Second time lucky? Going modular...
 

I was enrolled into the CTC Wings program back in 2012 but had to leave as the reality of paying back the hefty loan was just not going to work with the climate at the time. I was very anxious about this, couldn’t focus and landed up failing most of my first batch of ATPLs. I never stayed for the second batch (obviously).

I subsequently landed up in a decent-paying job (thanks to my degree) and have stayed with the business ever since, climbing the ranks and have now been thinking about re-exploring my flying career.

Knowing what I went through with the financial anxiety, I have been thinking and researching about the possibility of going Modular and paying-as-I go (per licence stage). Like this, I would hopefully end the training and be both debt-free and still in employment (even if it lands up being slightly longer to get the fATPL).

I will be 34 this year, currently considering a short-haul career (hopefully A319/20/21).

So my questions are (and please answer any that you can, needn’t be all):

1. Do bigger European airlines still consider pilots who went the modular route?
2. Will airlines still consider me, even if I did 'fail' half of my ATPLs at first attempt all those years ago?
3. Are the theoretical elements possible through distance learning (e.g. ground school)?
4. Is modular the way to go in my situation? Any other route that can be done ‘part-time'?
5. What schools are recommended within easy reach of London (especially for the PPL)? I’m willing to travel up to 2 hours by train - no problem - so long as the school is reputable and my qualifications respected as I continue doing the licences/courses.
6. Any other input is much appreciated :)

Thanks a lot guys

1. Yes. FR for example will consider just about anyone for a license and don't really bother with how you got it. They focus more on the sim assessment I'm told. You will no doubt have to pay for the type rating which is around 30k on top of training but you get jet time, a job and a good salary of about 50k after a few years on the line which is good. EZY sometimes take people on from modular or integrated atpl backgrounds but they have the MPL cadet programme so they are an unlikely bet unless you train with a school such as FTE,OAA or CTC who can recommend you and get you on to a midway programme for an MPL license.

2.Depends. You will never know if you don't try. I would actually recommend emailing an aviation HR rep if you can find someone online and ask the question. There is a business called airline prep which actually run programmes tailored for airline assessments where usually a rep of the airline you are interviewing for will do a mock interview with you. You can always contact them and see if someone will speak to you from an airline you maybe wish to apply for and give you a realistic answer. As I say though, Some airlines don't bother about where you trained and grades etc. Overall, If you have the licence then you can fly and reality is airlines need pilots or they don't make money... and there is a shortage! Once you have the flying time you can apply for wherever you want.. BA, Are Lingus, easy etc

3. Yes. I do modular learning with CAPT Ground school who I would recommend.The notes they provide are very good and the author and head of training is highly recommended and experienced. I also have the Bristol Ground School material and know them to be similar to CAPT in terms of experience they have in terms of teachers and quality of material. BGS may be easier for you in terms of travel for the refresher weeks depending on your location. I stay in Scotland where CAPT run revision weeks and I have a CAA exam centre 5 mins from my house so thats a good portion of the reason why I choose my ground school provider. Any approved modular ground school will provide you with all the material and you learn at home. The courses are set in modules and you will receive refresher weeks before the exam weeks. It is without doubt achievable if you are willing to work hard at it.

4. If you wish to work then yes. You will know yourself from experience the burden of being faced with 80k upwards in debt with no job guarantee when people paying half of that can be just as qualified and have as good a chance of a job whilst being financially stable if they pay as they fly. Modular is financially easier if you can work and fly at the same time. Only thing is you would be wise to ensure your training timeline doesn't have huge gaps between licences and learning because you may find you loose knowledge which can show in assessments.

5. Lots of schools in England. Bournemouth, FTA Global are reputable, Stapleford, Aeros, Airways flight training or Oxford and CTC if you are completley sold on the whole propaganda they throw at aspiring pilots louring them into ridiculously over priced training ... Plenty in reasonably close proximity to London. FTA in particular operate DA40 aircraft with modern glass cockpits so I'd check them out, I wish I could have done my PPL on something like that!

6. For me, my biggest fear is to be stuck doing something that I maybe reasonably like but know that there is something else I really wish I could be doing instead. I am 21 with a PPL but I work for an airline and see the people who I aspire to be like coming in for their flights and wish I could just be doing their job already. It's inspiring though and keeps me going towards my career ambition.

Hope it works out for you!

1. Do bigger European airlines still consider pilots who went the modular route?
Definitely. Ryanair, Jet2 and Flybe to name a few.

2. Will airlines still consider me, even if I did 'fail' half of my ATPLs at first attempt all those years ago?
Good question, but I thought ATPL results 'expire' after a few years if you haven't finished the course? But to answer the question, it depends on the airline as some may be picky. I believe Ryanair allow 2 fails, but I am basing that on something I heard a few months ago. Note that ATPL fails are merely a form of reducing the CV pile size. A bad set of ATPL results does not mean that the candidate is a bad pilot as I've heard there's a lot of crap needed to be learnt as well as ambiguous exam questions.

I would never let that be a deciding factor as to whether or not to start training. If you are determined and have the passion then worry not, you will eventually be flying for a living. It may not be within a week, month or year after graduating but if you stay within aviation and don't give up then you will eventually find yourself in the RHS.

3. Are the theoretical elements possible through distance learning (e.g. ground school)?
Yes, e.g. BGS. Search around PPRune to find lots of people having done their ATPL while married with kids and working a full time job. A lot of them are also now flying.

4. Is modular the way to go in my situation? Any other route that can be done ‘part-time'?
Pretty sure most integrated schools are full time. So if you want to do it all part-time then modular would definitely be the way. With the current pilot forecast for the next 2 decades it seems like pilots will be in much greater demand. Some people have mentioned that there has been a decrease in demand over the past 12 months but it could be explained by the sudden supply of pilots from Monarch/Air Berlin.

5. What schools are recommended within easy reach of London (especially for the PPL)? I’m willing to travel up to 2 hours by train - no problem - so long as the school is reputable and my qualifications respected as I continue doing the licences/courses.

6. Any other input is much appreciated :)
I got my PPL a few years ago and starting my ATPL in summer after graduating from University. Would be happy to keep in touch with you or anyone else who reads this so feel free to shoot me a PM. We all have the same goal here. :)

I've done very limited PPL training but my research told me this:

1, Flybe replied to an email from me when I asked if my age was a barrier to employment with them. They replied that they take pilots from all different backgrounds and that modular shouldn't be an issue and nor should my age (38).

2, Can't answer that.

3, Check out Bristol Ground School.

4, Check out Aeros's Fast Track scheme. This is run in conjunction with BGS and has placed pilots with airlines. You can do this as quick or slow as you wish.

5, I would go with Aeros if I had the funds as the Fast Track scheme is PAYG and Gloucester is 5 minutes from my house! BGS also offer a similar scheme. Links below:

Aeros Fastrack - Aeros Flight Training
https://www.wingsalliance.eu/

Noticed WA was just mentioned, https://www.wingsalliance.eu/trainin...ing-explained/ is definitely a good read.

Thank you @Jaair @GAPilot261087 @Council_Van and @BirdmanBerry - I must say, I feel really optimistic after reading all your replies. :)

Just a quick one guys and girls i am currently 32 and my dilemma is to go integrated or modular, I know of integrated cadets in there mid 30s who have gained employment at EZY. My preference would be modular as it’s the cheaper of the two, but begs the question how many mid 30 cadets the like RYR take when competition is so fierce from young guys Queuing up for a type rating, the gamble to me seems pretty straight forward 50-60k for modular with frozen atpl with maybe little hope of employment or 100k+ gamble whitetail at a big provider eg L3 Fte cae etc just looking foy any help guidance anyone been in my position gained employment mid 30s after traing thanks in advance.

Tough call, ultimately. For me, going modular was a matter of keeping my backup career active and doing it for less $$$.

I would only spend the big bucks on a set cadet scheme - not for an integrated course with no airlines affiliated. My general impression is that at our age, operators will understand why you don´t just cop out and do nothing but flight training. We do have obligations.

My personal conclusion was: the difference in cost is not translating into a proportionate difference in opportunities.

Very Modular Training
 

Hello everyone,

I need your opinion about my modular training plans. A brief information about myself, i'm working full time in Istanbul as an aeronautical engineer, therefore money and time are kind of limited for me. Last year i've took the PPL(A) from an EASA member state with distance learning. Here is my future plans, i will be appreciated if you share your opinion about applicability/cost/etc.. with me;

- First step, I am planning to start ATPL Theories with Cats Av. distance learning and take the exams in UK Authority,
- Second step, fly to US Florida for hour building and complete 100 hours PIC in 1 month. (By the end of theories i'll quit my job)
- Then come back and complete CPL/ME/IR in a different EASA member state from I took my PPL(A).

How feasible is that plan?

Thanks in advance.

Quite feasible.

Employability
 

Hello everyone,

I have started my PPL in France at a local club (only 6 hours in) and wondering what would be best :
- Continue my modular in France, and if all goes well, finishing in 2 to 4 years, so I would be 32 - 33 when applying for a job (not necessarily Arline pilot but any pilot job would satisfy me) so maybe a bit old.
- Do a 0-fATPL program (I'm thinking Bartolini or other school in Europe) hopefully finishing sooner and being able to apply sooner for jobs. Also, I know Bartolini is teamed with Wing Alliance so they have some connections with companies.

The modular in France would allow me to keep my job for some time but probably add some time to my qualifications, Bartolini or another full time training would allow me to apply way sooner for jobs.

I also wonder if a recruiter would prefer someone who traveled (and so, have been forced to use English only for his whole training) or wouldn't care about a applicant having done all his training close to home.
I ask because I intend after being qualified to apply to any company, at least in Euroope, maybe in the world (but then there is the problem with converting licenses to FAA or any other authority).

Also, in Europe aside from airline pilot and flight instructor, what jobs can you do as a pilot (while being paid at least the minimum), I wonder if GA is developed like I think it is in USA, seems to me that in Europe you have either big companies or nothing. Could be wrong tho.

Thanks in advance for your insights.
jr

32-33 a bit old? Does that mean I can start drawing my pension?

Haha, nah but I mean in reality I will probably be a newbie at 30-33 while others applicants without experience as pilots would probably be younger, 20-25yo.

I know somebody in their mid 40s - currently on an integrated course and confident of gaining airline employment once complete.

0-fATPL or totally modular
 

Thanks for you replies.
I'm trying to sort my ideas.
I'm actually in the process of selling a house, allowing me to do a 0-fATPL program once sold (but the process of selling the house could take some time). What do you think is best, waiting to sell the house, and then going in one big step from zero to commercial pilot, or going for a PPL this summer (in Hungary there is an offer for a 3 to 5 week PPL program) then do time building in France and once I have enough hours, apply for a CPL program ?

Do you think the ATPL theory can be done while keeping a full time job or is it better to quit work and go full time doing time building and ATPL alongside in order to apply quickly to a CPL program ?

Does anyone know of residential, integrated ATPL theory programs except Oxford?

I may get slated for this, however, as a current modular student doing the ATPL theory, if you are happy to spend almost double the amount on an integrated school, and can live for a year whilst studying, I would recommend an integrated course. The ATPL is very difficult in terms of motivation and volume on a modular basis, unless of course you would be studying full time anyway, I suspect the integrated ground school would be of much help. And it would be the quickest route to completion generally.

Ok thanks.
Is it possible to do only the ATPL theory in a ground school (so full time with class lessons) and do the rest modular ?

When I saw the proposition from Bartolini, the ATPL theory was ventilated as follow : 80H class, 650 e-learning (they are using Bristol GS ATPL) it seems they were confident you could complete the program in 9 month. So if possible my plan (other than a 0-fATPL program) was to finish my PPL this summer, then take ATPL theory and start hour building. If ATPL is too heavy whilst working full time, I would quit my job and concentrate for some months on ATPL and hour building, then hopefully passing the CPL and required exams, then looking for a job, then maybe type rating if job hunting fail.

Is it a good idea to do IR rating just after the PPL (with night rating) to be able to train to any type of flying during hour building phase before CPL IR ME ?

I believe there are ground schools for theory, but I haven't looked into it. So I could be wrong.

If you study full time, 8h per day every day, there's no reason why it couldn't be done in 9 months. They are significant and hard work though. Under estimate their difficulty at your peril.

As for the IR that depends how you intend on doing your flying. Most schools.offer combined IR,CPL and ME courses. In order to satisfy the required hours for each area. That's a personal choice. There are exams for the IR which would need passing before you started the course. If you want the ATPL then personally I would combine it all into one. Again, That's personal choice though.

Yes. There are many schools which offer 6 month full time ATPL courses.

You can't do the IR immediately after the ppl, you need 50 hours cross country PIC time before you can start. However it is a very good it's to take the IR before the CPL of you want to get everything done in 200 hours.

By far the cheapest (and by cheaper I mean at least £10k cheaper) is to start with an FAA PPL then add an IR and ME rating. You have to hour build anyway, so it's just the instruction you're paying for. Here's the punchline: if you get 50 hours PIC under ifr (free in your hour building) then you can convert to an EASA MEIR with no minimum aircraft hours (normally it's 21 plus 40 SIM)
Then all you need to do is a 15 hour single engine CPL course.