why is it that....
Registered User **
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: -
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
why is it that....
... all the credit seems to be showered upon the bloke on the left seat while the chap on the right seat seems to be almost left at sea, when it comes to incidents/accidents like the hudson issue today?
by all means it is a two man operation to start with and what is so shocking to note, is that hardly anything was mentioned about the first officer, or the senior first officer in this case as it may have been.
all credit to the 4 bars and given the circumstances i guess it was down to out of the box, cut the crap short kind of stuff and they must have gone with their gut so as to speak.
still not clear as to who was the pilot handling/flying or what ever airbooos calls it, and i think any mention of the crew should definitely include the F/O or the SF/O as well. it was nice and refreshing to hear the skipper of the BA 777 that went on a glide and cut the grass, mention not only his senior first officer who was handling pilot , but also the first officer on safety/relief duty who was on the jumpseat, at the press briefing after the fiasco.
truly shows the class and professionalism of the skipper and i would think the same must have applied here in this case as well.
but the press as always, and the campers at the back at most, almost always congradulate and cheer and mention of the captain or the pilot, as opposed to both the guys up the pointy end.
must be properly addressed to these clowns that, in an airline environment it is not just the 4 bars that take the cake but the 3 or 2 bars next to it as well, since its a one for all all for one mentality that we have been grilled with.
hope this wasn't long and by no means sour grapes here or anything, but just wanted to get your views and imputs into this rather forgotten side of things so as to put it...
all yours guys...and 2 thumbs up to the crew, on a textbook watery ditching with a postcard watery picture
by all means it is a two man operation to start with and what is so shocking to note, is that hardly anything was mentioned about the first officer, or the senior first officer in this case as it may have been.
all credit to the 4 bars and given the circumstances i guess it was down to out of the box, cut the crap short kind of stuff and they must have gone with their gut so as to speak.
still not clear as to who was the pilot handling/flying or what ever airbooos calls it, and i think any mention of the crew should definitely include the F/O or the SF/O as well. it was nice and refreshing to hear the skipper of the BA 777 that went on a glide and cut the grass, mention not only his senior first officer who was handling pilot , but also the first officer on safety/relief duty who was on the jumpseat, at the press briefing after the fiasco.
truly shows the class and professionalism of the skipper and i would think the same must have applied here in this case as well.
but the press as always, and the campers at the back at most, almost always congradulate and cheer and mention of the captain or the pilot, as opposed to both the guys up the pointy end.
must be properly addressed to these clowns that, in an airline environment it is not just the 4 bars that take the cake but the 3 or 2 bars next to it as well, since its a one for all all for one mentality that we have been grilled with.
hope this wasn't long and by no means sour grapes here or anything, but just wanted to get your views and imputs into this rather forgotten side of things so as to put it...
all yours guys...and 2 thumbs up to the crew, on a textbook watery ditching with a postcard watery picture
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: WILTS
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bit like the soux City DC10 incident, bloke who did the most work was a positioning pilot who was sat down the back, came up front to offer any help and was him that pointed out they had lost all hydraulics, and then came up with the idea of using centre and pod engine power to adjust the pitch, not the bloke in the left seat
Interesting debate on Radio 2 as to is the bloke a "hero" or not, and was he not just doing what he gets paid for? Nobody doubting the crew did a blody good job in putting it down safe, but does that make him a hero? is ditching in the annual sim check for the company i wonder? bet it is from now on!
No mention of the cabin crew! they are the ones that look after back end after the thing came to a halt! Thing is they are not ex military and dont have the interesting name!!!!
Interesting debate on Radio 2 as to is the bloke a "hero" or not, and was he not just doing what he gets paid for? Nobody doubting the crew did a blody good job in putting it down safe, but does that make him a hero? is ditching in the annual sim check for the company i wonder? bet it is from now on!
No mention of the cabin crew! they are the ones that look after back end after the thing came to a halt! Thing is they are not ex military and dont have the interesting name!!!!
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It all comes down to....just whom is in charge.
He (or she) gets the kudos if it all goes according to plan, and the lumps if it does not.
Ain't gonna change.
In this (seemingly) day and age, where these MCC courses teach everyone is equal
, incidents like this one on the Hudson definitely prove quite the opposite.
This ain't gonna change, either.
In other words (and yes, I know a few won't like it), co-pilots, dime a dozen, really skilled Commanders, few and far between.
He (or she) gets the kudos if it all goes according to plan, and the lumps if it does not.
Ain't gonna change.
In this (seemingly) day and age, where these MCC courses teach everyone is equal
, incidents like this one on the Hudson definitely prove quite the opposite.This ain't gonna change, either.
In other words (and yes, I know a few won't like it), co-pilots, dime a dozen, really skilled Commanders, few and far between.
Registered User **
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: -
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
funnel cloud...
mate, who gives a toss if i am a first officer, second officer, junior first officer, relief, safety, 4 stripes, no stripes, stripes with a star ... it wasn't part of the plan on shifting focus.
it was just a discussion to have a look at how the folks at the print and the campers at the back have this rather short and stunted look on things when put through hell and back, as it must have been in this case.
if it was the first officer or who ever who handled it, all tops to him, and rightly so too..but the word" hero" and fan clubs popping all over the joint just for one bloke seems to be a bit odd, don't you think?
well its my 0.5 cents worth...
mate, who gives a toss if i am a first officer, second officer, junior first officer, relief, safety, 4 stripes, no stripes, stripes with a star ... it wasn't part of the plan on shifting focus.
it was just a discussion to have a look at how the folks at the print and the campers at the back have this rather short and stunted look on things when put through hell and back, as it must have been in this case.
if it was the first officer or who ever who handled it, all tops to him, and rightly so too..but the word" hero" and fan clubs popping all over the joint just for one bloke seems to be a bit odd, don't you think?
well its my 0.5 cents worth...
Registered User **
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: -
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nevertheless...equal amount of credit to BOTH the left and right seat, and just to iron out a few creases here for the likes of the dinosaurs who like to think that they are God's gift to flying, if the **** hits the fan, BOTH the guys get the kitchen sink, regardless of 4 or 3/2 stripes. likewise, if they pull it off as brilliantly as in this case, then BOTH the guys SHOULD get the cake with the cherries on top and the icing to go with it too. they can have and eat the whole bloody thing together, that's what they were put there for, not for a single jingle " i can do it all type of guy " who needn't have a F/O with him them in the first place.
let him fly FiFi around alone then and lets have a laugh
CRM/MCC is about making you work together while making the best out of a rather hopeless situation and the last thing we would want is a Quadrosauntaus who thinks he can pull it all off without the scrapes...mate you know i'm talking to you, give it up and take a break..lots of lovely islands in this part of the world, you should seriously think about it..and get a ship please next time round...fly safe and keep smiling
let him fly FiFi around alone then and lets have a laugh
CRM/MCC is about making you work together while making the best out of a rather hopeless situation and the last thing we would want is a Quadrosauntaus who thinks he can pull it all off without the scrapes...mate you know i'm talking to you, give it up and take a break..lots of lovely islands in this part of the world, you should seriously think about it..and get a ship please next time round...fly safe and keep smiling
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...but the word" hero" and fan clubs popping all over the joint just for one bloke seems to be a bit odd, don't you think?
"Hero' is, in my opinion, well overused in the media today.
The Captain was just doing his job...nothing more nor less.
It did actually turn out quite well, however.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Age: 68
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
many reports refer to the crew, some refer to the pilots other to the captain.
Stop worrying about it.
The Captain happens to be one of the pilots and he's ultimately responsible for the aircraft so I think it's logical.
Once we know who was the flying pilot it will either get "worse" or the FO will be made the hero
No worries!
Stop worrying about it.
The Captain happens to be one of the pilots and he's ultimately responsible for the aircraft so I think it's logical.
Once we know who was the flying pilot it will either get "worse" or the FO will be made the hero
No worries!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting debate on Radio 2 as to is the bloke a "hero" or not, and was he not just doing what he gets paid for? Nobody doubting the crew did a blody good job in putting it down safe, but does that make him a hero? is ditching in the annual sim check for the company i wonder? bet it is from now on!
To me a hero is someone who does something they fear. So a hero is a person who is scared of water yet wades into a lake to save someone not a champion swimmer who does the same.
A hero is someone who risks their lives to save someone elses life not someone who gets into a situation where equally they are saving their own life and in that process saving others. They may have superb skills in doing so but does that make them a hero?
If a car driver has a high speed tyre blow out on the motorway and through his driving skills brings the car to a safe halt he is NOT a hero. he has saved himself and the car passengers through his driving skills in a situation he had no choice to be in.
If he gets out of the car which then bursts into flames and then runs back to get a passenger out he then becomes a HERO.
As in this case there is NO choice in the matter you do all you can to save the situation. In that sense hero is innapropriate.
Having crashed into the river the action of walking back twice into a sinking aircraft to check for remaining passenegers would be the heroic bit.
But hey just my take
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 16th Jan 2009 at 15:00.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 388
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PACE
It always amuses me how the media use the word hero.
Pace, you have exactly it right and eloquently explained too. It is a very difficult point to raise and discuss but you managed it perfectly. Nothing you have said detracts, and I know that was your intention, in anyway from the consummate skills displayed by the crew of that flight. Well said.
I put the BA 777 crew in this same bracket.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: dublin
Age: 36
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thats all fair enough, you think your hard done by, think of the crew that work on the other side of the cockpit door. as a cabin crew member myself i know the level of experience and skill the captain F/O and THE CABIN CREW must of had between them in order to evacuate all of the pax's safetly!
So while the work load going on in the cockpit is obviously stressfull and demands the excellent focus and flying ability, maybe some of the cabin crew also need to be commened for the role in getting everyone out of the a/c safetly!!!
So while the work load going on in the cockpit is obviously stressfull and demands the excellent focus and flying ability, maybe some of the cabin crew also need to be commened for the role in getting everyone out of the a/c safetly!!!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 445
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crew did a very good job, as they have been trained to do.
Whoever made the decision to drop it in the drink made a good one.
Pace summed up the use of the word "hero", very well.
It's nice to be able to read about a happy outcome after an aircraft crash for once.
Whoever made the decision to drop it in the drink made a good one.
Pace summed up the use of the word "hero", very well.
It's nice to be able to read about a happy outcome after an aircraft crash for once.
I agree with the pondered definition of Hero in the posts above.
But in times of extreme distress the world needs heros to show that we can rise above it. Thus the word is easily applied as a form of human closure that we have beaten the odds.
Most pilots would simply say a job well done and I expect would have done the same.
But in times of extreme distress the world needs heros to show that we can rise above it. Thus the word is easily applied as a form of human closure that we have beaten the odds.
Most pilots would simply say a job well done and I expect would have done the same.
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 4,011
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You have the plaudits (reluctantly I expect) when you are the Captain of the ship. You also take the blame. Is Captain Smith of the Titanic remembered for his long and safe career at sea, or for his final night in command? WHO, essentially, carried the can for that one? The decision on where to go and how to do it was down to the Captain only. It was not a joint discussion, CRM-friendly, recyclable, dolphin friendly, biodegradeable, round table 'let's take a vote on it'-discussion on the flight deck. One pilot carried the responsibility. There is absolutely no point in carping about it. That's how it is, and that is how the news organisations see it.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So while the work load going on in the cockpit is obviously stressfull and demands the excellent focus and flying ability, maybe some of the cabin crew also need to be commened for the role in getting everyone out of the a/c safetly!!!
Pace
