Avoid icing conditions
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Avoid icing conditions
If you had a QRH direction to 'avoid icing conditions' (such as with a bleed air problem) how would you do it?
Lets say the weather is 2500m, OVC 500', 5/4 degrees at your departure and destination, [and you're in the sim as well!]
Would you land ASAP?
Climb out of it?
Vectors or tracks to clearer air?
Thanks
AVCP
Lets say the weather is 2500m, OVC 500', 5/4 degrees at your departure and destination, [and you're in the sim as well!]
Would you land ASAP?
Climb out of it?
Vectors or tracks to clearer air?
Thanks
AVCP
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I am NOT a pilot, but have done a lot of ‘ sitting there ’ or designated autopilot flying in light aircraft; I have both photographed de-icing systems in flight and also watched ice build up on leading edges at a speed & thickness which if I saw in a Hollywood film I would write off as complete B.S!
Even the Test Pilot in control ( NOT J.F. ) made a quick radio call & even quicker descent – we had the luxury of being able to do that.
I do think this is one subject which after all these years, needs further research & equipment fitted both on engines and ALL control surfaces.
OK you who know better, I’m prepared for ‘ incoming ’ !
Even the Test Pilot in control ( NOT J.F. ) made a quick radio call & even quicker descent – we had the luxury of being able to do that.
I do think this is one subject which after all these years, needs further research & equipment fitted both on engines and ALL control surfaces.
OK you who know better, I’m prepared for ‘ incoming ’ !
Last edited by Double Zero; 7th Apr 2008 at 23:01.
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If you're currently in icing conditions, get out of them! If you can't, land ASAP.
If you have a suitable alternate available with non-icing weather, use it! If the weather is the same all around the area, land at the original destination, assuming you can fly in non-icing conditions except for the terminal area.
If you have a suitable alternate available with non-icing weather, use it! If the weather is the same all around the area, land at the original destination, assuming you can fly in non-icing conditions except for the terminal area.
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I don't want to appear flippant ( but will do so anyway ) -" Terminal Area" doesn't sound too inviting in this context !
Re. My earlier comment, I think the research has been done, but the will & most importantly money to fit the necessary equipment is lacking - possibly the same could be said of downburst cells & thunderstorms - it's all very well saying " go around it " but in real life...
Re. My earlier comment, I think the research has been done, but the will & most importantly money to fit the necessary equipment is lacking - possibly the same could be said of downburst cells & thunderstorms - it's all very well saying " go around it " but in real life...
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They key here has to be to ask yourself why the QRH says avoid icing conditions & come up with a plan for your individual circumstances. Does the failure mean no engine anti-ice available or is it just airframe AI? Engine AI would be required if the TAT was less than 10 degrees C but you would be unlikely to get any airframe ice above about 3 or 4 degrees.
You may not have an alternate available that you could reach without descending through icing conditions.
QRH drills will not cover all eventualities. For instance on the A320 pushing the fire pushbutton means that that bleed air is not available to the failed side wing for de-icing. So if you have to descend through heavy icing to get down what are you going to do? Stay up there until you run out of fuel - NO
. Use assymetric wing Anti-ice - NO. Reset the fire pushbutton to restore wing anti-ice contrary to the QRH drill - may be
.
Who knows for sure? You have to be there at the time. The trouble is in your scenario you are in the sim so the training captain has already made up his mind what the right answer is.
You may not have an alternate available that you could reach without descending through icing conditions.
QRH drills will not cover all eventualities. For instance on the A320 pushing the fire pushbutton means that that bleed air is not available to the failed side wing for de-icing. So if you have to descend through heavy icing to get down what are you going to do? Stay up there until you run out of fuel - NO
. Use assymetric wing Anti-ice - NO. Reset the fire pushbutton to restore wing anti-ice contrary to the QRH drill - may be.Who knows for sure? You have to be there at the time. The trouble is in your scenario you are in the sim so the training captain has already made up his mind what the right answer is.
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In the sim the training capt will have already made up his mind what the answer right is. Hope not, he'll have an opinion, but I would hope that he would allow others to have theirs too.
In my opinion the correct thing to do would be to find out whether if you climb you can clear icing conditions. If so then do that and try to find somewhere to divert to that is free of icing conditions. Of course being in the sim will mean that you will prob end up in icing conditions, so descend into this as late as possible and expedite your progress to your approach, using a PAN call would be approriate. I would however recommend that you keep to the normal approach, ie don't be tempted to cut corners for the sake of a minute or two extra getting the approach right first time, better to spend a couple of extra minutes running in from 10 to 15 miles out than to cut in at 6 miles, screw up the approach and end up going around and spending 10 further minutes getting vectored for another approach
.
. Hope not, he'll have an opinion, but I would hope that he would allow others to have theirs too.In my opinion the correct thing to do would be to find out whether if you climb you can clear icing conditions. If so then do that and try to find somewhere to divert to that is free of icing conditions. Of course being in the sim will mean that you will prob end up in icing conditions, so descend into this as late as possible and expedite your progress to your approach, using a PAN call would be approriate. I would however recommend that you keep to the normal approach, ie don't be tempted to cut corners for the sake of a minute or two extra getting the approach right first time, better to spend a couple of extra minutes running in from 10 to 15 miles out than to cut in at 6 miles, screw up the approach and end up going around and spending 10 further minutes getting vectored for another approach
.
