Fast approach speed
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Fast approach speed
Hi All
A question I hope someone can answer. On the flight last night (9th of Nov) from Stanstead to Shannon arriving at 7pm, approximately 60sec before landing a go around was initiated. The aircraft climbed for a short period and then circled around to line up again. On the second approach the aircraft appeared (to me) to land quite fast. It was bumpy on the way in but nothing that I have not experienced before. The rollout also appeared to take longer. We then taxied to the ramp and that was it.
The aircraft was a 737-800, the cloud cover was low and the weather was a mix of wind and rain. The return flight I believe was delayed but I’m not 100% sure.
It may have been a simple go around due to another aircraft on the runway. I would not ask only for the fact that the second approach appeared to be so much faster than the first approach or in my opinion faster than a normal approach. I use the term, normal in the context of a non pilot seated in the cabin. So it may have been a total non event but I would be interested to know the cause of the go around or at least your opinion on why it may have happened.
Regards
Dave
A question I hope someone can answer. On the flight last night (9th of Nov) from Stanstead to Shannon arriving at 7pm, approximately 60sec before landing a go around was initiated. The aircraft climbed for a short period and then circled around to line up again. On the second approach the aircraft appeared (to me) to land quite fast. It was bumpy on the way in but nothing that I have not experienced before. The rollout also appeared to take longer. We then taxied to the ramp and that was it.
The aircraft was a 737-800, the cloud cover was low and the weather was a mix of wind and rain. The return flight I believe was delayed but I’m not 100% sure.
It may have been a simple go around due to another aircraft on the runway. I would not ask only for the fact that the second approach appeared to be so much faster than the first approach or in my opinion faster than a normal approach. I use the term, normal in the context of a non pilot seated in the cabin. So it may have been a total non event but I would be interested to know the cause of the go around or at least your opinion on why it may have happened.
Regards
Dave
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Paid by the sector? Running close to maximum hours per month? Additional sectors now in jeopody (thus sector pay) lots of hungry people in family back in Russia to feed, closest place that will allow you to work with wonky expat local status, Land of Two Jags beer guttted belly "lets flag everything out" Prescott! First landing thwarted now "Jesus H Christ, my hours are now tight, get the fecker on the ground quick!"
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I'd have thought that a captain in a reputable airline would've explained the situation to the pax by PA, if only to allay fears. All the airlines that I've travelled on - and been involved in a go-around - have always said something to the pax.
I suspect that the higher speed in the 2nd approach was more likely to minimise delay to the schedule. Just a guess.
I suspect that the higher speed in the 2nd approach was more likely to minimise delay to the schedule. Just a guess.
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You are always told to make a PA when you have to do a go around. The reality is though you are often working very hard on a visual circuit and you just don't have time. However a PA could be made after the landing.
A go around is often initiated just because the previous landing aircraft is slow at clearing the runway.
A go around is often initiated just because the previous landing aircraft is slow at clearing the runway.
Ohcirrej
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Sorry about this but I have to ask an question here folks (AND this is not a chip at you Dave, I mean no offence or disrespect at all)
How many drivers out there could, as a passenger, tell "how fast" an aircraft was actually going .......... ie too fast on the approach? I've heard on more than a couple of occasions SLF say "Oh, we were going too fast on approach".
Just curious.
How many drivers out there could, as a passenger, tell "how fast" an aircraft was actually going .......... ie too fast on the approach? I've heard on more than a couple of occasions SLF say "Oh, we were going too fast on approach".
Just curious.
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Dave, Pilotdown,and Oz expat, any occasion is good for a Ryanair bashing
never occurred to you this was probably just a normal go around and landing, with maybe a bit of tail wind...
The comments on pilot rushing to earn more money are just bull**** and should not appear on a professional site.
Dave, why don't you sit in the cabin and tell us the speed of the A/C in the clouds, without any visual clues, much cheaper than all those expensive speedometer we need to use
never occurred to you this was probably just a normal go around and landing, with maybe a bit of tail wind...
The comments on pilot rushing to earn more money are just bull**** and should not appear on a professional site.
Dave, why don't you sit in the cabin and tell us the speed of the A/C in the clouds, without any visual clues, much cheaper than all those expensive speedometer we need to use
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I agree, it would be impossible from the SLF's window to tell if an approach was 'too fast'. Like Baron said, all that expensive equipment is superfluous, just ask the pax!
"speed up a bit, Nooo slow it down now captain, Can't you flyboys do anything right??" 
AT
"speed up a bit, Nooo slow it down now captain, Can't you flyboys do anything right??"
AT
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Perhaps the second approach was faster, perhaps it was not...............
There's 101 scenarios that may result in a missed approach followed by a faster approach. Here's one of them -
A Flight Control / Flap problem becomes apparent during approach, which best justifies a missed approach rather than a 'Continue to Land' decision. A great number of Flight Control and Flap problems require landing at a lower Flap setting, attendant with a higher approach speed.
There's one of many possible scenarios. As your Captain refrained from advising you of the reasons, I guess that it just remain yet another of aviation's mysterys
Regards,
Old Smokey
There's 101 scenarios that may result in a missed approach followed by a faster approach. Here's one of them -
A Flight Control / Flap problem becomes apparent during approach, which best justifies a missed approach rather than a 'Continue to Land' decision. A great number of Flight Control and Flap problems require landing at a lower Flap setting, attendant with a higher approach speed.
There's one of many possible scenarios. As your Captain refrained from advising you of the reasons, I guess that it just remain yet another of aviation's mysterys
Regards,
Old Smokey
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Baron Red... I suggest you re-read my post. I did not identify any airline by name. It seems to be you who created a connection between my post and the airline that you identified.
A bit touchy, are we?
A bit touchy, are we?
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I would have thought that OzExpat's post was totally neutral, applying to ANY airline, anywhere, or to be more specific, ANY Captain, anywhere.
How some people can extract a non-existant 'side-swipe' from reading between the lines defies reason..............
Regards,
Old Smokey
How some people can extract a non-existant 'side-swipe' from reading between the lines defies reason..............
Regards,
Old Smokey
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Fast approach speed.
My money is definitely on the scenario: Latter stages of the 1st approach, land flap is selected and doesn't run to the selected setting. Pilot decides that it is rather too late to re-calculate and bug flap 15 approach speed and he's unlikely to be fully stable in good time. Safe solution? To go-around and set up for a second approach. The second approach is made with an intermediate flap setting (15) as opposed to the usual 30 or 40 degree setting. The approach speed will be about 12kts faster than the last approach. Whether or not someone would be aware of that speed difference looking out of the sideways facing passenger window is hard to say. However, if the aircraft had flight control problems such that he was having to do a flapless landing, then the speed would be 50kts faster than usual and you would definitely know all about that! Also, for both the 15 flap case and the flapless case, the aircraft attitude would be noticeably different from the normal and this would alert a passenger that something was out of the ordinary (they already knew that because of the earlier go-around anyway). One thing is for sure, even if too busy during the go-around and subsequent reposition and approach, a reassuring P.A from the flight deck after landing would have gone a long way to relax everyone. 
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Hi Folks
I would just like to say that a number of people have implied that I thought the aircraft landed too fast. I did not state that and did not imply it either; my comment was that the second approach appeared faster, to me.
OzExpat, Flap 5, Old Smokey
I wondered about there being no PA but just assumed that the pilots were busy and would get to it eventually.
Baron Rouge
I did not mention the carrier because I did not think it relevant to the discussion. I have also noticed a tendency for topics to be highjack if certain carriers are mention and did not want this to occur.
It of course occurred to me that this was a normal go around and would not have asked the question but for the fact that the second approach appeared faster to me, relative to the first BR, you seem almost insulted by my asking a question of this nature, as if I had an alterative motive for posting. I was genuinely interested in the possible reasons for this situation and also curious. Is there something wrong in that?
As for your clip about using me as an airspeed indicator, there is one fundamental problem in your assumption, that my services would be free of charge.
Cheers to all for the replies
Dave
I would just like to say that a number of people have implied that I thought the aircraft landed too fast. I did not state that and did not imply it either; my comment was that the second approach appeared faster, to me.
OzExpat, Flap 5, Old Smokey
I wondered about there being no PA but just assumed that the pilots were busy and would get to it eventually.
Baron Rouge
I did not mention the carrier because I did not think it relevant to the discussion. I have also noticed a tendency for topics to be highjack if certain carriers are mention and did not want this to occur.
It of course occurred to me that this was a normal go around and would not have asked the question but for the fact that the second approach appeared faster to me, relative to the first BR, you seem almost insulted by my asking a question of this nature, as if I had an alterative motive for posting. I was genuinely interested in the possible reasons for this situation and also curious. Is there something wrong in that?
As for your clip about using me as an airspeed indicator, there is one fundamental problem in your assumption, that my services would be free of charge.
Cheers to all for the replies
Dave
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Dave Mc - could you tell us why you thought the second approach was faster? I'm a pilot and couldn't tell if one approach was faster than the other from a seat down the back.
Just interested as others have said something similar.
Did you mean the engines sounded louder, the attitude seemed more nose down or what?
Just interested as others have said something similar.
Did you mean the engines sounded louder, the attitude seemed more nose down or what?
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Baron rouge: You were the first person to add a name. But as you have, maybe you could answer a question? Why do Ryannair taxi so fast when compared with other operators?
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What I didn't get: does "add a name" refer to Ryanair (which Baron rouge did not add first) or to "Dave, Pilotdown,and Oz expat" - then I don't understand the connection to "But as you have, ..." probably because of lacking English.
