Ormond Beach.
 

Ormond Beach.
Can anyone clarify what is going on in Ormond Beach? I understand there has been a serious acccident and the Cessna fleet has been grounded by the FAA. Is this correct, and if so, why?
Grounding a Cessna fleet seems very drastic action!

Well a quick search on google tells me there was a cessna suffered an EFATO there 2 days ago. Aircraft landed on the golf course, both occupants safe and well, no major dramas. Is that what your referring to?

This is really worrying me. I am due to start ppl training next week on the c150 in OBA.

Better check that out as there was a crash 8/21/2007 not 2008 as far as I have checked. I can't see any flying being done in the last 5 days due to TS Fay

So what is your source? I made a search at google without luck...

Here is a link to a plane down in the golf club next to KOMN (which incidentally does a fantastic BLT) yesterday as has been reported up there by MIKECR. Nothing major, doesn't say if it is OBA or not, one taken to hospital as a precaution.
I don't think the FAA would ground the whole cessna fleet based on one EFATO though... and don't forget they have a load of Cadets they just got that you could go on even if that is the case.

Surely it can't be possible. Grounding their Cessna fleet, having already grounded the Liberty fleet.

I think Chinese wispers have turned an accident following a few days of non flying due hurricane, in to this.

I honestly don't think anyone would ground them on safety grounds apart from a major storm.

Is there any update on this does anyone know?

As far as i'm aware none of the fleet have been grounded. A friend of mine is currently at OBA

I flew the 152 earlier this year, along with most of the 150's there. All i can say is that they are a bit tatty but all done the job.

Well it looks like OBA is having a few problems with their aircraft engines. As they recently had one land on the US1 four lane

A bit tatty is an under statement they are tired old dogs that need to be put down. I have nothing against OBA but they could do with getting a new fleet. OBA is very lucky that they had instructors on the last two planes that went down. It is only a matter of time befor it happens to a student that mite not be able to deal with the problem. Givein the amount of students that go tru the place you would think it would be in the owners best intrests to give his students the best equipment he can.

Sorry To Disappoint The Knockers
 

1. OBA did have a brand new fleet of Libertys which were grounded by OBA early this year because of persistent manufacturing/quality 'problems' (see earlier threads).
2. FAA have been conducting a massive investigation into all (i.e. not just those at OBA) alleged Liberty problems and rumour is they will be reporting shortly. Presume that there are some major claims from Liberty owners so you can bet that none of them inc. OBA will comment until FAA report.
3. Recent 'crash' seems minor and, with the huge number of hours and students at OBA, the incident rate is probably less and OBA safer than 'average' FTO.

Just a thought, but if you want to know whats going on why dont you just ring OBA. I am sure Adrian or one of the Instructors will be happy to tell you whats happening.

Ex OBA student

I got my PPL from Ormond in May and the instructor involved in the crash was excellent - he taught me. The student would def be in safe hands.......

Not Interested
 

Good point (and applies equally to numerous other Wannabe 'queries' such as how much do ABC Flying School charge for....) but wasted on many who are:
Crash Spotters
OBA Knockers
Simple Nutters
The above are not usually interested in facts.

im hoping to do my ppl there in about three months, do you guys recommend the place? hopefully they'll have a working fleet by then!

Well, I would assume students would bleed money on all schools if they dont take things seriously. Which school did he recommend then?

Just back from OBA, got my ppl and quite happy overall. I started on the C150, lasted approx 9 hours and then changed over to the PA28, the main reason was the fact that they are old, instruments do not work, and engines have some serious internal problems that in my opinion contributed to the I-95 LANDING, emergency landing in Pladka Airport, and the golf course crash. All of the above incidents/accident suffered internal failures of some sort. Fuel contamination is suspected for the last accident but the fact that the aircraft flew for an hour before is strange and also that both student and instructor took a number of fuel samples during the PF. I enjoyed my training at OBA, but they seriously need to work on their management team, we are the customers who have paid hard earned money to be there and we are entitled to a quality service- speaking for myself and alot others-we did not get that. I personally will not return to OBA for further training, but that is my situation. On a brighter note the PA28 are a fantastic aircraft and a beautiful aircraft o fly. C150 are currently still flying as i left this week-but unless all engines are over-hauled or changed- I can seriously see a domino effect of what has previously happened(remember-these problems are non-detectable during 100hr inspection according to SF).
Safe Flying

DCarroll - when did you go there? I was there in Feb/Mar. Agree with you 100% The place is like a sausage factory. However, it is cheap. Not sure if it failed to meet my expectations as they were not high to start with.

As for going back there for CPL etc. I think I'll look elsewhere cos the focus is on PPL's and the attention to detail required for CPL students just ain't enough from what I've heard.

What with the forthcoming changes to visas and the changes and expectations re licencing in Europe, I think OBA will have a difficult future other than for hour building.

Watch This Space
 

Who knows, or cares, what you've heard?
Like you, the OBA/USA haters have been predicting the demise of CAA/JAA training there for 20 years but, in fact, it's only got bigger with others joining the bandwagon and Cabair & co attempting to copy but shafting with surcharges.

Plenty of others have come and gone in the UK and USA but OBA has proved its staying power and popularity. You can bet that OBA is ahead of the latest game because, whatever you think about OBA, the owner is no-one's fool.

OBA has never claimed to be the place for poseurs and precious brats so, if you want your ego massaged, go elsewhere. If you want your licence or rating at lowest cost, OBA is the place so I have always been mystified by complaints about 'sausage factory' (=their predictably efficient methods) and 'penalties' (=sanctions on idiots for their lack of commitment, non-compliance etc.). Otherwise, it would be you (the serious clients) who would have to pay a lot more for what you want.

On their site they state a JAA PPL can be done in 21 days! Is this possible? Even if it was 1,5 month. Is it possible to do a JAA PPL in 1,5 month ??? :confused: It sounds crazy. In sweden they say 6-8 month (although not full time ofcours).

Eikido

I did my JAA PPL in 5 weeks in Florida (although not at OBA), not flying every day, and doing all 7 theory exams at the same time. So its definitely possible! :ok:

Amazing!!! I thought it was a joke when i heard it the first time.
Because i don't want to rush it. I want to fly MAX 2 hours a day. A friend told me it's quiet intense, each flight/hour.:uhoh:

So did you feel comfortable doing it in 5 weeks?
Because i don't feel like doing it in 21 days :}.

Eikido

I've heard that with favourable conditions and commitment, under 2 weeks has been achieved by some.
In UK, they say it takes months because of weather, lack of aircraft etc. but, on pay-as-you-go, the longer you take the more money they make !
If you find a 3 week course worrying, just ask OBA to quote for 5 or 6 weeks. As far I know, OBA will only charge you for extra accommodation time which was cheap and quite acceptable (modern single storey houses just outside the airport site). You could pay extra to guarantee your own en-suite room.

The OBA aircraft may be old, well used or whatever you choose to call them but the fact is that although the airframes (the aircraft bodies) may be old, the engines are certainly not the originals, there is a limit on the number of hours (not miles) that an aircraft engine can be used before it is subject to a major overhaul which essentially means rebuilding the engine by a licensed engineering company to "as new" condition ("zero timed"). In the UK that is normally after around 2000 hours of use. The fact that an aircraft is say 30 years old does not mean that it has the same wheezy old engine in it as it rolled off the production line. Most of the accidents and incidents at OBA appear to be due to "pilot error". Not surprising really since most if not all of the pilots flying their aircraft are students or inexperienced pilots!

Personally, I have no confidence issues in flying an old aircraft since the maintenance of aircraft are subject to strict Civil or Federal Aviation rules regarding maintenance and engine rebuilding at set periods. Given the number of hours flown at OBA by inexperienced pilots, it is not surprising that there is the odd accident.

Yes, a PPL in 21 days is more than possible, it is likely in Florida! Allow much more time in the UK, almost certainly months! The Florida JAA schools certainly know their stuff when it comes to getting you through a PPL at minimum cost! A PPL is a PPL the only difference is on cost!

How is Adrian of OBA fame these days? is he old and grey or old and bald? Certainly, he is no fool when it comes to PPL training, bad attitude or not!;)

I did PPL in a tad under 2 weeks a few years back at OBA (and lost some flying days due wx); it was heavy going but as I wouldn't describe myself as a latter day Yeager I don't see why any similar half sensible ham fisted wannabee can't do it in 3 weeks provided they put the effort in and don't get totally screwed by weather.

I felt perfectly comfortable with this - even found time for a long weekend away across the other side of the state! Just make sure you're focused, and its not a difficult task at all.

I did my PPL at OBA in 3 weeks... it was no problem as long as you study sufficiently prior to getting out there. There was a couple of people that didn't complete in the 3 weeks but most did.
I didn't find it intense at all and enjoyed my time there.

I took the afternoon off work, went to OBA, passed all my theory exams and completed the PPL the following day (I had to wait until the evening to do my night flying). Show me a pilot who has come fresh from OBA after 4 or 5 weeks training and can successfully navigate in the UK and I'll show you a picture of Lord Lucan taking his pet dodo for a walk. You WILL need additional training when you return. Civil Aviation, stop banging your OBA drum. OBA will get you the ticket, if you're committed. Now Stephen Fisher is in charge and most, if not all, of the instructors have left. That, coupled by 3 recent engine failures is writing on the wall, as far as I'm concerned. The sad fact is, there is not 1 JAA school in Florida at the moment that can be recommended.

That is what i thought.
A friend told me you won't feel as safe when taking the PPL that fast as someone who did it in months. Plus the different climate in SE/UK.
I guess I will need further instruction when i get back if i do it in the US.

I still don't know when to start training. I want to start tomorrow but I hope i can do it in January.:}
I'm dependent of 1-2 friends. We're going to do it together.


Regards
Eikido

TicketyBlue, I'd like to see that photo of Lord Lucan taking his pet dodo for a walk, I know a fair few people who got their PPL at OBA and just had a 1 hour checkflight at their respective schools upon their return and were signed off.

1 hour checkflight? What for?

The JAA PPL is valid in all JAA countries?

Eikido

I don't know of any clubs where you can just roll up and rent an aircraft without having a checkflight with an instructor, do you?

Nope (McGoo)

Flown a few at different locales and always had to do a check ride. Even went back to OBA for hours and had to do a check 2 months after at the place I passed at!!

Good wee school, with some decent FI's. 0-PPL in 16 days. Even bolted on 10 hrs at the end within my 3 weeks. :D

Am looking towards a flying career with no experience at all and I want to go to OBA next year to do my PPL BUT is it essential you need some kind of experience or study under your belt to complete it in 3 weeks? I am reading a flight manual if that helps so am not completely useless?

Thanks,
Francie

Aha, a checkride for your club. I get it. Reasonable.

But if you guys do JAA PPL in 2-3 weeks, how many hours did you fly a day?

Eikido

MEPr in 1-2 weeks, CPL in 2-3 weeks, IR in 3-5 weeks, type rating in 3-5 weeks... you have a valid reason to suggest the PPL should be dragged out over months?

18 days start to finish. Hard work but fun. Training as a whole good. Many years ago and now. 3 of us on same course are now TREs in the same airline. Small world...

eikido,

Yes, it totally do-able but ask yourself one question 'am I the sort of person who can hack an intensive course?' If the answer is yes, then go for it.

As for those who talk about about Lord Lucan and question a two-week PPL - you're entitled to your opinions just the like the rest of are. Yep, did mine in 14 days (13 years ago) and a list of willing volunteers (should that be guinea pigs :E) willing to join me - including all of my family who have flown with me numerous times.

I've never encountered any issues with checkouts whether it be here in the UK or Florida and California.