Have you ever known both pilots fallen asleep at the controls?
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er....Woodentop; where exactly are the insults in my posts? I merely state an observation and opinion, never insulted the gentleman. He's entitled to his opinion, I'm entitled to point out where I disagree. If I choose to suggest other user names, is that an insult? I thought it was quite subtle.
Sorry, but life is way too short to take offence....
Night night...
edit...
oops... and the edit is to point out that I actually answered his question in my post. More than you did, my wooden friend.
Also, I never referred to anyone as a "w star star star star star -ers," (unlike you) whatever that means.
That line about insulting people... run it by me just one more time, please; I obviously don't understand what an insult is....
Sweet dreams.. don't let the woodworm bite!
[This message has been edited by Alien Shores (edited 21 March 2001).]
Sorry, but life is way too short to take offence....
Night night...
edit...
oops... and the edit is to point out that I actually answered his question in my post. More than you did, my wooden friend.
Also, I never referred to anyone as a "w star star star star star -ers," (unlike you) whatever that means.
That line about insulting people... run it by me just one more time, please; I obviously don't understand what an insult is....
Sweet dreams.. don't let the woodworm bite!
[This message has been edited by Alien Shores (edited 21 March 2001).]
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SpeedBird22,
Good point, but the reason I expressly stated that I was not a journalist was that someone would have at some point in time probably questioned it. I'm just a good old student thinking I might get informative comment to a legitimate question: which I did and for which I'm grateful.
Cheers,
Cosmo
P.S this reply is not intended to be defensive nor critical of SpeedBird22's reply above.
Good point, but the reason I expressly stated that I was not a journalist was that someone would have at some point in time probably questioned it. I'm just a good old student thinking I might get informative comment to a legitimate question: which I did and for which I'm grateful.
Cheers,
Cosmo
P.S this reply is not intended to be defensive nor critical of SpeedBird22's reply above.
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Right. Hello its me again. Just a couple of points to make before I get a brew on and get back to the TV. 
1) I think it is quite amusing that a thread titled 'Have you ever known both pilots to fall asleep at the controls' has turned into a full on journo debate. Hehe.
2) AffirmBrest - I fully appreciate that you have been around for a while and most likely know exactly what you are talking about. However, just like you can smell a journalist, I'm beginning to pick up the scent of a bit of an old boy network going on here. "BAW22 IS a real wannabe" - Don't you think its taking this whole thing a bit far when we start scrutinising other peoples details and decide they aren't genuine and don't deserve a normal answer? One of my first posts here was a question about engine failures. I got a great response and went away happy. Lets just keep it that way and (without sounding like I'm a preacher) treat everyone as equals. Please don't think I'm having a go, as I realise you made good in your last post
3)Cosmo - G'evening buddy. I agree with what you're saying...just picked it out as an example
But (are you all bored yet??) I find it a bit sad when we have to include disclaimers in our post like "I'm not a journo" and in particular "this reply is not intended to defensive nor critical etc etc". I realise you're probably joking but this leads me nicely onto my final point. I don't have any authority to say it at all and please don't hate me but I hope this'll be the end of it:
*** ENOUGH paranoia about journalists.
Enough arguing over whether someone was
insulted or whether they have the right
to have a seemingly legit question
answered in a mature way. I really feel
people take this site too seriously. It
IS important, but hey, focus on your
flying rather than typing or arguing
skills! ***
I rest my case. Have fun.
SpeedBird22
1) I think it is quite amusing that a thread titled 'Have you ever known both pilots to fall asleep at the controls' has turned into a full on journo debate. Hehe.
2) AffirmBrest - I fully appreciate that you have been around for a while and most likely know exactly what you are talking about. However, just like you can smell a journalist, I'm beginning to pick up the scent of a bit of an old boy network going on here. "BAW22 IS a real wannabe" - Don't you think its taking this whole thing a bit far when we start scrutinising other peoples details and decide they aren't genuine and don't deserve a normal answer? One of my first posts here was a question about engine failures. I got a great response and went away happy. Lets just keep it that way and (without sounding like I'm a preacher) treat everyone as equals. Please don't think I'm having a go, as I realise you made good in your last post
3)Cosmo - G'evening buddy. I agree with what you're saying...just picked it out as an example
But (are you all bored yet??) I find it a bit sad when we have to include disclaimers in our post like "I'm not a journo" and in particular "this reply is not intended to defensive nor critical etc etc". I realise you're probably joking but this leads me nicely onto my final point. I don't have any authority to say it at all and please don't hate me but I hope this'll be the end of it:
*** ENOUGH paranoia about journalists.
Enough arguing over whether someone was
insulted or whether they have the right
to have a seemingly legit question
answered in a mature way. I really feel
people take this site too seriously. It
IS important, but hey, focus on your
flying rather than typing or arguing
skills! ***
I rest my case. Have fun.
SpeedBird22
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BAW22 - No sign at all of an old boy network from where I'm sitting - when I mentioned that I believed you were a 'geniuine' wannabe (please don't take offence - I wuz won wunce) I meant to illustrate to Stroppalot that there were polite and humble ways to phrase a query which lend themselves somewhat better to a polite and humble response. I have explained the reasons behind the initial reactions to some of SLs posts, and apologised if those were misplaced.
If someone asks me a question, fine. I reserve the right not to answer, if I am at all sceptical of their credentials or motivation for asking. Once their credentials are established, I will answer to the best of my knowledge and free time.
The effort required to establish ones credentials, however, will vary from person to person and question to question - and the manner in which the poster subsequently responds will affect future replies and may even draw others to their own conclusions. Much like a 'real' conversation. That's how it goes.
I am a personal aquaintaince of one the 'infamous' BA pilots who were unjustly (IMHO) sacked thanks to a muck-raking journalist. My scepticism on this matter can be understood. No further explanation needed.
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...proceeding below Decision Height with CAUTION...
If someone asks me a question, fine. I reserve the right not to answer, if I am at all sceptical of their credentials or motivation for asking. Once their credentials are established, I will answer to the best of my knowledge and free time.
The effort required to establish ones credentials, however, will vary from person to person and question to question - and the manner in which the poster subsequently responds will affect future replies and may even draw others to their own conclusions. Much like a 'real' conversation. That's how it goes.
I am a personal aquaintaince of one the 'infamous' BA pilots who were unjustly (IMHO) sacked thanks to a muck-raking journalist. My scepticism on this matter can be understood. No further explanation needed.
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...proceeding below Decision Height with CAUTION...
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Jouno or not somewhere out there in the distant past is a reference to this problem, so do a bit of home work.
A long haul captain openly reported he woke up to find he was the only person awake on the flight deck.
Probably a long time ago as I seem to remember he was in an area which is nowdays avoided.
A long haul captain openly reported he woke up to find he was the only person awake on the flight deck.
Probably a long time ago as I seem to remember he was in an area which is nowdays avoided.
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I had just finished my F/E checkride that evening, my IOE instructor recognized that I was very tired and offered to take the trip out(I would observe). At top of climb the CA fell asleep with head on the back of his chair. The FO fell asleep with his head up against the glare shield and the SO (IOE instructor) kept falling asleep and almost hitting his head on the desk. I was the only one awake, but I didn't have a mic at the JS station. Personally, I prefer that the naps are planned and one-at-a-time.
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It happened to me once ( I was a Cabin chief), after a 24 hours LH layover following a 2 sectors O/B, and during the 2 sectors I/B night flight, to find both pilots asleep. The FO was on his planned nap hour, and the CPT just fell asleep. I was embarrassed for him, and I asked him loud if he needed some coffee too wake him up.
Of course you must know as a FA, that those things may happen when pilots (and FA)are treated like robots and not human beings, and check on the FD more often (thing that helps you too to remain awake!).
Of course you must know as a FA, that those things may happen when pilots (and FA)are treated like robots and not human beings, and check on the FD more often (thing that helps you too to remain awake!).
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Back in the early seventies an entire Vulcan crew (5 people maybe plus a crew chief) fell asleep on the way back across the Atlantic after a very heavy few nights at the Goose. They eventually woke up to find they'd coasted-in to the UK on the wrong side of Ireland (south of it instead of north). Needless to say all of them were wide awake the next day when they had a very one-sided conversation with AOC 1 Group!
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Stroppalot,
In answer to your initial question AA pilots are notorious for falling asleep at the wheel so to speak because they generally work v.long hrs -especially the MD 80 crew.The crash in june '99 in little Rock was due to 'pilot fatigue' - a nice way of saying that both guys (incl capt Bushmann)was very tired after a near 14 hr shift - bloody awful if you ask me,but hey thats America for you.Thats why they get paid so much;so they can be worked like slaves.
In answer to your initial question AA pilots are notorious for falling asleep at the wheel so to speak because they generally work v.long hrs -especially the MD 80 crew.The crash in june '99 in little Rock was due to 'pilot fatigue' - a nice way of saying that both guys (incl capt Bushmann)was very tired after a near 14 hr shift - bloody awful if you ask me,but hey thats America for you.Thats why they get paid so much;so they can be worked like slaves.
