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Industrial Action Swiss....?

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Industrial Action Swiss....?

Old 3rd May 2003, 20:55
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Industrial Action Swiss....?

In the current aviation climate, can industrial action be justified?

How much more should the ex-crx guys of Swiss have to put up with untill industrial action has become the only course to go? Is it already to much?

Or should one be happy with a job upfront anyway right now?

The pressure is rising.....!
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Old 4th May 2003, 05:24
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Angry Why keep on moving all Swiss related threads ?

Now I know that you poor lads are stuck on a large (old fashioned) island, but the world does not stop at the UK coast line !

There are some major events taking place in Swiss and Switzerland but the moderators only seem to have an eye for what happens in the UK and within foreign airlines which have a large English/Anglo Saxon pilot corps.
Somehow the term "splendid isolation" comes to mind...

PPRuNe is really losing a lot of credibility as a platform for the global aviation community.

Would the moderators of this site please consider to create a "Swiss" subsection on PPRuNe ? This way you can keep the Rumours and News section clean of anything which does not belong there and at the same time this would allow for an exchange of opinions regarding the serious events happening at Swiss.
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Old 4th May 2003, 06:10
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Industrial Action?

Well, one would have to say that to date the ex-Crossair pilots have demonstrated incredible restraint and patience. How much longer can this determination and resolve continue?

Over a period of almost 18 months these ex-Crossair pilots have experienced management abuse, malice, illegality, discrimination, lying, bias, denial of freedom of association, conflict of interest and self interest etc etc. On top of this you can add sheer racism and ethnic cleansing. Finally the troops have had to put up with basic managerial incompetence and financial mismanagement of the highest order. This type of managerial performance and behaviour is what SWISS management and ex-Swissair pilots call "Worlds Best Practice".

No, SWISS, Switzerland and Aviation deserve better. Will they get it? Probably not, especially given current SWISS management's brilliant and successful efforts to be even worse than the bankrupted Swissair.

Industrial Action, as a last resort? Let us all hope and pray it will not be necessary for the ex-Crossair drivers to take this final and drastic action. As each day passes, they of course have very little to lose but everything (their jobs) to gain. These ex-Crossair pilots as a group are being thrown out of their own company because they have passed their "use-by date" to save the jobs of their unemployed ex-Swissair colleagues. The policy of their expulsion and extermination which will be facilitated by the creation of SWISS Express has been in existence since late 2001.

To the barricades....!
Old 4th May 2003, 08:00
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Robert Vesco,

I am sure you are seeking a reply from a moderator on the "Rumours and News" forum from whence this thread was originally moved however I can offer a general response.

As you will appreciate there are now a multitude of forums that cater to a wide range of subjects on PPRuNe. This has the obvious advantage of enabling members to select the forums that are of interest to themselves without having to trawl through a great many subjects that are not. It is a matter of judgement as to the number and title of subjects that provide optimum interest for the members and readers. as a constantly evolving medium the forums are sometimes changed, supplemented or deleted as seems appropriate. There are a few folk locked away in the tower who spend a great deal of time and effort in attempting to satisfy the majority. These changes are the result of ideas, experience, suggestions, and even the odd experiment. Inevitably you will not please everyone no matter what you do ( or don't do ), but suggestions are always welcome.

I do not believe that "swiss" related threads are moved as a matter of policy, in fact I can catagorically state that it is NOT the policy of this site to do so. However as you will also appreciate the "Rumours & News" forum is the busiest of the Flight deck forums. It is top of the list and as a result is the equivalent of a newspapers front page.
Many people tend to post here when in most cases there is a more appropriate forum. The reason often cited ( by those who complain ) is that they want "maximum exposure" for the posted thread. The problem is that the thread may get a higher hit rate, but may not be of particular interest to the highest number of readers. From a news standpoint what qualified yesterday may be getting a little stale by today. The whole purpose of having specialised forums is that the thread might get a better quality of reply ( content or in quantity ) by being moved. even where this might not be the case, the main forums would quickly clogg up if they were not sorted into sub sections. This is what happens in most media. Not every subject can be on page one even though that may be the posters wish.

In this case the thread is a "question" that is generally addressed to professional pilots. As such I assume that is why it was moved here. No doubt if the matter improves or deteriorates there will be more threads appearing in the "rumour & News" section. The high turnover of threads means that editorial control is necessary, and moving threads to other forums is part of that control. Nothing is perfect but we all try and keep disruption to a minimum. Although you cannot see it a great deal of discussion occurs within the admin forum to ensure that the whole site runs as smoothly as possible. we all get it wrong from time to time and even get our hands slapped occaisonally.

Finally I would point out that there are regional forums where subjects may find a more locally interested readership. It is impractical to have hundreds of them for each country, but you might find them of some use.
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Old 5th May 2003, 17:09
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Thumbs down

Industrial action is unavoidable if the managment continues on the current course.

Even the newspapers are on to the fact that this whole swissexpress is just a circumnavigation of the pending courtcase.

Strike will be the only option left for the ex-crx-boys.

Ethics has reached a new "low" in switzerland.
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Old 5th May 2003, 22:02
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Unhappy Jet Driver

It is not often that I get close to fully supporting Robert Vesco's attitude or comments.

However in this case I must agree - any item of rumour or news that you post about SWISS, Crossair or the ex-Crossair, Swissair or the ex-Swissair, with the exception of the thread concerning SR 111 - will not last a day on the rumours & news forum.

Indeed in the recent past most have not lasted an hour, even when it was a true rumour or factual news. Threads started at similar times about some MOL twaddle were there a week - anything Swiss was gone.

Now as an ex-pat Brit I can see a logic behind it, but as a SWISS involved sufferer - off side - red card or whatever.

I mean after all Swiss are not Frogs or Waps or Krauts, they are bankers to the world after all - and we wouldn't want them reporting some of the nest eggs to the local tax men would we.

Isn't racial 'whatever' just horrible and nasty - I mean think what the world would like to say about Bl**dy Brits, but doesn't, because most of them have more manners than we have......

But looking at the otherside of the coin - if you don't like it Robert - set up your own site - you don't have to visit here, it was your free choice.
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Old 6th May 2003, 01:00
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Hello gofer and Jetdriver,

Here are a hand full of threads which are currently on PPRuNe´s ´front page´ which all revolve around either UK airlines, flights inbound to the UK or foreign airlines with a traditionally large ex-pat British pilot community :

Virgin leads! ---> Aircrew Notices (Misc) ?
Co-pilot saves the day!!! ---> Aircrew Notices (Misc) ?
FlyBe - Shaft the CRJ fleet pilots again! ---> Airlines, Airports & Routes ?
KLM and The Cheeky Girls ---> Jet Blast ?
KAL's Surplus Crews ---> Far East ?
Official : British Airways Retires ---> Aircrew Notices (Misc) ?

I can understand that the moderators want to keep PPRuNe clean of any spam/minor news, but why aren´t some of the above threads not moved in the same fashion that all Swiss related threads are moved ?

But looking at the otherside of the coin - if you don't like it Robert - set up your own site - you don't have to visit here, it was your free choice.
Very true gofer ! That´s why I want to know from Danny whether he wants PPRuNe to be only for UK airlines (and a couple of ex-pat airlines like EK,KE, and CX) or does he want to create a global avaition forum ?
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Old 6th May 2003, 14:13
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Angel Robert Vesco


If life has given me any lessons at all to learn from guess the only way you will ever get that question answered, and probably rightly so, is to send the man an e-Mail and not have the 'dirty linen' discussion in public. Cheers and interesting e-mailing.
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Old 6th May 2003, 17:01
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Obviously the question where their threads are posted is - for most writers here - more important than the discussion about the happenings at SWISS! Interesting. Does that say something about the selfimportant egos of some writers? After all it doesn't matter where the discussion takes place as long as everybody interested can find the forum. So, if there isn't more to be said, it probably wasn't such a bad idea to move the whole thing...
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Old 7th May 2003, 17:14
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Those of you still interested about how things are evolving, see the lates news online at
Tele Basel (http://www.telebaselonline.ch, 7vor7 on 6.5.30, or http://www.telebaselonline.ch/php/vi...?do=out&id=90, german)
SFdrs (http://www.sfdrs.ch/system/frames/ne...au/index.html, german)
tsr (http://www.tsr.ch/TSR/TSRwelcome.html?siteSect=5000, dernier 19:30 of 6.5.03)
tsi (http://real.xobix.ch/ramgen/tsi/tg/2...d=0:05:38.886, italian).

The verdict of the court of arbitration will be out in approx. 2 weeks.
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