Calling all 737-3/4/500 pilots
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Calling all 737-3/4/500 pilots
Hi there, i was recently hired by Turkish Airlines as a 737-400 pilot, i am currently in training, i wanted to get to know other 737 pilots on pprune, and see if they have any words of wisdom to this new boeing driver
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Well, where do we start!
Eng failure, be gentle with the rudder and not to much aileron, more rudder than aileron I'd say, as I say very gentle with the rudder!
Go around, 2 engines dont pull back to much, engines under the wings provide a lot of pitch when spooled up to max thrust, so just fly the director!
N-1 Go around again smoothly with the rudder and not to much pulling back, still a fair amount of power there.
Light weights, as with all a/c flight controls sloppy, with eng failure will need to be quick with the inputs!
All fairly fresh as I am fairly new on type, if you're new to the type and a Boeing and FMS try and get on top of the FMS, it will help for sure!
All the best!
Eng failure, be gentle with the rudder and not to much aileron, more rudder than aileron I'd say, as I say very gentle with the rudder!
Go around, 2 engines dont pull back to much, engines under the wings provide a lot of pitch when spooled up to max thrust, so just fly the director!
N-1 Go around again smoothly with the rudder and not to much pulling back, still a fair amount of power there.
Light weights, as with all a/c flight controls sloppy, with eng failure will need to be quick with the inputs!
All fairly fresh as I am fairly new on type, if you're new to the type and a Boeing and FMS try and get on top of the FMS, it will help for sure!
All the best!
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First of all, congratulations !!!
I fly the -300, -500 and NG myself so there may be very slight system differences but if you need any help/explanations etc. send me a message - I'll see if i can help !!!
I'm fairly new myself but a bit of a tech swat !
I agree fully with Ennie. Engines create HUGE pitch up. On a 2-eng go around, you may actually need to push forward slightly !!!
The rudder is very effective and as Ennie said, be very gentle with it !
I found a good way to work engine failures were to use hardly any pressure onthe control wheel and maintain wings level with the rudder alone - give you a good feel for it and easier to trim out then ! (must stress that that is my own technique though - one of methods given by instructor and works for me - not for everyone).
If you can get your head around the FMS and systems - the operation and sim sessions are much easier.
Good Luck
I fly the -300, -500 and NG myself so there may be very slight system differences but if you need any help/explanations etc. send me a message - I'll see if i can help !!!
I'm fairly new myself but a bit of a tech swat !
I agree fully with Ennie. Engines create HUGE pitch up. On a 2-eng go around, you may actually need to push forward slightly !!!
The rudder is very effective and as Ennie said, be very gentle with it !
I found a good way to work engine failures were to use hardly any pressure onthe control wheel and maintain wings level with the rudder alone - give you a good feel for it and easier to trim out then ! (must stress that that is my own technique though - one of methods given by instructor and works for me - not for everyone).
If you can get your head around the FMS and systems - the operation and sim sessions are much easier.
Good Luck
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On engine failure:
"Step on the ball". This means that you give a GOOD amount of rudder imput, never mind if initially you do too much/ too little rudder. Just keep control. Fly the lady and don't overdo her with pitch if you're heavy.Then keep your foot there. DO NOT PLAY with the rudder but correct with the ailerons. You'll find that 5 units of rudder trim works great (remember to trim towards your pressing foot). You can keep this rudder trim all the way down, and it will help a lot when having to do a N-1 Go-Around. Ask your Training department though for your airline's SOP regarding this.
Go-Around:
When being light: DO NOT press TOGA (if it isn't a wave-off). Give gradual more thrust manually or you'll be in trouble if your level off alt. is low. The engines are very powerful...
Flying manually:
The magic of smooth manual flying is: try not to move the controls. As crazy as it may sound, you should minimize yoke movement as much as possible. Instead, put pressure on the controls until you have achieved your required aob. or pitch. never mind what the FD says, if you fly manually, beter to put that FD off anyway. Try it. It works wonders.
Landing:
Keep your descent rate until hearing ""30" then slightly raise the nose (1 or 2°). at "10", close the throttle in a gentle way. keep in mind that a positive landing is a good landing. No need for greasers
The B737 is a great aircraft. Try to fly her manually and without FD as much as your airline allows, only then you'll really get to know her character.
These are some tips from me and my ex-Sabena collegues. They helped me a lot when new on the aircraft, ask your trainers though what THEY want. I'm just a fool with too much time on hand...
"Step on the ball". This means that you give a GOOD amount of rudder imput, never mind if initially you do too much/ too little rudder. Just keep control. Fly the lady and don't overdo her with pitch if you're heavy.Then keep your foot there. DO NOT PLAY with the rudder but correct with the ailerons. You'll find that 5 units of rudder trim works great (remember to trim towards your pressing foot). You can keep this rudder trim all the way down, and it will help a lot when having to do a N-1 Go-Around. Ask your Training department though for your airline's SOP regarding this.
Go-Around:
When being light: DO NOT press TOGA (if it isn't a wave-off). Give gradual more thrust manually or you'll be in trouble if your level off alt. is low. The engines are very powerful...
Flying manually:
The magic of smooth manual flying is: try not to move the controls. As crazy as it may sound, you should minimize yoke movement as much as possible. Instead, put pressure on the controls until you have achieved your required aob. or pitch. never mind what the FD says, if you fly manually, beter to put that FD off anyway. Try it. It works wonders.
Landing:
Keep your descent rate until hearing ""30" then slightly raise the nose (1 or 2°). at "10", close the throttle in a gentle way. keep in mind that a positive landing is a good landing. No need for greasers
The B737 is a great aircraft. Try to fly her manually and without FD as much as your airline allows, only then you'll really get to know her character.
These are some tips from me and my ex-Sabena collegues. They helped me a lot when new on the aircraft, ask your trainers though what THEY want. I'm just a fool with too much time on hand...
Some more tips:
The 737 has a strong ballooning tendency when selecting flaps. In particular, if you don't push the nose down after selecting landing flaps you'll end up one or two dots high on finals in just seconds.
Windshear recovery: after the initial recovery actions have been taken and when the windshear condition is exited, the FMC may enter an ALT(itude) ACQ(uire) mode much too soon. Especially tricky if you're recovering from a performance-decreasing windshear. If this happens, don't follow the flight director, or you'll risk pulling the plane into a stall! Better maintain a pitch angle below 20 degrees nose up and set a comfortable climb thrust, e.g. 85% N1. To exit such a premature ALT ACQ, recycle the altitude selector on the MCP.
I agree with the go-around cautions - however, if you have ever flown an A310 go-around, you'll wonder what the fuss is all about.
The 737 has a strong ballooning tendency when selecting flaps. In particular, if you don't push the nose down after selecting landing flaps you'll end up one or two dots high on finals in just seconds.
Windshear recovery: after the initial recovery actions have been taken and when the windshear condition is exited, the FMC may enter an ALT(itude) ACQ(uire) mode much too soon. Especially tricky if you're recovering from a performance-decreasing windshear. If this happens, don't follow the flight director, or you'll risk pulling the plane into a stall! Better maintain a pitch angle below 20 degrees nose up and set a comfortable climb thrust, e.g. 85% N1. To exit such a premature ALT ACQ, recycle the altitude selector on the MCP.
I agree with the go-around cautions - however, if you have ever flown an A310 go-around, you'll wonder what the fuss is all about.
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Caution
Yes, good to 'hand fly' but these generation of Aircraft are designed to be manipulated through the automatics so a thourough understanding of the modes and fmc interface is vital. All versions of the 7-3 fly nicely and when things start going pearshaped then back to basics hand flying works a treat. We are here to offer our own advice but i'd caution against lots of manual flying as what catches most people out who are new to type is the subtlety of the various modes. Therefore, get an early grasp of these.Perhaps a mix of both depending on what and how busy an environment you're operating in.......and how the skipper feels!
No disrespect to despegue or his collegues but the Belgians are renowned for their love of 'hand flying'. But like he says, it will depend on your Airlines automation policy.
Good luck and enjoy!
Yes, good to 'hand fly' but these generation of Aircraft are designed to be manipulated through the automatics so a thourough understanding of the modes and fmc interface is vital. All versions of the 7-3 fly nicely and when things start going pearshaped then back to basics hand flying works a treat. We are here to offer our own advice but i'd caution against lots of manual flying as what catches most people out who are new to type is the subtlety of the various modes. Therefore, get an early grasp of these.Perhaps a mix of both depending on what and how busy an environment you're operating in.......and how the skipper feels!
No disrespect to despegue or his collegues but the Belgians are renowned for their love of 'hand flying'. But like he says, it will depend on your Airlines automation policy.
Good luck and enjoy!
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IMHO...It is a good idea to observe and follow the control movements through on a max cross wind auto land demo in the sim. You will observe the way the autopilot does it and notice the small amount of aileron input and the hull centreline offset vv the runway centreline during approach and at touch down.
Follow this up with an auto goaround demo at a Cat 2 DH....these demoes will give you a feel of the control movement and pressures required, power application rate vv the pitch up rate etc.
If you can fly the aircraft as well as the autopilot... I think you will pass the handling part of your course!
Where you actually look as a pilot and how you regain your scan sequence (T scan or wagon wheel scan) and situational awareness is important.
If you start to feel overloaded as a newbee on any aircraft .... I was taught Pitch/bank/balance (trim) power (check) as a scan and action (matra) followed by a green (Active) modes and nav progress check...( A where the F...k are we? It gets you back orientated and flying it and not it flying you.
You should avoid...machine gun fingers (rapid stab selection) on the mode selection and FMC button manipulations...think lingering pressure and positive mode and action check....avoid both pilots heads down in the FMC situations.
The engine failure at V1 is easily controlled if you simply feed in the rudder pressure to remain on the runway centre line and rotate slowly 2 degrees per second at the VR call ( you can count 2/4/6/8/10 and hold the 10 to 11 degrees approx required on a single engine at most weights....as you rotate and loose sight of the centreline your scan transitions via the skypointer and pitch on the ADI to the HSI track indicator.. you simply maintain the runway track numbers ( I recall if you were turning right the numbers increased !! the important thing is to get back onto runway track if indeed you have left it....the aileron and rudder inputs need to be a smooth and positive progressive pressure input and do not need to be violent or reversed but a one time action if you get it right first time. With respect I would not recommend a stamping on the Boeing's slip "Ball" technique... as a means of maintaining aircraft control or track I feel there are other better reference points
I would also recommend you learn by recall your pitch attitudes and power settings found in the Boeing chart "Flight with unreliable airspeed" ask your instructor to demonstrate a manual circuit and approach and landing flying with the airspeed indicator blanked off after 200 feet on takeoff.
The aircraft pitch and bank attitudes that will cause you to strike the tail or wing tip is also important information for you on any aircraft you fly.
You did ask for input and I hope even one point mention is helpful to you...the important thing is to ask...and keep on asking until you get happy on the aircraft...do not forget to look three quarters of the way down the runway during the landing flare and stay on the bloody centreline.
Follow this up with an auto goaround demo at a Cat 2 DH....these demoes will give you a feel of the control movement and pressures required, power application rate vv the pitch up rate etc.
If you can fly the aircraft as well as the autopilot... I think you will pass the handling part of your course!
Where you actually look as a pilot and how you regain your scan sequence (T scan or wagon wheel scan) and situational awareness is important.
If you start to feel overloaded as a newbee on any aircraft .... I was taught Pitch/bank/balance (trim) power (check) as a scan and action (matra) followed by a green (Active) modes and nav progress check...( A where the F...k are we? It gets you back orientated and flying it and not it flying you.
You should avoid...machine gun fingers (rapid stab selection) on the mode selection and FMC button manipulations...think lingering pressure and positive mode and action check....avoid both pilots heads down in the FMC situations.
The engine failure at V1 is easily controlled if you simply feed in the rudder pressure to remain on the runway centre line and rotate slowly 2 degrees per second at the VR call ( you can count 2/4/6/8/10 and hold the 10 to 11 degrees approx required on a single engine at most weights....as you rotate and loose sight of the centreline your scan transitions via the skypointer and pitch on the ADI to the HSI track indicator.. you simply maintain the runway track numbers ( I recall if you were turning right the numbers increased !! the important thing is to get back onto runway track if indeed you have left it....the aileron and rudder inputs need to be a smooth and positive progressive pressure input and do not need to be violent or reversed but a one time action if you get it right first time. With respect I would not recommend a stamping on the Boeing's slip "Ball" technique... as a means of maintaining aircraft control or track I feel there are other better reference points
I would also recommend you learn by recall your pitch attitudes and power settings found in the Boeing chart "Flight with unreliable airspeed" ask your instructor to demonstrate a manual circuit and approach and landing flying with the airspeed indicator blanked off after 200 feet on takeoff.
The aircraft pitch and bank attitudes that will cause you to strike the tail or wing tip is also important information for you on any aircraft you fly.
You did ask for input and I hope even one point mention is helpful to you...the important thing is to ask...and keep on asking until you get happy on the aircraft...do not forget to look three quarters of the way down the runway during the landing flare and stay on the bloody centreline.
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Originally Posted by pilotaydin
Hi there, i was recently hired by Turkish Airlines as a 737-400 pilot, i am currently in training, i wanted to get to know other 737 pilots on pprune, and see if they have any words of wisdom to this new boeing driver
Watch the tail on takeoff and landings.
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VNAV PATH des
Be careful while using the VNAV PATH des... if u got strong tail winds during des the a/c just increases the ROD to keep on path... usually increasing the speed... though there is a reversion mode present... but u dont want to go all the way to 335 kts where the reversion mode kicks in ... its too close to the clacker speed... very uncomfortable... ( to avoid this make sure the des. forcast page is filled up)... all the best... 
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thanks
thank you for all the kind words, and thank you especially for the helpful tips! The sim sessions are approaching fast, im trying to memorize my boxed items, my limitations and most importantly my PM/PF callouts!!
if anyone has more to add i would love messages/posts at any time
happy landings
if anyone has more to add i would love messages/posts at any time
happy landings
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Further to what Gold Leader said.....330 +knts approaching reversion mode sees you poorly placed if you also encounter turbulance in a descent and leads into a pilot overload situation best avoided.
A programmed M.78/290Kts and 250kts at and below 10,000agl is a Boeing manual approved fuel saving option and works well for turbulance and speed containment and achieves VNAV path at a more gentleman like speed and ride and gives you more thinking and monitoring time. Reduce the stress.
A programmed M.78/290Kts and 250kts at and below 10,000agl is a Boeing manual approved fuel saving option and works well for turbulance and speed containment and achieves VNAV path at a more gentleman like speed and ride and gives you more thinking and monitoring time. Reduce the stress.
