But if the end goal, which is the important bit, is to be a pilot. Why bother?

Why not spend 20 years becoming a qualified surgeon. Why not 35 years, then get a licence and first flying job at 58?

Once you establish that what you genuinely want to do is fly aircraft for a living, I just don’t see why you would want to throw away years getting a bit of paper to put up in the hallway, which is likely all it’ll ever be used for.

As to your question about cash, training captains at most carriers will get close to that, it’s a well paid profession. Get that position at a BA/Virgin and you’ll be well North of £200K. Unless you spent 15 years building up a knowledge of litigating planning permission infractions, then you won’t have the time to get there.

I understand your view - but the "why bother" part for me isn't an option. I need a high-paying job to accelerate my earnings. If I could work in Tesco or work in a large insurance company in a corporate setting, I wouldn't ask why bother but instead, why not. My post centered around those for whom financing (loans, equity release etc.) aren't an option - ie. if you need to save yourself, you might as well make it a useful experience for you.

Easy answer. Take the training contract. Those are HARD to come by so well done. Complete your training via the modular route while training. Time modular training with training contract and only quit your high paying law job when you secure your first job. Yes it’s your dream to fly but also don’t be stupid. No guarantee on how long it’ll take you to find a job after training. As someone who’s missus just completed their training context, do the smart thing. Also aviation is very cyclical. You may get made redundant at some point. You have the backup profession to do contract work until you get another flying job. Take the training contract

Career change risk
 

I am considering a career change from my current profession working at a bank. Due to the cost of the training we were told about at school, becoming a pilot was never an option. I am 30 now, and have sufficient cash to pay for modular training. It seems it will be max £70k, but there could be a number of ways to save if careful.

How much risk is there involved for a career changer in terms of not being able to get a job at the end of the training (up to 24 months after starting)?

I have a degree from a top uni, have had decent reviews all the way through my career, so no competency or personality issues that could prevent me getting a job. How difficult is it out there to land your first role?

I would always be able to get a contract role, but could look very stupid if i have spent all the money and time retraining and there being no jobs. This is the only thing holding me back currently.

There is always a risk, ultimately. But looking at your background it’s lower.

Genuine life experience, presumable a pretty solid work ethic to have done at least relatively well in banking, good academic foundations etc. You’re not just another 18 year old that daddy has sent through a pilot factory.

If you had a licence today you’d be able to join one of quite a few airlines. You’d have Jet2, Ryanair, Wizz, BA, Loganair all open to you. If nothing cataclysmic changes in the world within the next two years it looks like the picture will only get better. But there is a non-zero chance of something cataclysmic happening. But even those who graduated in April 2020 are more or less all employed now.

The real risk to me would be not doing it. Could you get through the next 30 years starting at P/L spreadsheets in an office without trying the flying gig, and still be truly happy. Or will you get to 55, the point at which it does become too late, and be furious with yourself for not following the path?

I thought Jet2 and Loganair wanted some commercial experience and won’t just hire someone with ME-IR-CPL-UPRT-APS-MCC (at least officially)?

J2 pilot apprenticeship. Loganair seems to be as and when but definitely a first airline job for a good number of people.

Need some advice on different pathways to become a commercial pilot (AUS)
 

Hello,
I am almost 18 and i am set on becoming a pilot. I have spoken to many people and i have been told to take so many different routes its overwhelming.
Right now i need to decide whether i should go for my RPL because i have heard that you cant get a Cadetship if you have previous flying training. I am looking at applying for the REX and Qantas cadetships mid next year. (Virgin and Jetstar are not offering at the moment)
These are the pathways im looking at:

1. get a cadetship
2. if i don't get a cadetship get my CPL and then get a job in Alice springs or darwin doing charter OR become a flight instructor and get the hours up until i can apply for a commercial aviation job.
3. if i don't get a cadetship apply for an apprenticeship in aircraft maintenance and while i am doing the apprenticeship get my CPL and once i finish then get a job flying

Also i spoke to someone who recommended the Bush Pilot pathway then once you hit 1500 hours apply for the cargo airlines in the U.S. Wondering if this is a good route?
Also is the Griffith Uni aviation degree worth it? Does it help me get a job?
I am really stuck deciding and i with option 3 i dont really want to spend 2 years doing a diploma, spending $50k in training then spend another 2 years on the apprenticeship then on top of that its another $130k for my CPL. I definitely want a backup in case the industry falls like it did in COVID
Also my long term goal is to do long haul flights for an overseas airline such as emirates
any advice is appreciated and thanks

Hi there,

You answered a few questions yourself already.

Go for a Professional Diploma and or a USEFUL degree.
Many of us who did not have a proper pre education ended up doing unskilled labour during Covid as a Pilots License is not recognized as a Skilled worker diploma.

If you wanna work in the US, you need a Permit to live and work in the US, but Aussies such as yourself have a kind of way to get the E3 Visa relatively easy as there is a certain agreement about that between Australia and the US.

Once again, have a backup plan. That doesnt need to be Uni, but can be professional bachalor as well.

I dont know if in Australia there is a scene of Glider Flying. That could be a great option to do in the meanwhile 😄.

Good look and Happy New Year 😄✈️

EU citizenship
 

Hey , this is my first time posting here and have a question
i wanted to be a pilot my whole life and i live in italy .
I can apply for EU citizenship in 5years and right now i only have EU permanent residence ( unlimited residence right ) and i was wondering if can work for let's say Ryanair wizz air or any regional airline without citizenship when i graduate flight school.
I would love to know before i embark on this aviation journey or go to university instead.
Thanks for reading :)

You're in an enviable position. As an Australian you can do all your training in the US and in 2 years be flying a Jet. The cheapest and controversial option is don't bother with CASA training - get an F1 visa and get all your FAA certificates, work in the US as an flight instructor then stay on an E3.

Hello everybody!

I'm 28 and from Hungary. I'm currently doing my PPL with around 30-ish hours, and have been working inside and close to the aviation industry for a long time now.
I would like to finish my PPL and after that my dream is to be flying biz jets (Or the Ryanair/Wizzair route is fine by me as well). I will soon have around 30.000 EUR of funds availabel for me.
I wish to ask for your advice on my next steps.

• I have an option to take an integrated post-gradual school with Govermental funds (interest free) which can be started to be paid back when I'm working.
  It costs around 63.000 EUR and the funds can be payed fully with this governmental fund.
  The School is Airwin Budapest, which is close to where I live now. It provides 239 flight hours with AUPRT+APS MCC. Of course no type rating.
• The second option is of course the modular route for which I will have around 30.000 EUR. I have read it is not enough for the whole PPL to cockpit route

My questions are following:
Is it possible to land a job in the EU for a biz jet with around 240 Hours fresh out of integrated school?
If not, how much money would I need to have for a 737 type rating, or is it possible to bond with RYR another airline in the EU?
I know it's not this thread but if you wish you can share your 2 cents, if you think it's possible for a PPL to cockpit route modula from 30.000 EUR.

Thank you in advance,
Adam

Unless you either know someone, namely the person who owns the jet, or you can bring something else to the table, it is practically impossible for a low houred pilot to get a job on a bizjet. Usual numbers are a min of 1500 hours, 500 multipilot, ATPL and in many cases, experience on type or similar operations.

Looking around Europe at the moment, most jobs involve A320 series of aircraft. Boeing's having a bit of a time at the moment. Buying a rating does come with it's own pitfalls. They are very expensive to keep current...

Thanks for your answer! Do you think a lot of companies offer bonded or financed type ratings?

Hi guys,

I’m 17 years old, I’m from Poland and I’ve been really doing research about flight schools, ways of becoming a pilot etc. I’m planning on going the ATPL integrated in an airline academy program (I’ve got some choices) once I graduate high school but my question is, because I don’t want to do anything else in life and never wanted should I go to university/college? I mean I guess you don’t need a degree to be a commercial pilot and it sure does provide some stability and a plan B but im technically guaranteed a job.

AD27 It depends on what you're bringing to the table. If you have extensive relevant experience etc, you might get bonded. It does depend on the company. If you're a freshly minted CPL, then there's a good chance you'll have to finance the rating either up front or with a reduced salary for a while. Companies that historically have a higher turnover of staff tend to expect you to finance the rating.

@320
Will the university or college degree saddle you with debt? If so, don't bother. A degree with no experience is pretty useless after a couple of years. Being able to drive a forklift or a semi trailer is probably more useful than a degree as a back up plan.

You're lucky. You have rich parents. Get the degree as well.

Hey matey, just weigh the risks of each option and do as you please. There are a lot of factors to take into account though.

What I can say is that many people your age are unsure about their career paths; it's part of growing up. Dreaming of being a pilot might seem like a way to avoid choosing between unexciting career options, but most of us have probably faced the same dilemma.

Unfortunately, only a fortunate few land a job shortly after completing flight school. For the others it can become a real challenge and take a while. Some even end up completely outside of aviation. In between, it can be a long, tough grind, both mentally and financially, especially if you wind up in a low-skilled job.

Remember, there are no guarantees in aviation. I've seen it firsthand. People get turned down during initial training, type rating, OCC, LIFUS, you name it, for various reasons—poor performance, airlines shutting down, or industry shifts. Just imagine being told, "Sorry, your OCC is canceled; we don't need flight crew right now." (I've seen it!) And that example is a few years ahead, while you're just starting out.

We all tend to believe that those things won't happen to us, and perhaps they won't happen to you. But it's definitely something worth considering.

So, here's my advice (aside from finances): take some time to mature, think about what interests you beyond aviation, and consider pursuing a degree in that area. At 17, even if you only earn a Bachelor's degree, you'll still be just 20. That's quite young to start flight training.

I agree that the depth is something to consider. However, in Northern Europe, having a degree, even without experience, can pay off. Many entry-level white-collar jobs require candidates to have a bachelor's degree, so not having one could put you at the bottom of the pile. It could be especially beneficial if you live in a country that has a considerably bigger pay gap between white-collar and blue-collar jobs. I don't know if that holds true for Poland though.

Looking ahead, I see having a Plan B as a long term, and not just a short-term solution. If you never land that flying job, working as a forklift driver might not offer much in terms of career advancement or mental stimulation, unless, of course, driving a forklift is your true aspiration..

Personally, I'm biased for getting a degree. I did it myself before starting flight training and it worked out great. It gave me a nice paycheck, valuable experience, a strong CV, and the peace of mind that if I lost my job in the deck tomorrow, I'd be back in an office next week.

I'm not "My parents gave me 61k for flight training" rich (or at least not the full price). I was thinking about financing the integrated training with a loan or for example a another route, going to the Wizzair academy program or something simmilar if even exists which takes away from your paycheck to fund it, as far as I've read.

No degree and with a loan, that already sounds pretty bad.

Hi African_TrouserSnake My caveat with the degree is the "no experience" bit. Sounds like you got a job relevant to the degree. Great. That's ideal especially if you can pay off the student loan (if you needed one). I got both my degrees while working ;) I haven't missed student life as I worked at a university for 8 years paying for my flight training. Fun times indeed.

I tend to agree. More education is never a bad thing, and you never know where you can put your degree skills to use in aviation. Many pilots end up in the office at some point in their career, where suddenly those stats and creative and technical writing courses begin to make more sense. For some, like me, education becomes a hobby in its own right, so having a degree or two is nothing more than the end result of that hobby. I'd argue that in many ways it's a pretty cheap hobby compared to others, but I digress.

Not all degrees are created equal if you are looking to simply pad your resume. Just because you have a degree in a field does not mean you can immediately return to that field should you find yourself an out-of-work pilot, which is what most suggest is the reason for getting the degree. Many degrees are useless after only a few years if you don't continue to study or work in the related field. Therefore, my typical suggestion is to get a generalized degree that you could build upon in the future, but not so specific that you may as well not hold that degree later five or ten years later. Alternatively, you could mix your passions. We have two pilots at my airline who hold doctorates and who split their time 50/50 between flying and research, and many more who have built a business around their education or who continue to study so they can use their degree later on.

Yeah, I partially agree. In fields like STEM, having recent or enough past experience matters. But it's not as black-and-white as some make it out to be. Having a degree doesn't just become useless after a few years.

You've likely come across vacancies that read requirements like: "Bachelor’s/Master's degree or equivalent practical experience," without specifying the area of study.
Institutions awarding BSc or MSc degrees stick to established procedures and undergo audits to ensure their programs meet certain standards, both nationally and internationally. As a result this allows employers to get an insight of your abilities, whether the company is from Norway or China.

Unfortunately, being a pilot doesn't usually count as equivalent experience. Many pilots w/o a degree have voiced complaints about this on LinkedIn following the pandemic, being limited by such requirements, despite being fully capable of performing the work. Though anecdotal, it might be worth considering in your evaluation.

Recommended school
 

Hello guys i have been looking at schools from all the world but its a bit hard to choose.Thats why i made this threat i really need help or someone just giving me advice where and what school is the best and fast to take your INTEGRATED ATPL.I have no experience in aviation but i really wanna become a pilot and learn everything.My budget is around 80.000€ or a bit more country doesnt matter i just have a quality school with good flying hours and hoping to finish it in 2 years or 2 and half.Thank you guys in Advance

Hi guys, what do you think of training in Poland ? Do you recommand ?

go for it! To my mind with the salaries you will eventually end up getting the risk in your situation is fairly low. Otherwise you might regret not having tried it before it´s too late.

All aircraft manufacturer predict massive pilot shortages for the upcoming decades. Someone has to fly all the aircraft that are being ordered. Additionally the baby boomer are retiring. All good arguments you will get a job one day.

Hello, short question- This is the only thing that it keeps me on hold.
After I finish fATPL with 200 hours and I will not have the money for type rating, I have any chances to get an airline jobs with a paid type rating and a bonded period to airline company( in Europe)? Also, a FI in Europe ehat salary have?

Currently 16 UK, just finished gcses. Aspiring to be a pilot and have a few questions
 

Everyone on Reddit told me to come here so here I am. I have just finished my gcses and I have a 2-3 month holiday now and I want to get some flight lessons and experience in. I first looked at biggin hill flight lessons but they are extremely overpriced, 5 hours being around £2250. After looking and researching a bit more I have arrived to the conclusion that redhill offers a decent price. It’s also near me, it’s around 220 for 60 mins on a two seater. As I want to get some hours in and the fact that I have no prior experience and I want to know more about piloting is this a good way to go about it? Fortunately for me money isn’t really a big issue, I would just like to know what I can do this summer to get as much flight experience that will benefit me in the future and ofc have some fun. But are there better alternatives? Btw I am planning to go sixth form and flight academy after. I’ve got many questions about this as well but since it’s quite early I don’t think excessive research on this is necessary right now. I suppose I am going to be 17 soon in a bout 4 months, is it time for me to look at flight schools?

It's a good opportunity to see if you and flying like each other (and the school - try others as well) , but before you do any serious training get a Class 1 medial. Be wary of doing integrated training (you mentioned flight academy) - DO NOT pay the fees up front. Treat it like any business decision, use due diligence, the way you will have to when flying anyway.

Karim.29 Go and do a trial lesson at your potential flight school (these hours count) & see how you get on with school/club, your instructor & aircraft. Assuming you are happy then CONSISTENCY is key you need to be booking ideally 2 lessons per week as several will end up being cancelled due weather etc. Choosing a relatively local airfield is a good idea as you know the area, less tired travelling, weather likely to be similar to home.
You will need a Class 2 medical before you go solo but as paco says get a Class 1 if you are thinking of going commercial eventually.

In theory with 2 to 3 months available you could be well on course to your PPL by September if you booked a lesson everyday or even two. When I started 50 years ago I took 2 weeks holiday from work & flew twice a day (subject weather) to get consistency during the circuit phase. However you seem to be saying you just want to try it and get a few hours in? but then might stop? If this is the case other than a trial lesson or two you would be wasting your money as you will almost be back at square one with a significant break. So either fully commit or don't do it until you are certain.

Hi everyone - would be very grateful for some advice.

I am based in the UK and it has been a lifelong dream of mine to become a pilot. I have done research online and whilst it is my dream, I am well aware of the pros and cons of the career (as there are with any career!). I fortunately have an offer on the easyJet MPL scheme and I also hold a Class 1 medical. Whilst I understand it's not a perfect scheme, it's one that seems to suit my preferences.

I am 25 and a recently qualified accountant and wanted to get the opinion of some UK pilots as to whether you would recommend the career change? Thankfully I have very few commitments at this stage in my life, but nonetheless would be great to get some opinions before making the jump!

Thanks and appreciate your help!

Ask yourself was it a life long dream to become an accountant?

Read the foreword to Jonathan Livingston Seagull and let go of the plant......

Hi All,

Just recently joined the forum after starting my research into obtaining an ATPL.

Short introduction: I'm located in Brussels, Belgium, close to the Airport. After obtaining my Bachelor in Law I decided to go work in our family business, 5 years later my parents decided to go on retirement and sell the business. I decided not to take it over because I was dreaming of being a pilot one day. Visited several flight school to get a taste of the program and the costs coming along with it. Covid hit, and so was the aviation industry. I decided to change my route and went for a Masters in Management in order to position myself better in the job market. Obtained it in 2023 and started working at DHL. Now one year later I'm earning well and have a good position, but everyday I'm confronted with aviation and started to think about it more and more..

In the meanwhile I turned 32, and I'm wondering If getting an ATPL is 'too late'? Is being in your 30's a disadvantage when starting your first job in aviation?

Many thanks,
All the best,

Arno

I started at that age. Got CPL but didn't go to the airlines. Still flying 45 years on. PM if you wish.

Hi Karim,

I'd say don't overthink it (Like i did for years and years!). What you're looking for is a trial lesson, call redhill and tell em you want a trial lesson, that will be your first hour of training. After that just tell them you'd like more! Earning a PPL in itself will be a pretty intense course of study alongside the practical training so start soon and fly oftern.

How's it looking in terms of time to study? Reckon you can manage it in the time you'll be in 6th form?

Oh snap! Well i hope it isn't because i'm in the same boat as you! To give you another point to think about, you will be 65 someday, how would you feel looking back on it and never having tried?

I don't think we're at a disadvantage at the 30ish stage, but pilots before us have made it, even well into their 40s some people were taken on as cadets by BA.

Go for a trial flight anywhere, when I took off I knew then and there, without any way of financing this thing I've got to at least try my best! It might make things clear for you too.

At last, someone has taken my advice and is playing the long game! Transfer into one of the DHL airlines ASAP, get your licence and then it's just a waiting game.

Help needed :)
 

Hello all,
First post on here. I was told by pilots to ask questions on pprune.
I have always wanted to be a pilot and I am going to become one. I just want some guidance from experienced people...
I live in Ireland and I would like to fly the A330 or A350 (preferably joint type rating) and of course I would like to fly for Aer Lingus. I was thinking of aiming for the Future Pilot Programme. If not maybe AFTA, or another well known college.
Recently, I was looking into Iberia. I would love to fly for either and fly the A350 or A330. I speak a decent level of Spanish and I learn it in School.
What I am asking is; which has a better quality of life, better salary, etc??
Thanks

Let me guess, 330/350 because that's what you fly in the SIM? There are few cold hard truths about aviation: You rarely end up where you thought you would. You take whatever job is available at the time and you go wherever you need to to make that happen. Sure, you might want to go to Aer Lingus on the 350 and you might actually get that as your first job - but there is a 99% likelihood that won't happen. I'm just trying to manage your expectations. Your first job might be an ATR in Croatia, followed by a 737 in Budapest. You might eventually get that AL A350 job, but you might also lose interest or find something better along the way. It's like jumping into a river - you just get sucked along.

Your questions now should be about medicals, EASA vs UK (get both!), where to get my PPL etc. Also, if and when you start a PPL, pack up the flight sim and forget everything you think you know.