What is it that make ground Engineers dislike Pilots ?
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What is it that make ground Engineers dislike Pilots ?
Have you ever wonder why engineers dislike pilots? Is it the uniform? the money, live style, girls or they just think that pilot don’t know what they doing and they don’t deserve the glorified image they have, or is it because lots of them are failed pilot and never made it .these are not necessary my views as am happen to get on very well with must of the engineers I worked with but I always wonder why is it the way it is.
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Which girls?
Most of the engineers I meet are very professional and friendly. I do not recognise your description of them at all.
But perhaps you spread your opinion of them a bit too much?
Most of the engineers I meet are very professional and friendly. I do not recognise your description of them at all.
But perhaps you spread your opinion of them a bit too much?
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Hold Position.
Your post proves why SOME engineers don't like SOME pilots. Because people like you come out with stuff like
Is it the uniform? the money, live style, girls or they just think that pilot don’t know what they doing and they don’t deserve the glorified image they have
I personally never have a problem with Engineers as I don't come out with cocky comments like you. I work with them and help them. In return they help me when the chips are down!!! I often surprise them when I offer to do things like put the pitot covers on or turn the O2 off when putting the plane to bed. Its about co-operation and we are all on the same team.
Also you may want to realise that allot of Engineers earn more than allot of Pilots with their own allowances and overtimes.
Your post proves why SOME engineers don't like SOME pilots. Because people like you come out with stuff like
Is it the uniform? the money, live style, girls or they just think that pilot don’t know what they doing and they don’t deserve the glorified image they have
I personally never have a problem with Engineers as I don't come out with cocky comments like you. I work with them and help them. In return they help me when the chips are down!!! I often surprise them when I offer to do things like put the pitot covers on or turn the O2 off when putting the plane to bed. Its about co-operation and we are all on the same team.
Also you may want to realise that allot of Engineers earn more than allot of Pilots with their own allowances and overtimes.
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It was just a teasing remarks and I did say it was not necessary my opinion I was just having discussion with an engineer friend and want to see what Joe public think ?
Last edited by Hold position; 16th Jan 2009 at 08:24.
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Have you ever wonder why engineers dislike pilots? Is it the uniform? have exactly the same uniform even down to the 4 gold bars - just choose not to be seen dead in it
the money, The money is not as vastly different as you might think
live style, Hmm, sitting next to some boring clown for 10 hours listening to stories about his ex-wives is not my idea of 'fun'
girls I've never found a shortage of girls
or they just think that pilot don’t know what they doing some do - some dont
and they don’t deserve the glorified image they have, some do - some don't
or is it because lots of them are failed pilot and never made it . Have spent enough hours doing flying engineer to know that that type of job would not be of any interest to me
the money, The money is not as vastly different as you might think
live style, Hmm, sitting next to some boring clown for 10 hours listening to stories about his ex-wives is not my idea of 'fun'
girls I've never found a shortage of girls
or they just think that pilot don’t know what they doing some do - some dont
and they don’t deserve the glorified image they have, some do - some don't
or is it because lots of them are failed pilot and never made it . Have spent enough hours doing flying engineer to know that that type of job would not be of any interest to me
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EngvPilots
Interesting Question. As a serving Emb Capt with 10 years commercial flying experience and 15 years as a Boeing Licenced Engineer I do remember a number of Pilots taking a condiscending and overbearing attitude toward me when I was engineering(but that was Britannia/Thomson). Personnely, I did,nt tar all Pilots with the same brush but some of my engineering colleages did, thus a degree of hostility. Maybe human nature to assume "they,re all the same". I can say I,ve worked and flown with some top people and also some absolute assholes.
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Well for me it would be the girls, my striking good looks and uncanny resemblance to Lennard Capstan (reinvented a leonardo de caprio) in " catch me if you can". Most engs I meet smell of oil and wee.
Flyeng,
Which military arm operates Emb type.
Im curious as you say you are a "serving Emb Capt".
Do you mean "currently a".
Do you say "at this time" alot as well.
Just curious
Flyeng,
Which military arm operates Emb type.
Im curious as you say you are a "serving Emb Capt".
Do you mean "currently a".
Do you say "at this time" alot as well.
Just curious
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I don't like the picture that engineers may not like pilots. There is certainly the attitude amongst some of our colleagues that engineers should not touch a perfectly well working machine.
There is also the attitude amongst some of the engineers that pilots should not touch an aircraft as otherwise it may return in a broken state.
There are no Jack Patronies out there who can fix all and sundry in more or less unconvential ways; this, of course, is also valid for pilots, there are no heroes who can bring an aircraft back with all sort of things broken and not follow any logical procedure.
The past has shown, and the future will proof this without any doubt, we are all sitting in the same boat. If there are no pilots to operate, no aircraft will fly, enginners will be just "daily checkers"; pilots cannot operate if engineers do not provide a workable machine. We need to work together. In all respects.
And about the environmental issues, well, this comes down to the individual. There are pilots and also engineers who have their fair share of entertainment as they desire. Others just follow their job as they are supposed to and find their outside world at home with friends and family.
Is there actually a difference to other industries? I doubt very much, change the names, change the skills and you will find all these "off-the-job" thingies as well....
There is also the attitude amongst some of the engineers that pilots should not touch an aircraft as otherwise it may return in a broken state.
There are no Jack Patronies out there who can fix all and sundry in more or less unconvential ways; this, of course, is also valid for pilots, there are no heroes who can bring an aircraft back with all sort of things broken and not follow any logical procedure.
The past has shown, and the future will proof this without any doubt, we are all sitting in the same boat. If there are no pilots to operate, no aircraft will fly, enginners will be just "daily checkers"; pilots cannot operate if engineers do not provide a workable machine. We need to work together. In all respects.
And about the environmental issues, well, this comes down to the individual. There are pilots and also engineers who have their fair share of entertainment as they desire. Others just follow their job as they are supposed to and find their outside world at home with friends and family.
Is there actually a difference to other industries? I doubt very much, change the names, change the skills and you will find all these "off-the-job" thingies as well....
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I worked for a major carrier for 25 years as a ground engineer and maintenance manager. I went to the cockpit 15 years ago. The major problem the ground engineers have is the turnovers. Many crew member get to the gate or stand and just bitch about their problems instead of explaining it in a civil tone. This set up a bad situtation that is reflected back on all crews. The engineer will go back to the line shack and tell his fellow workers and that's how it starts. It has nothing to do with the life style or pay. In fact, many ground engineers make more money that a F/O.
I always get on with the engineers quite well, I guyess partly because I understand machinery quite well and can talk their language. I also understand what their job entails and give them their space to do it.
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AAI engineers are, or certainly where better paid and had a much better contract than us pilots. Reason for that was we have no unity and we contractors failed to form a union, to managements delight, when we had the chance. Why would they envy pilots if we can't even get our own act together?
Maintenance people are pretty much on the same line and have similar interests and thus are better off than pilots. Again why would they feel animosity towards pilots?
If I ever wanted to know where to go what to buy and what bars or restaurants where good or I wanted to have good fun, I went out with engineers. Most of them are not a bunch of primadonnas with bad preconceptions like many of us pilots.
I never have ran into engineers that would fit the description of the original post, most of them a good lot and tons of fun to go out with and work together, many professional to the core.
Maintenance people are pretty much on the same line and have similar interests and thus are better off than pilots. Again why would they feel animosity towards pilots?
If I ever wanted to know where to go what to buy and what bars or restaurants where good or I wanted to have good fun, I went out with engineers. Most of them are not a bunch of primadonnas with bad preconceptions like many of us pilots.
I never have ran into engineers that would fit the description of the original post, most of them a good lot and tons of fun to go out with and work together, many professional to the core.
Last edited by Atlanta-Driver; 17th Jan 2009 at 08:56. Reason: added info
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Be VERY careful
here HoldShort.
I've gladly just lurked here, until I read this post. I submit, sir, that YOUR Engineers do not dislike pilots, they may instead dislike YOU.
Myself,, I'm "just an engineer",, a monkey with a wrench, a cog in your big machine. Except,, this monkey has 14000 flying hours,, 337 COMBAT flying hours,, 300 + COMBAT SUPPORT hours,, flight engineer qualified on no less than 6 aircraft in 3 seperate catagories. I've flown, bag dragged, drank, grazed buffets, drank, whor* hopped, knee walked, played vampire for the "back side of the clock"' on 6 of this planet's 7 continents. I've sweated check rides with waaay tooo anal check airmen,, hell, I was! a check airman on 3 different ships for 2 different airlines.
I, sir, can say "nothing from the minibar" in 7 languages. lol
I also speak fluent 747,, cuz i flew them, as well as "round motors". I now deal with "aerospace gods" from no less than 3 airlines on a daily basis; sure there are individuals that don't play well. But by and large EVERY Capt, FO, and SO that I deal with is an open, honest, and at the core, professional... And recognizes me as the same. I just chose to stop chasing a job around the planet,, and to go to bed at night, in the same bed, with the same woman.
Cheers, good luck on your chosen vocation.
here HoldShort.I've gladly just lurked here, until I read this post. I submit, sir, that YOUR Engineers do not dislike pilots, they may instead dislike YOU.
Myself,, I'm "just an engineer",, a monkey with a wrench, a cog in your big machine. Except,, this monkey has 14000 flying hours,, 337 COMBAT flying hours,, 300 + COMBAT SUPPORT hours,, flight engineer qualified on no less than 6 aircraft in 3 seperate catagories. I've flown, bag dragged, drank, grazed buffets, drank, whor* hopped, knee walked, played vampire for the "back side of the clock"' on 6 of this planet's 7 continents. I've sweated check rides with waaay tooo anal check airmen,, hell, I was! a check airman on 3 different ships for 2 different airlines.
I, sir, can say "nothing from the minibar" in 7 languages. lol
I also speak fluent 747,, cuz i flew them, as well as "round motors". I now deal with "aerospace gods" from no less than 3 airlines on a daily basis; sure there are individuals that don't play well. But by and large EVERY Capt, FO, and SO that I deal with is an open, honest, and at the core, professional... And recognizes me as the same. I just chose to stop chasing a job around the planet,, and to go to bed at night, in the same bed, with the same woman.
Cheers, good luck on your chosen vocation.
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I wrote the above post to prove a point. Much like mentioned above; we have much more in common than your initial post implies. We all have our ups and downs, good days and bad trips,,,, And EVERYONE in this industry is in their own CHOSEN boat.
My only advice might be to make sure you know what parameters of your operation your engineer/mechanic REALLY has control over, before casting such a broad opinion. Again,best of luck.
My only advice might be to make sure you know what parameters of your operation your engineer/mechanic REALLY has control over, before casting such a broad opinion. Again,best of luck.
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the money,
Anyway, an Engineer wearing 3 stipes on his shoulder told me one day:
"You know what the stripes stand for? 1k for each one, both sides togather"
Found alomst all Engineers very friendly, so maybe you should change the way how you tread them and they will be more friendly even to you.
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Don't know about some ground engineers, but ours seem to really appreciate the flight crews....especially when two of our senior captains recommended an additional bonus for them because of truly outstanding maintenance ops during the last Haj flights.
Management complied...everyone pleased.
Pilots should well remember...airplane AOG, nobody benefits...including pilots.
This is especially true in the airline charter business.
Management complied...everyone pleased.
Pilots should well remember...airplane AOG, nobody benefits...including pilots.
This is especially true in the airline charter business.
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Hi!
I would like to reply to this question as an aircraft engineer (retired) with SAS. I have worked with hundreds of pilots for many years, and there are very few pilots I have not liked! We had a very close cooperation with our pilots and those who flew for other airlines we serviced. I guess what I really am saying is that you yourself might be the problem!
Best Wishes,
Tom
I would like to reply to this question as an aircraft engineer (retired) with SAS. I have worked with hundreds of pilots for many years, and there are very few pilots I have not liked! We had a very close cooperation with our pilots and those who flew for other airlines we serviced. I guess what I really am saying is that you yourself might be the problem!
Best Wishes,
Tom
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I get along with most engineers (they call mechanics in N America)...
Like I also get along with other pilots and flight engineers.
There were pilots, flight engineers and ground engineers I did dislike.
Or they disliked me equally.
xxx
I flew my career in 3 crewmember planes. Captain, F/O and F/E...
Many of the F/Es were former engineers. Appreciate their technical knowledge.
And how to troubleshoot and fix the plane.
On charter flights, off line, we get an engineer to fly along with us.
After taking care of the airplane, they join pilots for a beer.
And in the flight deck, they are good company. Tea or coffee, guys...?
I have a mechanic taking care of my little Piper L-21.
He trades free maintenance, for learning to fly and free flying.
And since he fixes it, I know he does it good, or he will... crash...!
xxx
The engineers I hate are the ones with toolbox only containing pencil and eraser.
Happy contrails
Like I also get along with other pilots and flight engineers.
There were pilots, flight engineers and ground engineers I did dislike.
Or they disliked me equally.
xxx
I flew my career in 3 crewmember planes. Captain, F/O and F/E...
Many of the F/Es were former engineers. Appreciate their technical knowledge.
And how to troubleshoot and fix the plane.
On charter flights, off line, we get an engineer to fly along with us.
After taking care of the airplane, they join pilots for a beer.
And in the flight deck, they are good company. Tea or coffee, guys...?
I have a mechanic taking care of my little Piper L-21.
He trades free maintenance, for learning to fly and free flying.
And since he fixes it, I know he does it good, or he will... crash...!
xxx
The engineers I hate are the ones with toolbox only containing pencil and eraser.
Happy contrails