There's maybe hope for me yet then at 43 now the kids are at/nearly at secondary school.
Tho my PPL (JAR) probably well out of date now and my local school/club is now closed post-covid.
Are 'middle-aged' newbies even favoured by the airlines in this brave new world...

I was recently offered a place on easyjet MPL and I'm in my mid/late thirties. Only point through the selection process that my age was even raised was at the very end, and it was raised by me not them, asking the EZY training captain doing my interview about his thoughts on later career changers. He was entirely positive, with all the usual lines about maturity, life experience etc etc. And I know of at least two others that started MPL in late forties/early fifties.

I know MPL is a bit of a different route to modular, but EZY certainly don't seem to care if you're a bit older.

So how's it going dobbiej?

From my first post in 2004 until now in Sept 2022
 

Can't believe so much time has passed since my first post on this Forum in Nov, 2004 wondering if I were too old to begin a career in aviation at 37. Why am I here now? Last night I passed 4000 hrs flight time. Doesn't seem like many since I began my training in 2005, but aviation has taken me on a journey with experiences I never would have lived had I not had the courage to go for it. It's not all been a bed of roses...I was "grounded" between 2012-2016 and those were very difficult years personally...but I always maintained my focus, discipline and being true to myself.

You CAN achieve anything in life.

Safe landings!

P.S. And only this week I got my third ICAO language certification. You're never too old to learn!

Very inspiring post. Thanks for coming back after all these years.
I am in my late 30s and just passed my ME-IFR. Thinking hard about the CPL now because i have almost all the prerequisites. What matters is the journey.

Well, here we are in November. I'm completely addicted to flying. I have my PPL and a Class 1. Kicking off ATPL studies in the new year.

People leave too many things for the new year and invariably achieve practically none. Commit and start now! Go on :p

I am probably an older version of you so here is my experience.

I am in my late 30s Software dev (actually a team manager on top of being a dev).

If you are unclear about the path in front of you, I suggest you do both in parallel. Keep and progress with your job, get pay increases. At the same time you can get new ratings/qualifications:
- Night VFR next
- Then do you cross country prerequisite. As part of it, do your 300NM XC for the CPL. Don't forget the stamps from FBOs on your logbook.
- When you are done with your Night VFR + XC, start the multi engine + ME-IFR. You will have 30 instrument hours left to do.

When you are done with ME-IFR you will realize you have many prerequisites done for the CPL. I am at this point.

In Canada (do not know for your country), when you start a CPL with the intent of finding a job, you can write off a lot of flying hours (back to PPL!) from your income.
That is where keeping your software job makes sense. As you go up in tax brackets, you can get more cash back from the government.

Also, another more important reason to keep your job is that you accumulate experience in that field. If for any reason, you need to go work back there in the future, you increase your chances to find a job.

In 2019, i was looking at the flight instructors leaving for companies with envy. I almost wanted to stop my software career and go all in. Less than a year later i was relieved to still have a job.
Depending on your financial situation, it will help you stay out of painful debt and remove some stress.

message to future
 

Hi everyone. Following this thread for 10 years. read many inspirational posts through years. Thanks those hwo helped to keep my dreams alive. I am 33 y/o, senior resident in neurosurgery (10 month left). I always wanted to be a commercial pilot but you know “life”. I am now married, 1 kid. We are living in Turkey and trying to move UK in 1-2 years. I am writing this post to come back in 5 years (i guess) as a com pilot. I was hoping to apply turkish airlines cadet program but they have 30y/o age limit so i couldnt. See you soon 🤚🏻

Oldest Tagged/Sponsored Cadet
 

Given the airlines' recent focus on diversity, how old was the oldest tagged and/or sponsored cadet you've seen at the point they entered training?

Have you seen a regional or short-haul operator be persuaded that a 50 year old cadet will be much less likely to switch to a seniority-heavy long-haul airline after a few years of flying the line?

Why on earth would your want to give up a job as a doctor to be a plane driver ..?

Umm, y-e-ah... Good luck...

I would say it all depends what your ambitious are. Instructing at local club or Airlines.
When I was 40 I had already has my PPL for long time, so I did not start from Zero, but I had not flown for almost 20 years or more.

I did modular, and was 42 when I finished the courses. 12 months later I got my first Airline job, and it was a lot of luck getting that first job.
Hard work. It was based in Europe, so would not work for most UK pilots today, with a young family, and commuting by air 3 hours to get to "home base" I used to have 2 full days at home, and 8 days of work and commuting either to work or home. But if you choose to go this way, you can't be picky and you should be aware of the pitfalls if you decide to invest +£100K into this career at a late time in your life.

It's hard on your private / personal life and health, when you start commuting, as you miss almost everything of importance and have very little say over your own life the first 4 - 5 years, it cost me a marriage (divorce) and the ensuing battles that comes with this (phycological stress which almost cost me my job/ career) This can manifest itself through your Sim checks, medicals and mental health with all the stress going on around in your life. Spending 2 days at home within a 10 day period, definitely did not improve family life, although for me personally there were other reasons for the divorce then the commuting / flying job, but it certainly was a factor.

Also be aware of even if you have a Class 1 medical, there are many things completely beyond our control when we get older, that suddenly happens with little or no notice. Issues with eye sight due to age, abnormal ECG readings which will cost a small fortune to have diagnosed, unhealthy lifestyle (food, drink etc) and work life (fatigue).
There are so many "traps" during this career if you manage to get into it, that can make you loose your job and your +£100K investment in training.

I was "lucky" and commuted only for 2 years, before I managed to get a job back in the UK. Instead of commuting 3 hours by air, I was now commuting only 4 (2+2) hours by car or train every day, but at least most days I was home with my family.
The initial contract for the first 4 years also back in the UK was not the greatest, depending on your lifestyle it might be big changes in your life and spending habits, besides if you are commuting the extra costs of these too adds up, both financially and with fatigue.

However during the whole time since I started, I made myself "small goals", and slowly over time I have ended up closer to home, better TC's and finally I got my move to LHS, 10 years after my first job in the industry, and delayed by 2.5 years due to Covid, which was another massive scare for the industry. The loss of Covid due to my age vs example pensions, has cost me a lot, but at least I managed to keep my job and get my upgrade as soon as life came back to normal.

But during the journey there have been many obstacles on the way, things that are beyond our control, things that can risk the economical security and safety of your family. So yes there is a bitter sweet happy ending, and overall I have no regrets, but this is the reality and it took me 10 years to get where I wanted, and the fear is that you can loose anytime for a dodgy ECG reading.

As an "older", we carry a lot more luggage in our lives, then someone in their early 20's or even early 30's.

Speak for yourself!
But a very good point - you need complete focus to make it in this game. Best to get the first divorce over sooner rather than later.

Commercial pilot training at my age?
 

Hello

Honest advice sought please. I am 49 with a PPL, IR(R) nearly completed and about 250 hours. Becoming a pilot was always the plan since early childhood and I was sponsored through university on a RAF Cadetship but medically discharged just before IOT due to an issue that is long since resolved. I subsequently went into business for myself, did OK and have enough financial security that I can afford commercial pilot training and to take a job that I want to do, rather than worry too much about what it pays or what promotion prospects it offers. Mainly, I just want to enjoy what I do, work with some nice people and do a good job, ideally in an adequately resourced and apolitical environment.

After selling my company I retrained and now work for the NHS. On a good day I love it but overall I think I'd rather be flying. So, I am thinking about leaving my medical career behind, getting my CPL/IR and maybe flying for a (modest) living. I have a few specific questions and if anyone is able to answer all or any of them I would be very grateful:

1. Job opportunities - what (if any) job prospects might there be for a 50 year old pilot with a low hours CPL/IR? Where is the best place to look for such opportunities?
2. Training - would my employment prospects be strengthened by completing my training with one of the bigger flight training organisations?
3. Other ideas - are there any other interesting aviation career opportunities I could consider instead ? For example, I saw some advertisements recently for UAV pilots that appeared to be open to PPL holders, which sound interesting. As well as some flying experience I also had a successful 20 year career in business and I am also a qualified healthcare professional so perhaps there is a way to utilise this combined experience?

I appreciate the opportunities will be much more limited because of my age although I'm fit, healthy and hopefully have a solid 10-15 years left before I'm done, so time for one more career!

Any advice gratefully received, thank you.

Best wishes
73DT

Hi, like the question, this obviously isn’t a pipe dream!

1. Good, provided you are willing to potentially pay 30K for a type rating at somewhere like Ryanair. Jobs are available without but very competitive. £30K in the bank and a licence in hand today and you can be a Ryanair captain in five years on the right side of £100K

2. No No No No No!! I cannot stress this enough. The big schools are sausage factories which exist to maximise the revenue extraction from every student. You get the same bit of paper at the end but will pay £100K rather than £60K for the privilege. Expect to be treated like a 15 year old, seriously. I was a mere uni grad and it was a shock to me, you’ll be taken aback by how you’re treated. Have a look at how some of them handled their students over covid, disgusting. Go Modular, use the saved money for a type rating.

3. Meh, honestly it’s probably just little jobs to use PPL holders. They know they’ll work for nothing to get ‘drone pilot’ on their CV. You’re getting a licence, you want to be an airline captain, presumably, I wouldn’t mess about with that sort of thing (you wanted honesty)!

Age wise won’t be an issue in Europe, you’ll be a breath of fresh air to your instructors if anything.

Get your class 1 ASAP. If you get that in hand then look at options, here can help a lot.

Good luck with it! You’ll get a solid 12/13 years from it if you keep going until 65, and there is absolutely a real chance of being a captain for a good number of those years.

Thanks VariablePitchP, I really appreciate the time you have taken to reply and you have given me the nudge I needed to move forward with this.

I'd like to think it's a realistic possibility, I am used to long training/development pathways and navigating regulatory issues but I know there is a long queue of younger, more talented women and men in front of me with longer career spans, hence I wanted a realistic perspective from someone who knows what they are talking about.

I'll book a Class 1 slot just now and ensure I can cross this hurdle first.

Thanks again.

sorry for late reply but i dont have a simple answer to it but if i try i would say i like my recent job and i like doing surgery and ''saving lives'' is good but i have never loved it and i feel that passion for ''driving planes''. if someone would hand me a 200-300k usd next morning i will quit as soon as i get my degree.

thanks

"VariablePitchP" - warning, the advice given is extremely bad, actually some of the first I have seen, whoever they are, they clearly do not know the aviation world in Europe very well.

First my personal opinion I think you will struggle to get in with the airlines as your first job, definitely if you follow "VariablePitchP" advice. At this stage in life you have very few options. Brexit has not helped you, as you can't offer yourself to all of the EU, where there would have been some obscure opportunities to get a first job to get some experience.

I had a similar journey as you would like to embark on, but I was 10 years younger when I started, and due to the pandemic it took me around 10 years to get me to where I wanted and needed to be (should have been 8 if not for Covi, and I still have left another 11-12 years. I lost 2.5 years because of the pandemic, but I was lucky still having a job.

Are the jobs available for people your age, maybe, but going modular I would say at this stage you can forget getting an airline job. I did go modular myself, I waited 12 months after finishing before I got my first job with an EU operator, so I had to commute for this first job,

ATPL's would take you at least 6 months in the best case, another 6 - 12 months for CPL / IR / ME and MCC / JOC etc, you would be a lower hour pilot with no jet experience, and you will have spent at least 18 months, and imagine you are lucky and have a miracle, maybe in 30 months you get your first job as an FO (which I doubt will happen) You have lost at least 3 years living in uncertainty and spent loads of money and might still have no job to show for, and if you do have a job, expect to be paid not very well for at least 4 - 5 years.

I am no fan of the big training organizations, I think they overcharge and are taking advantage of people wanting to be pilots, however your best chance at your age, is that you manage to get enrolled in a course where you are guaranteed a job at the end of training. Sure modular will save you a lot of money, but what good is that if you have no job at the end of it.

I had a friend who did the course same time as me similar your age, and he was realistic in what was possible to achieve, of course he might get offered some job eventually, but I doubt you will ever make Captain with an airline if you go modular route. Even if you follow a program, there is a massive backlog in FO's who are waiting for upgrade, so expect it to take 5 -7 years from you start working.

If you have the money, apply and pass a course that guarantees you a job with an airline. At your age, you don't have time be messing around with other flying to gain experience, if that is what you want to do.

Get your medical first though, you might think you are fit, but there are thinks that can be hidden like ECG etc. that might be issues you are not aware of, so get that initial Class 1 done.

If you are happy to work as an instructor, then modular is maybe the way to go, depends what your goals are.

I am a Brit, started my PPL on a modular route to trying to launch an aviation career at 36, in the year before the pandemic hit. I followed a completely modular path. In 12 days time I will start my type rating for a job with an airline at age 39.

So I'd completely disagree with your point of view in terms of jobs being available. I think at the moment it is actually incredibly hard to predict how airlines see the next year or so panning out, some will be conservative, some will want to have learned the lessons of the immediate post covid period and invest to be ready for rebound. Maybe some are figuring they will steal passengers from their more expensive competitors in this next year or so period.

For 73DT.... In terms of age, being 50 might limit you in some ways (as no airline is looking to hire a career FO)... however, a lot of the less glamorous name airlines are also aware that they are going to lose a fair number of their younger FOs and Capts. to the big boys, whereas an older hire is likely to be more loyal. They'll see a person who might stay with them for the rest of their working life, and that'll be a good enough for them to see a potential captain. Also don't downplay the fact that the older candidates have a massive amount of experience and transferable skills on the CV. One of the differences between a 20 year old and an older pilot is, sure, career longevity. But on the flip side, if you're looking at a pile of CVs that are identical, and then a guy who's had an interesting career, collected a bunch of qualifications etc. pops out, that's not a disadvantage!

At the end of the day, its really up to what you're willing to gamble. To be clear, be you 20 or 50, there is no guaranteed job at the end of the training process. The 20 year old has the advantage of more time to be able to wait, and probably less financial commitments to take care of. You as an older candidate have the advantage of a far more attractive CV in comparison to 90% of the kiddies, and the impression that you must REALLY want to do the job if you're attempting it at this age!

I'd say go for it, because it's worked out for me so far. I'm sure there are people who'll say avoid like the plague because they, or people they know, didn't have a great outcome... choice is yours! Good luck!

There are jobs, but they are now primary going to MPL students or other flight programs, I have seen "older" candidates come through on these programs the last 12 months and straight in the company as an FO. You started your Modular route when 36, I was 40, there is some time, but if you are 50 you don't have 4 -5 years to mess around in my opinion if your goal is to get into an airline job.
There is a stage where to modular route is not the best option for some, unless they are happy to waste 70 - 100K (with TR), and see where it leads them.
Also there are many ex-pats who have been stuck abroad longer then they expected, dying to come back to UK for various reasons, and these are experienced both Captains and FO's, so getting in from the "outside" modular route is not going to be easy. Btw Ryanair are fairly ageist if you are low hours and over 40.

Also important, are you willing to re-locate / commute big distances to take any job you get offered. My first job I was basically away 8 days and 2 days home, missed every important significant occasions in family life over those 2 years, Christmas Eve and Christmas day was stuck in a 2 star hotel with no heating, where all the staff had gone home at 7 Pm so no food etc.
If you have been successful in business and had a "good lifestyle", this might come as a shock to you. Not every 50 year old are willing to be treated this way at this stage in their life, so you need to ask yourself are you willing to spend 4 - 5 years spending thousands of pounds, to then be treated and paid crap?

And the progression from TP to Jets, is not something that happens a lot anymore, so all depends what you want.

However there is no way someone starting at 50 who wants to have a shot in a good airline with ok conditions for a few years, 10 - 13 years is going to be the max, will have much chance of that going Modular that late in life.
Making the choice when you are 36 / 39 vs 50 are 2 very different things, 36 I would not even categorize as "old" to start.
Personally when I decided to go for it, I felt that was the latest time to do it, I would never have done it if I was 50. My personal cut off limit would have been 45 to have completed any training.

I'm not saying you don't have some points to consider, but I also think you paint an overly bleak picture.

At the end of the day the big thing I do agree with you on is that its really about how fast you are willing and able to progress your training as an older pilot, what you're willing to risk in terms of the life you already have, and how open your eyes are to the realities of being a new low hours airline pilot and that your employer (should you get one) is going to expect you to make the same sacrifices and moves as the guys who've just left 6th form college.

I am trying to paint a realistic picture, applying for your first job at 52 -53 years old for an airline, is not going to be easy. Specially for one of the better companies. What you want to hear and reality are 2 very different things. If you are willing to invest over £100.000 at this age early 50's, you need to understand there is very little chance you will ever get this back.
Sure your CV might seem more "interesting", equally they know you arrive with a lot more "luggage", family, kids and a life outside aviation.
In addition it might be easier to train "young" pilots instead of "older" pilots, as we often don't have the same time to dedicate to the job as might be expected. Also consider example first job if you are lucky at 52, you will work the first 4-5 years for peanuts in most companies. If you only have few years left to retirement, would the company be eager to upgrade you to Captain?
Many companies are looking for pilots they can "mould" in a certain way of thinking and culture, I believe that if you start aiming for an airline career in your early 50's, you are unfortunately on the wrong end of the drag curve.

In the end is you choice what you decide to do, is your life and your money. However expect it to end up into nothing, that is the reality, unless you change your goals and expectations and can see other career paths that are not within the airlines.

Yes, people making the career change towards the end of their working life should definitely be doing it with their eyes open... this of course applies for pretty much any career if you are changing post 50 years old, I've heard the same advice you're giving related to older folks wanting to get into academia, archaeology and teaching. I guess the point is, do it if you're doing it for the experience and satisfaction of doing it and maybe fulfilling a life long dream. Maybe don't try it if you're expecting it to pay itself back financially or in terms of career security?

The problem with pilot profession is that the cut of age is 65, many other educations does not have this limitation.

73DT Would flight instruction or some kind of GA work be of interest?

Before aviation took the Covid nosedive, the general attitude seemed to be "if you really want it, have the means and are flexible, you will be able to fly for a living". Also people at 40yo and older were getting this type of response a lot.

It´s remarkable that this has flipped almost 180 degrees. Lots of discouraging replies to the older wannabes lately. This is not to say that they are not justified; could be entirely correct. I just noticed how the whole outlook has changed. It´s sad really. I liked those years when openness to biographical change had become such a normalcy (not only in terms of career).

Are you reading the posts?

There is a big difference to start at 40 or 50. "if you really want it" vs reality, you choose what you want to hear many times. And of course Covid changed a lot, many peoples career progress stopped / paused, and these are now all delayed 3 - 4 years in the career progress. It does seem much of the "backlog" is being cleared up, but those who had their training postponed in 2020, are now having it completed and getting into many of they jobs they were promised.

If you want it presented with rose tinted glasses, great, but don't cry after you spent £100K and you are in your mid 50's, and the best job you can get is FI job making £20K a year.

If you are starting in your 50's, be real of what you possibly can achieve, early 40's and you have the means, sure go for it.
There are people coming on here in their mid 30's thinking they are old to start, which they are not. The "to old" becomes relevant once you have rounded 45 - 50 and have still not got hours, medical or any ratings. At that stage it becomes a gamble, and if you do it at least try those dreaded schools who gets you straight into a job when your training has been completed.

I know in the UK recently there were a few companies recruiting FO's, they all wanted type rated FO's with hours on type, I know because I have friends who have thousands of hours but on the wrong type, and they could not apply. The backlog is huge, and there are many very qualified pilots who are waiting to fil those jobs.

Who would the airline hire? A 50 year old with 10.000 hours on business jets, or a 50 year old with Zero hours and no TR?
I would say the situation at the moment is not that companies are not hiring, but they like their "sausage factory" cadets, who gets trained and mentored like they want them. They will arrive at fairly high standard, be happy to accept substandard conditions for 4 - 5 years while they gain experience. I myself went modular, but recently I have not seen many modular students been hired, as they simply don't qualify to even apply.
Maybe RYR and Wizz do, but heavy competition to get in, and RYR are definitely an ageist company once you have passed 40.

If you can accept to have no expectations of getting any well paid job after your £100K investment, then go for it. (if you are over 50)

The demands of the syllabus, flying skills, focus etc. would for many over 50+ I think be somewhat demanding and I'd expect huge attrition rates during the training phase... so even getting through would be pretty admirable and that is before the T/R.

A guess but perhaps less than one in a hundred newly minted CPL's seeking an airline position are over 50, so stick out you most certainly will.

This is actually a very interesting thread as I'm in exactly that position. 48 currently and after having spent 30 years behind a desk building a very successful business I'm feeling its now time to go fly for a living before its too late.

Not exactly starting from scratch though, gained my PPL at 20, CPL at 30 and fortunate to now have about 1100hrs, with150hrs multi / IFR time gained flying my light twin for business trips and pleasure so plenty of real world experience flying up and down the country single pilot IFR in a 6 lever twin (think one armed paper hanger!). By the time I negotiate my company exit, redo my ATPLS (long expired) plus all the other bits MCC / UPRT etc I'm likely to be very close to 50. I've made my money now thought so would be more than happy seeing out my days flying a Turboprop around north of the border with a bit of instructing on the side.

Yes I'm old and crusty but wondering if my real world IFR twin flying and a bunch of hours might make my CV stand out a bit Vs a freshly minted CPL holder with 300hrs or whether, as has been mentioned previously, most airlines would much prefer someone they can mould from scratch and my experience is actually more of a hindrance?

Regards

UA

You are not starting from scratch, but slightly late, so that is better then many others of course, all depends for what jobs.
I don't know the current TP market, but I do understand that it is very hard to get a Jet job from TP, as many airlines unfortunately no longer appreciate this experience.
So have realistic expectations of where and how far you might go.
If I was you, I would take my ratings required and start applying, while still keeping my business running. You might get lucky, also most TP companies are not taking their pilots from the "sausage factories"

I am slightly more positive since you already have that amount of hours, but expect that you might get stuck in TP for most or all of your career. So there is limited returns on your investment, but if this does not matter then why not give it a go.

The problem with the "sausage factories", is that most there are already guaranteed a job with an operator as part of their selection process. Unless we see a sudden shortage of flight crew, I don't think there will be many from outside this.
BA, Virgin, Easy, Wizz and Jet2 have recruiting a lot, but all for people with hours and TR / experience. Ryanair are definitely slightly "ageist" based on personal experience.

But if you are happy with TP and instructing, I do think you would have a fair chance at this stage.

Age is only a problem if you tell them how old you are, so remove that from your CV.

If they want a 'freshly minted' fATPL then only give them the date of your Exam passes and MCC course.

If you think they want 200 hours and that your hours will count against you, write 1100 as '200+'

The ATPLs are still valid as long as you haven't gone more than 7 years without renewing your IR.
You don't actually need the ATPL exams until you move to the left seat, so you can start flying with just the CPL/IR and MCC etc..

Thanks for the feedback, Really not fussed about chasing down a jet job so all good on that front, would be very happy flogging around in a TP until its time to retire quite honestly and my company exit will pay out enough not to have to worry about the financial aspects. Its taken a lot of blood sweat and tears to get to that point though!

Hello everyone.
Putting this message out to get an honest view based on current climate etc. I’m 42, work in Cyber Security and decided to change direction and do something I was going to do in my college years. You guess it, become a commercial pilot. I will be most definitely going down the modular route as I need the income etc. I am visiting the aviation open day next month to et an idea of the schools and see which one gives me a good vibe. However there is one thing that keeps bothering me and holding me back slightly…..my age. Have I left it too late?

Definitely not. My friend was on an EasyJet course with 2 45 y/o's. Step 1 go for a trial flight if you haven't done so. Step 2, get a medical. Oh and seriously ask yourself about studying whilst working full time towards the ATPL exams as they take over your life.

Unusual Attitude, if you maintained a current IR your ATPL exams will remain valid? So you may find you do not need to resit. If you have never let an IR lapse by more than 7 years you will find they are still current.

Even if he/she/they didn't maintain them they're still valid. ATPL exams have no expiry date with respect to an MP type rating.

Apologies Rudestuff noticed you posted the same earlier on, I should remember to scroll up in future.

To be fair I rarely read anything either!