visual operations at night.
The exact cause of the accident is still not known but air safety investigators have identified a serious safety deficiency relating to visual contact by pilots during night flights.
State Emergency Services Minister Mike Reynolds says it will be premature to act before CASA has completed its review.
"There would be no hesitation on our part to always be sure to following the CASA guidelines," Mr Reynolds said.
ABC Qld
The ATSB preliminary report was the subject of a separate thread (407 at mackay - by imabell) - direct link being here
Also noticed:
Rescue choppers back after tragedy
Tuesday, 11 November 2003
It is likely to be some time before the board of the Central Queensland Rescue Helicopter committee decides on its permanent replacement.
The service's back-up chopper conducted its first official medivac mission yesterday, which officials say is a definite milestone for the crew.
Colleagues are still coming to terms with the loss of three men, who were killed in last month's tragedy at Cape Hillsborough off the north Queensland coast.
Tony Shields from CQ Rescue says there was mixed emotions from the crew doing the mission.
"It was the proof that we are back and operating, that we're providing a service to community...the crew is fine, back on-line, hats off to them - they've done a marvellous job," he said.
Source
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Overpitched.
Its all about acceptable risk. Flying over water at night in an unstabilised single is not acceptable risk. We all want to do the job but there are times when we must consider our limited capabilities and explore all other options.
Wallaby
Wallaby
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Amazing that they would accept that recycled dinosaur.
Suppose CHC OZ have to unload their crap somewhere. Love to hear the feedback from those who used to fly the 407 when they get into this thing.
Autorotate.
Suppose CHC OZ have to unload their crap somewhere. Love to hear the feedback from those who used to fly the 407 when they get into this thing.
Autorotate.
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Really???
Oh Dung Flung, you have to be joking!!!
[PHP]The C model Dauphin is a very good SAR/EMS machine[/PHP]
The only reason “They in QLD” are getting this aircraft is that it’s been dumped by every other Operator and Client in Australia. Remember this airframe has been mothballed for many years because it does not conform.
The Victoria Government, South Australian Government and the Western Australian Government have laid down Exacting Specifications for helicopters involved in SAR / EMS.
And you if you are so experienced, you will immediately realise that the 365C fails miserably in around 80% of these specifications.
Great Stuff boys, lets dump it on those hillbillies in Queensland, they won’t know the difference, after all it has a new paint job which will attach those sponsorship $$$’s.
But yes, it’s better than a VFR 407, but not much, at its very limited with no Flight Director or Approach Capture, very basic IFR [as you would know].
Let’s hope a different culture is injected as well, or this move will also end in another disaster.
[PHP]The C model Dauphin is a very good SAR/EMS machine[/PHP]
The only reason “They in QLD” are getting this aircraft is that it’s been dumped by every other Operator and Client in Australia. Remember this airframe has been mothballed for many years because it does not conform.
The Victoria Government, South Australian Government and the Western Australian Government have laid down Exacting Specifications for helicopters involved in SAR / EMS.
And you if you are so experienced, you will immediately realise that the 365C fails miserably in around 80% of these specifications.
Great Stuff boys, lets dump it on those hillbillies in Queensland, they won’t know the difference, after all it has a new paint job which will attach those sponsorship $$$’s.
But yes, it’s better than a VFR 407, but not much, at its very limited with no Flight Director or Approach Capture, very basic IFR [as you would know].
Let’s hope a different culture is injected as well, or this move will also end in another disaster.
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Gee Whiz, Mr. Trimpot, what a vulgar mouth!!!
It’s the same foul mouth that got you sacked [fired] from within a well known Canadian Owned Helicopter Company operating in Australia.
Some things never change!!
Dungflug: If your company can’t keep an EP’s serviceability above that of the 365, then mate you should quickly change companies.
I hope you are not comparing the operational capacity/capability of a 365 verses an EP???
Lismore as you know would dearly love to upgrade to something more modern and capable, but $$$ is tight.
And yes the Vic Ambulance, and the Sydney based EMS operators all dumped their 365’s, wonder where they are now?
It’s the same foul mouth that got you sacked [fired] from within a well known Canadian Owned Helicopter Company operating in Australia.
Some things never change!!
Dungflug: If your company can’t keep an EP’s serviceability above that of the 365, then mate you should quickly change companies.
I hope you are not comparing the operational capacity/capability of a 365 verses an EP???
Lismore as you know would dearly love to upgrade to something more modern and capable, but $$$ is tight.
And yes the Vic Ambulance, and the Sydney based EMS operators all dumped their 365’s, wonder where they are now?
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I think everyone has missed the most pertinant point here and that is the QLD govt have ruled that there will be no single engine heli ops by night involving govt type contracts which obviously includes health dept personel. CQRESQ had know where to go they either gave up on night work and tried to sell a lesser service to the community or try and comply with new regulations and bring the service upto and a bit beyond what they where doing before, and sell this to the community. I would have thought the latter would be a preferable option.
Remember they have only a finite funding base to work from and quite frankly do a good job given the financial constraints. They are making a tremendous effort to get back on their feet in all facets of the operation. It dissapoints me that individuals in the industry have lost sight of what was really lost up there.
I suggest before you throw stones at CHC or CQRESQ or the Mackay community you think about how your comments may effect the family, friends and work mates who may read the petty squabling and one upmanship that is going on here.
To the moderator I suggest you end this thread.
Remember they have only a finite funding base to work from and quite frankly do a good job given the financial constraints. They are making a tremendous effort to get back on their feet in all facets of the operation. It dissapoints me that individuals in the industry have lost sight of what was really lost up there.
I suggest before you throw stones at CHC or CQRESQ or the Mackay community you think about how your comments may effect the family, friends and work mates who may read the petty squabling and one upmanship that is going on here.
To the moderator I suggest you end this thread.
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200psi - I merely made my opinion known, same as everyone else here does. If Trimpot has an issue with that, then thats his problem.
Anyway, thats my two cents worth.
Autorotate.
Anyway, thats my two cents worth.
Autorotate.
Last edited by Autorotate; 29th Feb 2004 at 10:22.
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flungdung
You may have made your point, but you have totally missed mine.
CQRESQ should have better, not a 25+ year non conforming [elsewhere in OZ] airframe that has been "Sold" to them.
200 PSI, don't go trying to close a thread, just because you don't like what is being debated, grow up.
I rest my case.
CQRESQ should have better, not a 25+ year non conforming [elsewhere in OZ] airframe that has been "Sold" to them.
200 PSI, don't go trying to close a thread, just because you don't like what is being debated, grow up.
I rest my case.