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-   -   Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread! (https://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/403410-modular-v-integrated-merged-look-here-before-starting-new-thread.html)

Luke3514 30th April 2018 08:54

ICAO CPL to EASA fATPL
 
Good day all.

I am Looking to Convert my current ICAO CPL to an EASA fATPL.

I currently Hold an ICAO Class1 Medical, ICAO MCC, etc.

Please can someone with regards to this as I am moving to the UK very soon.

I believe that I need to do the EASA Class 1 medical before I start with anything. (this costs aropund 550 pounds)

Would Just like to find out from anyone that can help what would be the best and cheapest ropute for me to go about to finish all the required training and then be able to get a job in the UK.

Please help with:
1) Ground School Stugesstions and costs
2) Flight School Suggestions and costs
3) Who will be able to hire me after finishing the training. (Would love to work for the likes of EasyJet, RyanAir, etc)

I currently have 1500Hrs Total time, 1200Hrs Multicrew (Cessna Grand Caravan - multicrew in RSA ehen more than 9 pax carried), 40Hrs Night

all help would be greatly appriciated


PelicanSquawk 12th May 2018 16:13

Modular Flight Schools to Consider
 
Hi All,

I am just starting my ATPL theory exams, and I have realised that I best get on with booking my CPL MEIR somewhere, as waiting lists seems long... for example Oct 2019 is the earliest for Bartolini Air. I plan on getting through there ATPL's in 10 - 12 months, as well as my hours building.

So these are the schools I am so far considering, and I plan on visiting them.

Diamond Flight academy
Bartolini
BAA Training
Egnatia
STO Flight training Stolkholme


Are there any others I have missed which I should be considering? I am not including Oxford, L3 or FTE Jerez, due to costs.

I know there are several threads on schools, but I guess reputation and opinions are forever changing, I would also like to hear if people think one is worth going for even if it means waiting an additional 6 months for a place, such as Bartolini?

The other thing I am unsure of is this "Wings alliance" they have approved training providers... but I'm not sure how much use they would be, and if its worth sticking to only the schools they endorse... I would appreciate any opinion on them.

One other thing to add is... I don't fancy a "rushed course" as in I am not attracted to a school saying it only takes 8 weeks or whatever, I would rather the take a bit longer is my preference... but I guess the good schools need to get people through quickly.

button push ignored 12th May 2018 20:55

PelicanSquawk.
You have to consider what your living situation is.
And your every day expenses.
It all comes into play, as to where the best school for you would be.
Every situation is different.
No two people are the same.

I had a part-time high paying evening and week-end job, that allowed me the freedom to train when and where I wanted.
And a place to stay for free.
Without it, things would have been much different.

You are listed as London.
If you are North East London.
You may want to consider Stapleford.
If your South London, then FTA needs to be considered.
West London, then Airways.
You will pay more to do it from home, but may save in the long run.

But if you are a free agent.
Then I’d pack up the car and head for Eastern Europe.
Bartolini and Baltic are very good.
As is Diamond.
I’d stay away from Greece.

Scheduling seems to be the name of the game now.
It’s more a question of where you can get in at, than what’s best.
I was thinking that if you booked up Bartolini for Oct 2019.
Could you go from zero to 175 hours and ATPL written passed in that time frame?
Maybe, maybe not.
Time waits for no man, and no school is worth the wait.
If you already have a PPL and are working on your ATPLs, then Oct 19 isn’t going to work either.
You can over think a situation.
Life doesn’t go according to plan very often.
I like to do things when I’m good and ready.
I often had to fall back and regroup to plan my next move.
I often had to stop and make more money too.

I’ve been unsure as to what exactly Wings Alliance is too.

PelicanSquawk 12th May 2018 21:43


Originally Posted by button push ignored (Post 10145122)
PelicanSquawk.
You have to consider what your living situation is.
And your every day expenses.
It all comes into play, as to where the best school for you would be.
Every situation is different.
No two people are the same.

I had a part-time high paying evening and week-end job, that allowed me the freedom to train when and where I wanted.
And a place to stay for free.
Without it, things would have been much different.

You are listed as London.
If you are North East London.
You may want to consider Stapleford.
If your South London, then FTA needs to be considered.
West London, then Airways.
You will pay more to do it from home, but may save in the long run.

But if you are a free agent.
Then I’d pack up the car and head for Eastern Europe.
Bartolini and Baltic are very good.
As is Diamond.
I’d stay away from Greece.

Scheduling seems to be the name of the game now.
I was thinking that if you booked up Bartolini for Oct 2019.
Could you go from zero to 175 hours and ATPL written passed in that time frame?
Maybe, maybe not.
Time waits for no man.
And I’m not waiting on any school.
If you already have a PPL and are working on your ATPLs, then Oct 19 isn’t going to work out.
You can over think a situation.
Life doesn’t go according to plan very often.

I’ve been unsure as to what exactly Wings Alliance is too.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I already have my ATPL, so I think the ATPL exams in a year is very doable, so yeah I guess October 2019 is too far away... I'm only getting older. My plan is to stop working entirely before I go do the CPL MEIR, so location isn't an issue, in fact I'm sure to enjoy the experience in another country more than staying in London.

I've emailed all the schools, and I'll see what their responses are. Diamond seems fully booked also... Bartolini did say I could be on a waiting list, but I don't want to end up waiting until Oct 2019.

button push ignored 13th May 2018 02:40

You can’t always get what you want.
But you’ll find sometimes, you’ll get what you need.

You may find exactly what you want at home.
Sure a road trip would have been fun.
Save it for a A320 type rating.

Don’t e-mail.
Go visit the three local ones, SFC, FTA, Airways.
Also add BCFT to the list, and talk to the chief.
I bet you’ll know exactly where to go having spoken to all four.

Have you done your hour building?
Rudestuff had some spectacularly good advice on how to double and triple dip.
We all know that night should be combined with cross-country.
But I had never considered doing 50 hours under the hood before.

PelicanSquawk 13th May 2018 12:14


Originally Posted by button push ignored (Post 10145261)
You can’t always get what you want.
But you’ll find sometimes, you’ll get what you need.

You may find exactly what you want at home.
Sure a road trip would have been fun.
Save it for a A320 type rating.

Don’t e-mail.
Go visit the three local ones, SFC, FTA, Airways.
Also add BCFT to the list, and talk to the chief.
I bet you’ll know exactly where to go having spoken to all four.

Have you done your hour building?
Rudestuff had some spectacularly good advice on how to double and triple dip.
We all know that night should be combined with cross-country.
But I had never considered doing 50 hours under the hood before.

I'm going to be doing my hours building as I study for my ATPLs. I'm hoping to get a school which focuses mainly on getting people through the CPL MEIR, that way being structured with that aim in mind, and training alongside others in the same boat. I get the impression that many of the UK schools tend to do a bit of everything, where as the likes of Diamond and Bartolini seem a bit more focussed... I could be wrong. I'll have to enquire with all of them.

PigeonVoyageur 13th May 2018 15:34

PelicanSquawk
Put Atlantic Flight Training Academy (AFTA) in Cork on your list. They are very good.

button push ignored 13th May 2018 18:21

It’s true that Diamond and Bartolini are focused solely on the CPL IR-ME, and are not a ‘jack of all trades’.
But with so many options open to people, as to the type of hour building and training completed to date.
Then how can their be any consistency to the type and quantity of training required.
Everybody would be on a ‘train to proficiency’ regiment.

I have met people with no more than basic primary VFR trainer experience, to people who have flown all over the Continent in company aircraft.
The amount of time difference needed was immense .

I don’t claim or profess to know all.
I’m just trying to avoid mistakes for those I try to help.
Atlantic and Fly in Spain are also on my recommended list.

But where to go?
Well thats the million dollar question.
There is no correct answer.
Just wrong ones.
And wrong ones have advertisements.

Just go do it as soon as possible.

Scouseflier85 25th May 2018 10:09

Could someone be so kind as to give a ball park price for modular training zero hours I was hoping it could be done for £50k. Any insight would be hugely appreciated many thanks sf85

AspiringPilot28 25th May 2018 19:45


Originally Posted by Jaair (Post 10073679)
1. Do bigger European airlines still consider pilots who went the modular route?
Definitely. Ryanair, Jet2 and Flybe to name a few.

2. Will airlines still consider me, even if I did 'fail' half of my ATPLs at first attempt all those years ago?
Good question, but I thought ATPL results 'expire' after a few years if you haven't finished the course? But to answer the question, it depends on the airline as some may be picky. I believe Ryanair allow 2 fails, but I am basing that on something I heard a few months ago. Note that ATPL fails are merely a form of reducing the CV pile size. A bad set of ATPL results does not mean that the candidate is a bad pilot as I've heard there's a lot of crap needed to be learnt as well as ambiguous exam questions.

I would never let that be a deciding factor as to whether or not to start training. If you are determined and have the passion then worry not, you will eventually be flying for a living. It may not be within a week, month or year after graduating but if you stay within aviation and don't give up then you will eventually find yourself in the RHS.

3. Are the theoretical elements possible through distance learning (e.g. ground school)?
Yes, e.g. BGS. Search around PPRune to find lots of people having done their ATPL while married with kids and working a full time job. A lot of them are also now flying.

4. Is modular the way to go in my situation? Any other route that can be done ‘part-time'?
Pretty sure most integrated schools are full time. So if you want to do it all part-time then modular would definitely be the way. With the current pilot forecast for the next 2 decades it seems like pilots will be in much greater demand. Some people have mentioned that there has been a decrease in demand over the past 12 months but it could be explained by the sudden supply of pilots from Monarch/Air Berlin.

5. What schools are recommended within easy reach of London (especially for the PPL)? I’m willing to travel up to 2 hours by train - no problem - so long as the school is reputable and my qualifications respected as I continue doing the licences/courses.

6. Any other input is much appreciated :)
I got my PPL a few years ago and starting my ATPL in summer after graduating from University. Would be happy to keep in touch with you or anyone else who reads this so feel free to shoot me a PM. We all have the same goal here. :)

Hey hows it going. Can't PM you, I think its cos I'm a new user.

I'm going Uni this year, hoping to do PPL during 2-3 year of uni, and was wondering to complete my PPL earlier and leave it for a year or two before beginning my ATPL.. Did that affect what you've already learnt during your PPL as I assume ATPL would be a building block to the PPL or would u recommend doing all modular courses back to back, as I'm impatient to learn to fly asap. Thanks

Wandering Paddy 17th June 2018 11:21

Anyone know any reputable schools in the north of England?

Chani 18th June 2018 14:00

reputable schools in the north of England..
 
have a look at pptaviation it seem like a good school, myself am planning to enroll on their full time modular course.

Wandering Paddy 18th June 2018 16:39


Originally Posted by Chani (Post 10175886)
have a look at pptaviation it seem like a good school, myself am planning to enroll on their full time modular course.

Thank you. I'm also looking at doing it in Sweden (I started a contract here recently). Honestly, I'd prefer not to live in Blighty, however, if I have to move there to train, it'll be nowhere near London.

ab_initio_Richard 19th June 2018 13:24

Flight Schools
 
Hi all....

I am currently looking into begin pilot training next Spring.

I've been looking into various routes (modular vs integrated) and different flight schools. I'm minded to go for theab initio ATPL (not affiliated with any particular airline). I'm leaning towards this as opposed to modular as I'd like to get the training done in one hit. I have a wife and young children to support, so can't be out of work too long, and want to give the training my full attention rather than trying to do it alongside a day job. I can't afford to go on an airline affiliated ab initio ATPL, and from what I've read, you're paying nearly double for not a lot more.

I've found three potential flight schools so far that are around, or close to my limited budget, and I'm wondering if anyone has experience or knowledge of these. In rough order of preference, these are:

1) Aviation Career Centre - Slovenia
2) OneAir - Malaga
3) PTT Aviation

Can anyone recommend any other schools that provide EASA training, and where I could get to a frozen ATPL for approximately £60k? If outside of the UK, then I'll also need to factor in location as the family will hopefully temporarily relocate with me.

Thanks in advance for any insight.


AdamQuinny 19th June 2018 19:46

Budding Commercial Pilot, nearly 16
 
Hi,
I am new to these forums, but I've been researching for many months now.
I have just finished my GCSEs and I have the entire summer to look deeper into my dream career. At the moment I have firm eyes on short-haul international flights with a selection of British airlines (EasyJet, Thomas Cook, Jet2, TUI and Ryanair). I see the various licence types CPL, ATPL etc and I have looked at various training centres within the UK. Now after speaking to Pilot George, I have learnt that it is best to stick with popular training centres due to their Airline Links. With L3 I think that the training bond solution is good although I suspect only BA and EasyJet are actually committed to paying the bond back to me once employed. I also choose L3 over CAE due to the financing, L3 goes through Optimum Finance and CAE goes through Pegasus. Borrowing £96,800 and £90,000 respectively from either finance partner shows that L3 is considerably more affordable. Paying £96,800 over 25 years at 4.9% works out at £560 per month in comparison to £90,000 over 10 years (maximum duration) at 7.9%, ending up with £1,087.20 per month, almost double the amount per month. So let's say I go with L3, I have a variety of courses to choose from, personally, I would go for an integrated APTL due to the range of airline employers rather than limiting myself to a set career with BA or EasyJet. So paying £560 per month seems affordable, would it be worthwhile saving £15,000 prior to starting the course to cover the loan repayments when I'm training and the first 6-9 months after leaving training (the period of time to find my first airline job)? Once I have landed my first job then I can cover the repayments for certain, I will also have to think about transportation once I land my first job (I am planning on saving money by not getting a car whilst I am training).
So thank you for reading, I just have a few questions in mind -
  • Am I eligible for student finance?
  • Are my repayment forecasts correct?
  • How can I prepare over the next two years for my training?
I have various spreadsheets and documents where I have accumulated a wealth of information for various courses, jobs and opportunities. I believe that I am extremely passionate about my future in the aviation industry, this is pushing me forward along with my academic ability whilst money is pulling me back.
Thank you very much for your attention

HowardJR 20th June 2018 07:17

I'm training in Aviation Career Center for the past year now... came here with 1/2 PPL already done, finished the PPL, started ATPL & HB and now I'm on IR. I wasn't familiar with them but the price was very reasonable for me so I took my chance and I don't regret it. Guys are very flexible and helpful, training is progressing quickly (one student was in hurry and just finished IR in one month), airport is very nice - international but no traffic :ok:, a lot of attention is given on student's independence (especially on HB)... except the Slovenian CAA is a bit slow and you have to push them a bit :p

Basil Fawlty1 20th June 2018 09:40


Originally Posted by ab_initio_Richard (Post 10176658)
Hi all....

I am currently looking into begin pilot training next Spring.
.

Hi Richard - why not make a start on your PPL now whilst you’re still working ? You should comfortably have it out of the way by next spring if you start it this summer.

As well as telling you if flying really is for you, doing it this way will also mean you’ll need less time off work when you start training full time.

Wandering Paddy 20th June 2018 09:52


Originally Posted by Chani (Post 10175886)
have a look at pptaviation it seem like a good school, myself am planning to enroll on their full time modular course.


I called PPT and they are charging 10k for a PPL. Surely there are more competitive options in the North of Engerland? I was recently told you'd get one for 8k

emilio123 20th June 2018 20:54


Originally Posted by Wandering Paddy (Post 10177269)
I called PPT and they are charging 10k for a PPL. Surely there are more competitive options in the North of Engerland? I was recently told you'd get one for 8k

Lol where I live it's 14-16K Euro's MINIMUM hours including class 1 initial, LPE, RT, exam fees and license fees.

Maverick97 20th June 2018 21:07

Hi Adam,
It's nice to see how passionate you are.
First things first get you class 1 medical. It should be the very first thing you consider, because without it a commercial flying career is a non starter!
I've just turned 21 and I've been researching flight training since the age of 18 once I finished my A-Levels. Within that time I've changed my mind between modular and integrated training dozens of times. I sat an assessment for CAE Oxford. I was quite optimistic that I would stroll out of training into the right hand seat of an A320 and if I'm perfectly honest I probably could have. Easyjet was hiring waves upon waves of fresh cadets from CTC, CAE and FTE. I looked at my finances exactly the same way you are right now. 'If I cut this cost I can save this, If I don't do this I can afford this.' It turned out that parents were willing to help me fund my training. They relied on my proposal to them about the way the market was. It would of been very very tight but it was doable. I made a mature decision to not go ahead with that route. I don't think I would of been able to handle my training knowing that once I walk out the doors the crippling debt will swallow myself and my family home if I didn't secure that job fairly quickly. I started working on the ground for Jet2 the same year and got speaking to a pilot apprentice that was about to start his type rating on the 737NG. He'd paid 40,000 for his training. Don't be too quick to turn your nose up at the modular route. If money is an issue you will get the exact same piece of paper as an integrated student would. Airlines now do not care what your training background is aslong as you have a strong record with good results and first time passes. I mean look at Easyjet, the one airline who notoriously only recruit intergrated cadets opened up places for cadets from any training back ground and look at Ryanair who have just reduced their type rating bond!

I'm mid PPL now, flying 4 times per week all paid for by working, looking at moving straight onto the ATPLs after, with some hours building done in the north of England. A kind FO at Jet2 has a share in a Cessna he's looking to sell. Looking to have my full training done in the next 2 years!
Honestly Adam, you're only 15 mate so research every possible thing you can, build a network do some PPL flying and you'll thank yourself later!!



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