What would you have wanted to know just before starting flight training?
 

Hello everyone!

This year, I'm finally going to take the big step and start my journey to achieve my dream of becoming a commercial pilot.
I've taken every precaution that I could have to mitigate the financial risks: I've just completed a degree in business law as an emergency backup option and have managed to build a secure career at the job that I started at the start of my degree. I've chosen a reputable ATO that's not far from where I live and can keep my job part time during my integrated ATPL.

I feel like with that I've built a solid base to start flight training, and now that I'm getting closer to my start date I'd like to ask for any tips that you would have liked to have given to yourself before you started your training, that you didn't know at that point. I just want to prepare myself as much as I possibly can before I get stuck in.
(I'm asking for anything you can think of, like for instance any small, helpful things about general life as a student pilot, learning the theory, the actual flying, maybe even things that made the transitioning to IFR easier for you)

I'd be really grateful for any input, thanks!

Have you done a Class 1 medical? No point in starting all of this without getting that out of the way. If you don't want to go to the expense of the medical, find the EASA Med requirements and have a chat to your doctor and optician.
Best thing to do? Plan your time wisely and allow some "down time/relaxation". Flash cards are very useful for recalling lots of useless data. Believe me, most of the ATPL theory is useless data you'll never use. There are electronic ones around (eg Quizlet) but you are better off building your own sets as it will reinforce learning.

Thanks for that, making my own flashcards/summaries made my life a lot easier at uni too.
And yes, I passed my Class 1 last week. Wouldn't even have thought of starting without one and my ATO requires one before I even start training with them, which is a big green flag in my opinion.

Hi EmbraerAhoy

I ​​​​ concur with redsnail's post.

​​​​​​You might be underestimating the amount of work on integrated course particularly during the ATPL theory phase. As redsnail stated mostly useless but it's a lot of volume in a short period of time & successful students (first time passes with good %) are the ones 110% committed to this with no distractions or emotional baggage holding them back. Though it would be good to continue to work part-time I am not sure you will be able to SUCCESSFULLY do both, as it's full-time day classes with most students doing several hours extra homework. You might find yourself getting (justifiably) annoyed with the standard of the exams but you need to treat it as an entrance exam to becoming a pilot, as said before most of which you'll never use/see again.

As a former ATPL theory instructor I found the biggest hurdle for most UK students was basic maths. I strongly advise you to spend your time getting used to transposing formula eg. distance/speed/time, interpolating graphs & tables of data, basic mental arithmetic (in 2020 EASA introduced mental dead reckoning into the general navigation syllabus). Also some knowledge of physics gas laws would be useful. GCSE/secondary school level should be good enough, you don't need differential calculus! Years ago ATOs often used the first week to revise all this material but no doubt due to cost sadly no longer.

Best of luck.

Mitigated the financial risk... by going integrated 🤣🤣

Do airlines care about integrated vs modular way?
I guess they care more about overall marks and 1st attempt success?

How is the life of an airline pilot?
 

Hi, I have 18 years and I want to be an airline pilot but I have some doubts....
First of all I'm from Italy, near Turin, and I don't know how the school is determinant to find an occupation in an airline after the study, I heard that there is a school in Jerez where is more easy to get a job for example.
Also I don't know how is the routine in this job in EU, in the short and in the long haul, and if is really hard in term of social life.
I am still not sure if this will be my future also because I don't know if I really like aviation at the point of flying everyday, I read some pilots who said to try to fly a little plane in a school and see if I enjoy it or not, what do you think?
Thank you.

For sure do this before you commit massive amounts of your (or your family's) money to trying to launch an aviation career. What's the point if you don't even know that you enjoy sitting in the front of the plane being responsible for your own life! *^^* My personal advice since you're very young would be to do a PPL first and figure out if you want to keep going after that.

You either want to be a pilot or you don't. Just give up mate.

Pass me the popcorn when you’re done! 😂

Greetings everyone!

Just a brief background about me, I am a 22M Indian, with a Bachelors degree in hand, I have always wanted to become an airline pilot and had intended to join a cadet pilot program as well, I have cleared all required ground theory papers, medicals etc. in India, But due Covid the Cadet pilot programs have been discontinued and does not look like they will resume anytime soon, due to this I am considering going abroad, probably Canada or the US for my flight training, But as I dig deeper, since obviously it is a huge investment, what are your takes on the job environment lets say in the next 2 years in both the canadian aviation market as well as Indian Aviation? Should I work for now and wait for the cadet pilot program to restart? If I do go conventional and train in Canada, theres a possibility for being a CFI over there and gaining hours as well as some money, woudl that open up the US market as well for me after say 1500 hours? whats the safest way to go about it?

Hello everyone. I'm 35 years young and am considering a career change. I'm in quite a fortunate position where I have enough savings and can finally pursue the dream of being a pilot.

It seems like every view suggests going the modular route and given I could carry on working while pursuing that it seems like a no-brainer. So I plan to do a trial PPL lesson and get a Class 1 medical booked in in the next few months and see how it goes from there.

I live in London, and would prefer to stay in the area both during the training period and ideally during a potential pilot career although I appreciate that being picky about jobs is probably not a liberty I'll have.

This brings me to my first question, related to Brexit, and how it is impacting opportunities for UK pilots. Jobs seem to be competitive enough at is, and I have read a few articles suggesting it had made it more challenging for UK pilots by essentially limiting them to UK aircraft based in the UK. Is this still an ongoing issue? It seems like it would be a huge challenge to get employed compared to being able to choose across an entire continent and it is something I am concerned about.

Regarding the medical, my main concern (at least that I'm aware of) is my eyesight is quite poor (I'm around a -7 in both eyes) and it looks like the requirements are for a maximum of -6 for short-sightedness although if I'm reading it correctly it seems that it could be passable if referred for further assessment. Does anyone have any experience of this or if this is a total non-starter then it would be good to know!

I'd also like to get a better idea of starting pilot salaries. I'm happy to take a paycut from what I currently earn but it would be good to know what sort of figures to expect so I can adjust my lifestyle accordingly. I do have a mortgage so there is a limit to have far I can go. I've seen everything from 30k to 75k suggested online for a fresh pilot.

Any advice on the above would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Becoming a pilot.
 

Hi, I’m 15,16 this year and I am doing my GCSEs. I am going to be doing maths physics and chemistry at a level and am currently getting my microlight pilots license. I am wondering on the best option to become a commercial pilot as I love flying. I would like to get a uni degree in something physics based. I am also in the air cadets. I am looking for advice on the routes to go down and which one would be best for me. Thank you.

Work hard, get a job and keep flying. In fact get 2 jobs, or 3 if you can fit them in. Live at home with your parents, don't smoke or drink and definitely don't get anyone pregnant, and you'll be a commercial pilot by 21. That's literally all you have to do: You need 200 hours - it takes a long as it takes but do the necessary courses on the way and once you hit 200 you'll have a fATPL. Unfortunately microlights don't count, but have a look at getting your PPL on a TMG, they're cheap and your can convert to SEP easily, plus you can count 30 hours towards your 200.

Pilot training
 

Hi everyone, I'm from Vietnam and I'm graduating in this year and I'm looking for options to become a pilot. Should I join flight school all by myself and work my way to the airlines or pre-signing a contract with an airline first and join its training program? What are the benefits and drawbacks of both? I really need your opinion on this. Thank you in advance.

Hello!
You have several options:
Modular - better value for money, as you can pay for training with your own schedule and take it bit by bit.
Integrated - will require full financing, but will get you there faster. Some flight schools offer scholarships
MPL - straight away contract with airline, safest option, but need to check which airlines offer that.

Hope this helps.

Hey!

Pilot training and job requires a lot of dedication. If you have doubts before starting, you should think more. It is very intense training and afterwards job might require sacrificing some social life.

Academic qualifications.
 

Edited

Hi J2wannabe

There are lots of commercial pilots out there with little or no school qualifications so I shouldn't worry too much, that said you are unlikely to be accepted on to an airline 'sponsored' or integrated flight course as you stand. Nobody gives a jot about GCSEs results once you are over 21 & holding what really matters - a frozen ATPL.

I shouldn't waste your time going back to school but just get on with the flying via the Modular route (Class 1 Medical first then PPL, ATPLs, hour building etc. etc.), with your job you should have some flexibility to earn & learn at the same time. Do not underestimate the work required for the ATPLs. Most are not technically difficult but it's the volume of mostly useless rubbish in time available that is the killer. You need to be 110% focused & committed preferably with no baggage & are prepared to put your social life on hold for the duration, so it's short term pain for long term gain - attitude is everything.

I was an ATPL theory instructor (TKI) for over 20 years and without a doubt UK students biggest weakness is their standard of maths. One school I instructed at one time actually did a week of maths & physics prior to starting the ATPLs, so get yourself back into maths as you need to be able to manipulate basic formula, interpolate data tables, read graphs & do simple gross error calculations in your head.

Feel free to PM if you wish.

RichardH.

hi mate thanks for your response and taking the time, yeah my thoughts where the airlines don’t require any formal grades aside from strong ATPL results.

However the only thing putting me back is I may not even make it past the CV stage. I’ve heard some outfits receiving over 7000 applicants. I feel it’ll put me out of the running at the first hurdle.

Modular has been done before and it can be done again

Hi all,

I'm now in a position at the grand old age of 33 years old to fund my pilot training. I was so naïve back when I joined PPRUNE at 16 years olds - didn't realise the salary you need to fund such a dream.

I'm planning to start my PPL and obtain my class 1 medical. Being an professional pilot is a 2 - 5 year plan due to money, availability and family commitments.

However, would a PPL be a suitable test to establish if I am capable of getting through to fATPL and becoming a professional pilot? My maths/science isn't a subject I was strong at, but willing to work to refresh and train up the brain for this stuff.

Thanks,
R

None of it is particularly hard, it just takes perseverance. GCSE level maths. If you can drive a car then you can fly a plane. 2-5 years? If you've been saving until age 33, money isn't a problem so training should only take you a year give or take. As always, trial lesson aside, always get your class one medical before you start flying.

Ok. No one appears to have answered your questions or offered their thoughts.
Your eyesight may present an issue. Your Class 1 medical will let you know soon enough.

If you only get a UK CPL/ATPL you'll be restricted to only flying G-reg aircraft. Unless the UK rejoins EASA, that will remain the case. If you want both licences, then you'll have to do all the exams effectively twice. Yes, it's nuts... Of course, when you have experience, you can apply to the Gulf states and they'll take care of the licence validation.

You've answered your own question about staying in London. You could be lucky, but I would bet on moving away from London for a good few years. I moved 10,000km.

New CPL salaries? As ever, it depends on what/how/where. Personally, I'd budget a salary from £25K upwards. If you start instructing, half that. Yes, it's that bad. This of course, assumes you get a job after you finish your training. If you don't, you'll have to budget to keep your Instrument rating and medical current. The IR skills deteriorate pretty quickly.

Where to school? (US)
 

Considering US flight schools, but currently based in Scottsdale, AZ. I have a pair of degrees, no debt, and willing to take on my first loan to make this happen.
What are considered maybe the top 3 schools for quality of training and/or hiring potential & airline partner programs?
ATP and Aeroguard have come up often, both happen to be in AZ--do they make the cut? Skyborne in FL seemed tempting because of the Delta pipeline, but I'm slightly plartial to United or Alaska for personal reasons, but that doesn't matter if there's a clear choice for highest percent of working graduates.
Thank you!

In the US it really doesn't matter where you train. You can't go from flight school to an airline anyway. Your only choice is to become a Flight Instructor and get a job teaching for a year or two.

Ask this in r/Flying (reddit) for a better response, but from what I know. US is PPL -> CPL MEP etc -> FI instruct for 1500hrs to get your ATPL. Where you train etc doesn't hold much to any value, after all you've just spend the past 2-3 years breaking your back instructing in a 172! Go to the cheapest and count yourself lucky that your country gets aviation. Good luck

This doesn't seem to be such a hurdle in Europe, where we see people come out of an integrated ATPL(A) program and get FO seats with the airlines.
Why is that hour building such a crucial step in the US?

Because in the US you need an ATP to fly for an airline, in Europe you can be hired with a CPL.

Doesn't an ATPL(A) in Europe include the CPL part as well?
Most integrated training programs I've seen for ATPL(A) include a CPL with flight hours.

I'm pretty sure it does

Correct. An ATPL includes CPL and PPL privileges. But you can't get an ATPL straight out of flight school (unless you spend £1M+ renting a multi crew aircraft for 500 hours, which isn't really an option for most people!). When you graduate flight school you have a CPL. Then you get an FO job. Then you get 1500 hours. Then you get an ATPL.
So I'm sorry but you've never seen an ATPL integrated course - because they don't exist.

Impartial advice needed
 

Hi everyone,

So, I want to become a pilot and work for the airlines. I do have the means of funding through a mixture of parents and then financing the rest. I am looking at integrated vs modular and even the generation EasyJet programme (I know it’s not very popular on here but I am still considering it as an option due to the conditional employment)

However my wider issue- I am a law graduate and have a training contract secured at a big London firm (so that will be one year of law school (funded) followed by 2 years of training on a nice salary which would help me save up more of my own money). Now while I worked hard for this I don’t want to fall into the sunk cost fallacy.

I am wondering what others would do because I have always wanted to become an airline pilot which also offers a better work life balance than presumably 60hr weeks in London. But I’m also aware that this opportunity in London is a very good one and gives the fall back option. But I will be commiting myself to 3 years for something I don’t really want to do long term. In addition the SQE is also going to be quite intense study so to know I’m doing that for the sake of 2 years is a factor especially when the atpls are also very intense.

Would it be worth being patient? (I am also in the process of applying for Irish citizenship so In 2 years I will have the right to live and work in the EU)

Become a pilot. Law looks horrific in the city - 60 hour weeks? Try 80. And how many people actually get to sit there on £150K for very little work by 30 for a company that won’t work them outside their contact when practicing law?..

You’ll kick yourself forever if you don’t. Backup? Pfft, if you need a backup job because you can’t land one flying then that’s the time to get one. It’s unlikely you’ll need one. Spend three years doing law but get a flying job straight away and you’ve simply wasted three years staring at a computer screen researching articles that you care very little about. That’s three years not on the top payscale as a training captain.

To all aspiring junior birdmen…….before you post here with your life history etc, obtain a CLASS ONE MEDICAL, then seek the advice.

8% of males will fail due to a colour deficiency.
Best to find out without undue delay, then think about plan B for those unfortunate individuals.

for Pilot30
 

Yeah...lots of insane advice on this sub, really hope you don't make such a bold decision consulting internet strangers who could be anybody with intentions you don't know. Go talk to real people for advice.

An internet forum can cloud your decision since you risk overvaluing internet opinions, not wise when a training contract at a London law firm is at stake. Lots of older folks here, or people who've never worked in high skilled roles, that are out of touch. Nobody here will be accountable for your decisions. It's your parents money, they will be in this risk with you and nobody here will.

If you want to be a pilot and get trained without paying for it then join whichever air force your nationality allows you to! I too was a 15 year old wanabee pilot once. At 18 I joined the RAF, flew single seat supersonic aircraft when I was 20, was a 4 jet captain at 23, and have just completed my 50th year in military aviation(only in the sim these days though)! Of course if you want to just fly airliners from A to B then you'll need fork out a large sum of money unless you can get on an airline sponsored training program. Trust me, air to air combat or low level bombing is much more fun.

If you want to be a military pilot then do the above.

Sadly the above is as relevant as a BOAC 707 captain from Hamble extolling their cadet path. It’s really cool what you were able to do, but good luck being front line before 30 in today’s RAF… Get 1500 hours before 35 and you’re doing well. Again, if you want to be a military pilot that’s still fab. But the whole join the military then crossover thing to save some training cost just doesn’t hold water any more.

One thing you should figure out is if your potential law job will adjust for inflation or not, or if you are competent enough to put your savings into a reasonable investment that protects you against this. You don't want to end up wasting many years saving only to realize that training cost has increased by 50-100%.

Hi Pilot30
Well done on securing the law job first of all.
I'm on a similar track as to what you describe - but about 2 years ahead (I have 2 years of work experience done out of 3 year training contract). I work in finance (insurance/risk management). So far I've really enjoyed it - most importantly I've made friends for life (I am going to one of their weddings' next year!), I'm studying towards a professional qualification, and am getting lots of experience in an extremely challenging role.

Graduate roles like this in finance/law teach you a lot of things which fresh-faced cadets leaving secondary school and going to a flight school won't have or experience. Learning how to work in a team, work under stressful conditions, deal with commercial pressures and how to stand up for yourself are all extremely desirable characteristics for a pilot in today's CRM-focused world.

If you couldn't tell already - my view is that it would not be a waste for you to do the training contract and save money. I'm going modular and about halfway through my PPL, timing finishing my PPL with my professional exams so that I can hour build and take a loan out to accelerate the CPL/ME/IR/APS-MCC portion all in one go.
Whilst people (rightly) say you will miss out on 2/3 years of "training captain salary" - you will have enough years under your belt of flying by the time you retire, even if you are in your late 20s by the time you're in the flight deck.

Nowadays people our age want instant gratification etc. - I've satisfied my "craving" and FOMO by doing my PPL on the side every other weekend... It's very doable.
I don't think you'd regret doing your training contract - you might regret rushing into aviation so soon though. If you know you're going to get into it eventually, doing something else for a while will only make you a more attractive candidate (IMO).
My only piece of advice is to appreciate how difficult it can be to actually save money working in an expensive city like London/Dublin when you're young and enjoying yourself. But it sounds like all in all you've given the journey a good bit of thought.
Hope this helps a little :)

Training Captain salary FOMO
 

Impressive, the people I know who've secured training contracts are cut from a different cloth. To do that on top of flight training sounds incredibly tough.

I don't think it's bad having a few years experience in a high skilled role either.

How many pilots actually end up as training captains commanding salaries of £200k+ in reality though? Trying to jump ship quickly as possible to maximise career earnings when it's so far into the future that other things could bring to a stop is another thing to consider. You're not guaranteed anything.