Advice - Your typical plea!
 

Hi All,
I'm 18 years old, just finished my A-Levels and want to break into the world of Aviation and pursue my lifelong dream of becoming an Airline pilot.
I know there are a million other posts like this but I still have so many questions and would be so grateful if anyone can help at all!
I live in the UK and I'm aware of the whole Integrated VS Modular scenario.
I've seen L3 (they've changed name again to L3 Harris now?!) I've seen Oxford/CAE. Yes, they're great, but £100,000+ after everything? Seriously?
I've always been set on the whole integrated route, but the more I research and the more I talk to pilots, the more I'm swaying over to the modular route.
Financially, it is possible for me to get through the integrated route but it really would be a stretch (literally re-mortgaging the parent's home to get the funds together). This just seems ludicrous when I actually think about it, especially when the outcome of integrated and modular is the same.
Either way, I want to get cracking with this but I'm feeling like I'm stuck in a rut. I keep hearing stories of poor quality cadets being pushed through L3 and barely scraping through line training.
1) In terms of the modular route, upon completion of the ATPL qualification, can you begin the job hunting or is it necessary to have a type rating before making applications?
2) I know that no-one has a crystal ball but is it possible Brexit is going to through a spanner in the works in terms of recruitment in the next 3 years?
3) Is it true you really are "left all alone" after modular training, desperately trying to get an interview with all the jobs going to those integrated students? Is L3's "placement scheme" a load of baloney?
4) Is now the time to pursue any other interests e.g taking a year out to enjoy other hobbies etc. or is it still true airlines "love" the young pilots?
5) Do you know where I can find a clear 'road-map' of the Modular route layout, recommended schools, realistic pricing and timescale etc.?
6) Are there certain Airlines that particularly favour the integrated candidates, EZY pops straight in mind...
And generally just opinions and maybe even success stories of how modular/integrated has worked for you?
Any comments would be greatly appreciated,
Cheers!

Dear All,

I need advice on the following, please.

I have the chance to train here in Peru to CPL/IR and obtain a Peruvian licence that I believe is FAA accredited. My quandary is this... yes, it is something I've always wanted to do but life has gotten in the way over the years. I did start a PPL back in the day but couldn't continue. I'm an international school teacher and I've lived in several countries but I want to fulfill my dream. However, I am 47 and would finish the course aged 48. I am educated to post-grad level, keen as mustard and would go anywhere to fly. Do you think, in your experience, it is something I should pursue. I need to make it a career...I need a job. I really welcome your thoughts.
Best regards,
The Foxes

Advice
 

Shortlisting Schools for CPL ME/IR Training
 

I'm in the process of shortlisting flying schools with a view to visiting them in the next few months in order to come to a final decision. At present, I'm thinking of looking at the following:

Bournemouth Commercial Flight Training
Stapleford Flight Centre
Diamond Flight Academy
Bartolini Air

From looking at previous posts here, they all appear to have good feedback. I was wondering if there are any others I should seriously consider adding to the list or if anyone has comments about my existing choices. I'm interested in any schools in the UK or Europe. Thanks you in advance for any feedback!

All of them are one of the best and more serious schools in Europe. I believe if you decide to any of them, you will be well served.

Bartolini count with 1 year waiting list. If you are ready at any moment you might be lucky and pick a spot from someone that gave up but the current waiting time is around 1 year. I believe is more of less the same situation for Diamond but maybe other people can conform this.

Good luck :ok:

Can't comment on the others but Stapleford are highly recommended.

I completed MEP, CPL MEIR there recently, in minimum hours, on budget, with first time passes thanks to the excellent instruction and support. Took 3 months from start to finish (almost to the day). On the budget front, my net spend at the end of everything was within £200 of the quotation I received. Can't really argue with that - nothing was hidden or misleading. Also the commercial team are fully dedicated to getting everything sorted for you and are top notch.

On site accommodation is perfectly reasonable, nothing special, but lets face it you're there to fly!

That's great; thank you for the feedback. The waiting times aren't an issue; I'm planning ahead :)

100 percent without a doubt must obtain a college degree to be competitive when applying for a job with one of the major commercial airlines (in the United States at least.) I would recommend your idea of ERAU or another University offering programs that partner with Airlines. Here are a few others: Arizona State University, Purdue University, University of North Dakota, Oklahoma State University. You can find additional University options by going to AeroSearcher and typing in “aviation universities” to the general aviation tab. Good luck!

Starting ATPL course, becoming a pilot
 

Hi, this is my first post here on PPRuNe.
I'm 19, I'm from Poland and this year I want to start the ATPL course. Right now I am considering the options I have and which path should I take to become an airline pilot: should I do the integrated ATPL in a private school, apply to the academies like BAA training or go directly to the airline and join something like WizzAir cadet program.
Is it worth paying much more and is that increasing my chances of finding a good job in the future as a pilot?
I would love some advice, feedbacks
Thanks

ask again in 12 months once the impact of C-19 is known. Go to University and get a good degree

Starting a 3/4 year uni course in autumn 2020 is probably about as sensible option as you can go for right now - certainly not a 16 month flight training course!

The world is on pause and you need to figure out how you can ride out that pause. Either work in whatever you can find, although that limits earning potential, or perhaps study in an inexpensive manner. University in my country is fairy expensive, but relatively affordable considering the three to four years it takes to get a degree and loans on offer.

Pick a valuable course, the only sure thing about coronavirus is that nations are going to have to increase their budgets for biological sciences and virology so a degree in that field is probably your safest bet if you’ve got the qualifications. Medicine is always a good shot, but you need to be best in your school for science and realistically, if that was the case, your teachers would be pushing you in that direction anyway without having to defer to PPrune.

2020 is categorically not the year to embark on a flight training course. Aviation will never be the same. The earliest I’d imagine it would return to 2019 levels is perhaps 2024-5? Ride this gap out doing something useful and constructive as a flight training course is, totally redundant right now!

CPL Or ATPL
 

It has always been my dream to be an airline pilot however I did not take A level Maths and Physics because my GCSE grades didn't allow me to. I then found out that if I wanted to do an ATPL course I need A level Maths and Physics or I have to do a CPL but I won't be able to fly for an airline with that. Is there any way that I can do my ATPL without the A level Maths and Physics as a requirement.
Thanks

The only requirements for self-funded ATPL are class 1 medical and PPL (private pilot) license. You will only need elementary level knowledge of maths & physics to complete ATPL. Airlines may then have their own entry requirements which may require A level maths/physics or university degree etc.

covid- new students, hiring
 

Hi everyone

I see some people asking about going to flight school now, Wizz cadet (doubt they will have one now), my opinion, and this is my opinion, if you are young, get a degree, have a back up plan if you can, or maybe consider going the modular path.
Currently and in Europe only, there are a few thousand pilots unemployed, and im pretty sure once this picks up, they will be the first ones getting employed by the "surviving companies" this, if they need them.
I think at least until 2023 the hiring will be veryyy slow.

I didn't have that and did both exams in my school, which were pretty easy and straight forward.

Advice for flying career
 

Hi all,
I seek your advice as I plan to pursue a career in aviation in Australia.
Corona will make things very difficult for an inexperienced pilot over the coming several years so I feel it's important to go about my studies gradually and with a plan in mind.
Initially I had intended to fly rotorwing, though decided against this reasoning the career path more difficult than fixed wing and the mid/late career earning potential heavily favouring an airline job. To scratch a helicopter itch I can always fly as a hobby in the future.
I'm 26 and have sufficient funds to cover my study and living expenses without relying upon full-time work. I'm not interested in pursuing an office job in future or continuing in self-employment at present so thought investing in myself and a flying career to be worthwhile.
I had intended to commence an integrated course early next year however will instead opt for a modular route and gradual self study with textbooks and online resources. When I return to Australia I was thinking of relocating to Townsville. Can you recommend schools/aero clubs/contacts in this region for me to consider? I thought it might also be beneficial to take excursions to other places across the state and elsewhere to build hours, diverse experience and networks.
I've been keenly reading the advice posted here about suggestions for new students and the nearterm uncertainty caused by coronavirus. As a result I'm thinking to acquire my PPL and gradually chip away at hours and theory exams. I'll delay finishing my CPL until international travel returns and only then should i start adding IR, multi engine and other endorsements.
Its not fantastic timing though perhaps not off by much if I can acquire my CPL in mid 2022. I believe that within the next 4-5 years the industry will rebound and that this crisis and the coming economic crisis (note: you should not be buying stocks here, you should be playing defensive) will present a new opportunities.
Thanks for any advice you have.

Are you saying you'll get your CPL before the IR? That's generally a very expensive mistake.

At your age you've got time on your side - and nationality. Why not consider a few years in the US? You can get both fixed wing and helicopter CPLs for less than you'd spend in Australia for just fixed wing - and have the opportunity to instruct to build flight time and work for regionals on an E1.

Thanks for this.

Aha, so things like SEIR (and others I'm assuming) are good to get during the course of CPL as they contribute hours towards CPL and will be necessary for first a first job anyway. This is what I'll have to try and figure out.

Learning in the US is an interesting idea, though i do have a spouse. I'll have to do some more research on E1 visa and school/location options.

Thanks so much.

I believe its the F1* visa you're talking about and there exists an F2 for spouse/dependants. I just had a brief look at some options for training and yeh its a whole lot cheaper. Looks like i can get CPL CFI CFII MEIR and multi engine CFI for around 70k- 80k, AUD whereas in aus this is running >120k.

​​Also AUD/USD is on the come up on the back of C19 and fed printing, so US training will only get "cheaper".

This looks like a great option, now to decide on california, arizona, florida, nevada or elsewhere for a school...

It's a lot cheaper than that mate, give me a PM if your want pointers.

​​​​​ Oh, and look up E3 visas 👍

Aha! So I can initially go on an F1 visa then change to an E3 when receive a job offer which allows 2 year extensions on an unlimited basis. Nice.

Ill PM too. Thanks

1 You don't need A levels to become a pilot.
2 You don't need an ATPL to fly for an airline
3 Your first professional licence will be a CPL
4 You can only get an ATPL once you've got enough airline experience (with your CPL)
5 Stop making excuses and become a pilot

Hear hear! Those academic requirements are for courses for the likes of easyj or FR, stuff you generally want to avoid getting mixed in with (few others had a very very bad experience) but there's generally no academic requirements to become a pilot just do your exams and it generally shows your capable. The longer you dwell on a levels that won't matter the longer you have till your flying


P.s sure a levels may be relevant when shortlisting candidates, however im not too sure.

Arithmetic; Sin/Cos/Tan is as difficult as it gets.
Physics at GCSE/Nat 5 is adequate. Boyle Law: Charles Law for meteorology is fine.

Get your Class One Medical first. Then PPL course & follow the modular route when the C-19 tsunami abates.

This sums it up. Don't think to much about the requirements, too be honest I think you're better off if you go in with a general understanding of maths and physics, such that you can absorb whatever EASA requires you to learn without doubt or hesitation.

An higher degree can work against you if they coincide with your ATPL subjects (mech/electr. engineer, medical students, etc). The exam questions often require a 'dumbed down' thinking pattern and are sometimes blatantly wrong, which favors the ones without in-depth knowledge beyond the atpl books.

Last century when the CAA set the exams pre JAR/EASA we had retired RAF A2 join the flying club as a part time instructor, aged 55.
He had decided to sit the CPL exams which were split into NAV BLOCK & TECH BLOCK.
The paper in question was DC ELECTRICS.

As an experienced aviator, he had flown Nimrod, Jetstream, Bulldog to name but a few. This question arose which completely baffled him, as the correct answer was three of the four responses depending which type from his experience he had flown. A C152 pilot would have known the “correct”.

In those days you could phone up the CAA and speak to the exam dept. The lady answering the phone said that they had been many phones complaining about that paper. He passed the resit.

Is it even worth the effort anymore to train?
 

Hello all,
I'll start by telling you all that I'm a complete newbie to the aviation industry as my only method of learning of it is reading of it for years (so don't go too hard on me). I'm currently a year 12 student who is looking at preferences for the future, with a major one being getting a bachelor in science (professional pilot) from a university flight school. I've been considering this avenue for years now, but this pandemic has put extra strain on my thoughts. My first issue is the availability of jobs in Victoria. I understand that pilot jobs are clearly not everywhere, forcing some to go interstate to find work, but this is a very unlikely scenario for me to undertake (family stuff = little to no chance). This means I'm limited to finding jobs in Victoria if there are even enough AUS wide for a graduate pilot! This on top of many other commercial plots losing work makes me feel as if my other not so interesting career avenues are more of a reality. The pandemic has also made me think about "backup" degrees, and I was wondering if any of you got a degree before going into flight school (which seems like a nice but EXTRA expensive idea).
In conclusion, commercial aviation would be a dream career for me, but is it really worth it in this day and age in this situation?
Thank you and please go easy
:)

'Pilot' isn't generally a career which allows you to chose where you live mate. Your first job might be in Botswana, your second in Vietnam etc.. It's not like getting a 'job' in the town you live - you have to make huge sacrifices in your personal life to make it work: basically you have to be prepared to give up everything for the job then rebuild your life around it. Christ that makes it sound depressing! 😂

Same position here
 

Thezk77

Yup, I’m in year 12, seemed quite easy, I got good grades in GCSE, predicted good grades for A level, was all happy thinking I could get tagged by an airline and QuickTime do an integrated program be a pilot by 21 etc etc, but corona hit and it’s made me rethink my options, slowing down entry to training is my best bet as pilot demand will still be there after this is over, no one is just going to stop Flying for holidays / meeting family etc . I’m thinking of doing a degree apprenticeship (get your degree fully funded +16,000 to 21,000 (Exc tax) year starting salary from your first year of uni at 18), spend 4 years at either BAe Or Airbus so I can say I have worked around aeroplanes in a mechanical engineering / aerospace engineering degree. This will 1. Get me a degree, 2. Help towards funding my flying 3. Delay my entry to training which is really important as big corona has made a show and is sacking people from pilot and other jobs rapidly, hope my view on things helped

uni vs ATPL training
 

Id also like to weigh in here, as you see, pilots have been made redundant, with no back up plans, they go straight from college to a big ATO get their licences and go straight into an airbus, to find out their career options are narrow, an ATPL mean virtually nothing to any job thats not a flying job IMO, hense why people say go to uni first but you can always do the course along side your flying, its personal preference. The state of the industry you're better off going to uni than train intergrated at the current moment, at least a uni course will keep you busy and you can do your PPL along side your uni course just until the industry picks up...which it will....eventually.

As someone in university studying on a pilot programme and doing my PPL at the same time, do be careful of the university you chose. The level varies vastly, especially from the US to the UK, i'm quite disappointed actually of some standards in the UK and would highly recommend not doing a pilot programme. Rather an engineering programme or a related field you enjoy. Also beware that modular costs are too still very high, especially in the UK. So at the end of the day the choice you make going into the industry varies largely on the state of the industry and how fast you are able to enter it and make your money back from it. You are a young laddy and by the time you're ready to go for a job interview we shall all hope the economy and industry is booming again. Back to topic, choose a degree you will be passionate about rather than trying to match it to aviation as it wont greatly help you as a pilot. Best of luck.

Blackbird0242

Would I be right in saying that you were taking the CAE aptitude testing a few weeks ago, and yet you are on a University course ~ pilot program ?

I would agree with you about choosing a course which interests you, preferably not aviation related
(broadens your horizons), and not the status of ‘Underwater basket weaving’.

Yes, you would be right. During year 2 at my university you are required to sit the atpl exams as they count as credits towards your degree. CAE has a strong connection with my school but is not the only option, it is just close by and convenient as are all oxford flight schools.

Career Change at age 40.
 

Hello,

I am after some advice and general guidance please, mainly on if my plan seems achievable:

I am 31 years old and I am currently in the Royal Navy (not aircrew). I have 8.5 years left to serve and I am interested in a career in aviation.

I am looking to begin training via a modular route. I am on the waiting list (awaiting the fallout from COVID) at a flying school to begin my PPL(A) followed by IR(R).

I plan to try and hour build in the local area over the next 6/7 years, but also while deployed abroad to keep it interesting and experience new scenery/views. Then around 2027/2028 start to undertake ATPL theory, Commercial Pilot Training, MEP, CB/IR, UPRT and MCC, leading to a fATPL by the time I leave the Armed Forces in 2029.

I plan on self funding throughout and I have the means to do this. I am settled in a good house with my wife and two kids. We have no current debt other than a mortgage and my wife is on a good salary as a scientist.

The advice I am seeking is... First of all, is this a realistic and sensible plan?
I believe so myself, however all the research I have done is so confusing and conflicting. I want to ensure I have not missed anything out and that I am taking the best/most cost effective route.

Next - Am I being realistic in thinking I would stand a chance at a career with an airline at the age of 40? I am hoping that my 22 years military career will be of some benefit in an interview perhaps (life experience, disciplined etc)? But age seems a real issue from what I have read, with airlines prefering 20/21 yr olds. I am particularly keen to hear from anyone who has entered the pipeline at an older age to detail any challenges/hurdles they have faced.

The biggest issue I am having and the dilemma I question every day is this... Am I wasting my time dreaming of this career and it really isn't achievable for someone my age.

I realise I am in a good position with a full military pension in my back pocket at age 40, so therefore the risk I suppose is a lot lower than some. But I always like to know what I am getting myself in to...

Any advice greatly appreciated, further expansion on any of the commercial courses also appreciated, in particular the CB/IR (very confused by this).

Also apologies if the questions I have asked have already cropped up. I have found similar but nothing substantial that has answered my questions.

Thanks

A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step.

I am sure you are medically fit, but obtain a Class One Medical before your PPL phase. The ATO will be best place to answer your on going questions.
Age can be an issue, as hiring will tend to favour the younger brethren.

Probably more chance of being hired by a turbo prop operator aged 40; that will undoubtedly require a move.
Instructing is another option for late starters.

Look up EASTERN & LOGANAIR for TP operators.

Have a Plan B.

Loads of aviation careers start at 40. Nothing unusual there. This thread is titled "My dream" - if it really is your dream then why is there any doubt?

The most cost effective UK based approach? PPL, night, IRR, MEP, CBIR (ME), CPL (SE) in that order.

The CBIR is basically a reduced amount of training and experience before you take the IR test. The traditional 55 hour course is way too long for all but the slowest learners, which makes CBIR the preferred route, plus it avoids simulator time. Simulators are great when they're used correctly to repeat maneuvers etc, but they rarely are: They're usually used to fill out the IFR requirements for the IR. So although SIM hours count towards the IR, they can't be logged as flight time for your CPL (and ATOs can charge almost as much for a SIM as an SEP!) . Doing a CBIR and reducing SIM time by using a single engine plane instead actually kills two birds with one stone and saves a fortune. The biggest mistake you can make in flight training is getting a PPL, hour building, getting a CPL then getting an IR. That's 45 hours of training after they've hit 200 hours and got their CPL. By simply getting your IR before your CPL you can incorporate the IR training into existing flying and save thousands.

Thankfully, moving away isn't a huge deal to be honest, I am used to being away from home for long periods, sometimes over 8/9 months at a time. In fact I am 99% sure my wife prefers it to be honest!

I am aware of Logan Air already and they have not long started operating out of my local airport (Southampton) so therefore that would be an ideal option. I will certainly take a look at Eastern.

I'm well aware that there are options other than the 737/A320 and I am more than open to other A/C types.

Also, there is always a plan b, thankfully the Military rely on ex serviceman as instructors a lot of the time. I am currently an instructor at the moment for trainees, therefore as a fallback I am sure I could do that.

@RUDESTUFF thanks for the advice. This is the main area I am confused with, the order of the training! I will certainly research the way you have suggested and work out a realistic timeline and financial contribution.