Incident/Accident on license.

[Boeing Europe]

I have watched a couple of youtube clips recently of gear up landings,I am curious to know: lets say your nose gear fails due to a technical fault with your aircraft and both pilots are forced to make a gear up landing IE (iran air/LOT/Jetblue) and even if the pilots do a perfect job tried everything etc to get the gear to drop,once the manouver has been completed succesfully do both pilots or the PF recieve an accident/incident on their license....?? I was just thinking if this happened to a crew on a summer contract which I am about to start they would never fly again as 90% of contracts require no accident or incident.

Its quite unfair when you think about it you do a trememdous job save lives etc only for you to probobly never ever fly again IE Peter Burkill from the BA T7 crash I read an article where it stated he could not find work after the crash despite his actions which undoubtebly saved lives.

[Agaricus bisporus]

I take it you don't have a licence then?
If you did you'd know that;

a) From all your dealings with the CAA to get one and throughout your training there's never been a mention of "accidents on your licence".

b) From having examined the licence you'd know there is nowhere to record accidents.

c) Where and when have you ever heard of any kind of licence on which accidents are recorded.

d) Why would you not fly again after an accident that you'd "starred" in? You wouldn't be fired by your current employer for a start...

Accidents may go on your reputatio thoiugh but they aren't recorded other than in accident reports which contain no name, meeja reports which often do, and Chief Pilots' memories which most certainly do but are notoriously unreliable as to detail and factual content.

[Boeing Europe]

I didnt mean an accident or incident Physically stamped onto your license, I meant if you were involved in an incident lets say a gear up landing for arguements sake,this would permanently be on your record when you go to the Authority (not CAA in my case) for a letter of no accidents or incidents if starting a new contract they would not be able to provide you with one because you have been involved in an incident regardless of what the incident was or the outcome.

Allot of contracts especially in china requires a "letter of no accident incident" therefore you be be unemployable to allot of airlines.

Granted if you were flying for a career airline you would be praised for doing a good job ie in the case of the LOT crew but the point I am trying to make is if something like this happened on say a 6month temp contract you would find it very hard to get in the door anywhere else , from what I can see.........

[Sir Niall Dementia]

I once featured in a fairly big one. Luckily the crew were not at fault but its never once got in the way of finding work. In fact I think that in the UK only the AAIB and employers involved know who has been in a smack, the CAA ask on your medical if you've had one in the last 6 months, but AFAIK they keep no records. The media only tend to know if you're dead or a hero.

Now prosecutions or cautions, the CAA has a VERY long memory on those as one of our pilots found out.................

[Boeing Europe]

How would the CAA know if you were prosecuted or cautioned by the police...? its nothing to do with them, no..? I thought only airlines ask about criminal records cautions prosecutions etc etc

[Reverserbucket]

I believe were talking about CAA prosecutions and cautions. I used to be aquainted with a former head of legal enforcement at the CAA and I can vouch for the long memory comment.

[Boeing Europe]

excuse my ignorence but I was not aware the CAA had a legal department..?? Can you give an example of how one could be cautioned or prosecuted by the CAA.....?

[Spitoon]

For infringing some legislation which the CAA is responsible for enforcing - typically ANO, Rules of the Air or somesuch.

[Sir Niall Dementia]

BoeingEurope;

The UK CAA have a very active legal/enforcement dept mainly staffed by ex-coppers.

I fell foul of them some years ago, and despite great mitigation offered by my employer and a passenger I decided to accept a caution rather than fight through the courts with threats of huge costs from the CAA.

That caution will remain on my CAA record for the rest of my flying life.

When the CAA man came to issue my caution and for me to sign the rather imposing certificate all the pilots in the company formed a guard of honour and escorted me to the desk.

The CAA man saw the funny side of that, but believe me you NEVER want to be interviewed by them, if you are take a bloody good lawyer.

[PT6A]

Just ask the skipper of BAW038...... When he decided to look for work outside BA, his accident was a total bar.

Most jobs (especially contract) require you to obtain a certified letter from your NAA that you have not been involved in an accident / incident.

[Legalapproach]

Under the amendments to the Rehabilitation of Offender's Act a caution becomes spent at the time it is given and a conditional caution becomes spent 3 months after it is given.

[Sir Niall Dementia]

Legal Approach;

Thanks for posting that, I may see if there is a way my record can be cleared. The caution I was given (headed Formal Caution) apparently will lie on my file and reappear if I sin again.

[Boeing Europe]

I take it a caution would not affect your ability to find another job....? as you would simply just not tell a new airline however an accident or incident is different because you have to show a lett from the relevant authority you have not had one,I have never seen "no caution prosecutions"

[Sir Niall Dementia]

My caution is framed on my office wall: and I'm with a different employer to the one at the time.

SND