|
Honestly with all the self funded self sponsored BS I'm not sure why age would even be a factor, especially considering someone older with a family has more "reason" to be responsible.
|
UK, changing careers to become a pilot.
Hey guys,
I'm interested in hearing some thoughts on my situation. I have always wanted to become a pilot but due to financial reasons I never managed to, I managed to get a good degree and a good job in tech. I'm 29 now and live in the UK with some responsibilities (house+married), unfortunately, I didn't manage to save enough to cover my training costs and will be looking for a loan to cover the cost of obtaining the majority of hours. I'm interested in hearing about the best path to becoming a commercial pilot (Airliners) in the UK, if it's too late for someone in his late 20's and more information on the cost and financials to get a position in an airline. Thank you! |
I understand that Skyborne at Gloucester has a finance programme. Worth taking a look at their website.
29 is definitely NOT too old, not with the current hiring boom, but it can't last forever so best to get a move on. |
Hello everyone...
I might fit in well into this long-running thread, as I am 34 now, but want to become a pilot. I'm based in Germany/EU, so my questions are aimed at people who can judge what's going on in this part of the world... Up until this month I was the manager and owner of a mid-sized company, which had no connection to aviation at all. Also I don't own a PPL so far. Now I have sold my company and will be able to do whatever I want, at least financially. 1) I guess I am too old for signing up for a cadet program from one of the airlines (like LH groups MPL program), or do you think there are chances of me still being accepted at this age? 2) But even if I am too old for the cadet programs with the airlines, I should be able to make the ATPL privately, and pay for it myself, too. Is there anything which could prevent me from doing so? 3) Are there any flight schools you could suggest me looking at in Germany, or over all the EU? (At least as English and German are sufficient as languages.) 4) If I should be succesful accquiring the ATPL, how will my future look like? I think there are many airlines right now taking you without a typerating? But also many who offer you a job where you have to pay for the type-rating right? Do these airlines take you with a privately funded ATPL and not much experience (except for the one from making the ATPL)? Many questions, I know, but I hope you can answer some for me. I find that there are a lot of informations available for young people just out of school and how they can apply to the cadet-programs, but not much for older people like me, 15 years after school ended. I have already looked into the tests for physcis, maths and English and while they are challenging, they should be doable for me. I also finished a check with a flight doctor, who told me I would easily pass the class 1 medical. So for me I'm now interested in the practical stuff, where to start and what to avoid... Thanks in advance for your answers, ChangeNow |
Hey! I'm also 29 and currently saving up money for flight school. Been asking myself the same questions (not married though so I dont have that "responsibility"). How far have you come? I'm Swedish but looking into getting my license in Canada and work there.
Good luck!!!:) |
ATPL Study / Tips / Structure / Do's & Don't's
Hi All,
It's my first post on here so apologies if this topic has been covered before. I'll be extremely grateful for any feedback received! So, I'm starting my ATPL distance learning in a month's time and I'm wondering what tips both past or present students found helped them. Annoyingly, my recent research has found so many conflicting responses from others to a point that I'm very confused as to what the best method is. Now I know everyone is different in terms of what way they retain information, but one of the biggest decisions I have to make is whether or not I focus on the questions banks more so than the books. In my opinion, time is against me so I do not want to start on the wrong foot, nor waste valuable time. I'm at the moment I'm 32, 33 in December, a current PPL holder with NR, 60hrs in the book, the plan is to complete the ATPL's by this time next year or the latest May 2020 just before I travel to Poland in June 2020 for my MEP/MEIR/CPL. I'm completely aware that the ATPL's are on another level from what I've been through, I don't think I've ever spoken to anyone that has a single positive thing to say about the syllabus, structure or volume, in my head I'm mentality prepared for meltdown and prepped to have no life for the duration of the time I'm studying, so I really want to make sure I start out doing it right...it's there is such a thing! If possible, can any of you give me advice on what you found helped you during your study or even better, changes you made that worked better from when you sat your first exams, I'd love to hear your study structure, do's & don't's, tips, changes you made? Thanks a million!! |
Hi, everyone!
I'm 47 years old and a long time dreamer of aviation. Unfortunately financial costs have kept me away from a career in this business all my life. I'm now at a point in life where I think I either do something about flying now or just forget about it for ever. Financial costs are still a problem for me. However, I should be able to pay for a PPL right now. My question is if it is realistic to think that at this age I might still get some form of pay in aviation in the future. I know a PPL doesn't allow getting paid for flying. I'm asking about any possible qualifications after the PPL and realistic possibilities of getting jobs after any further investment after the PPL. I would be happy teaching, flying banners, towing or any other jobs as long as it meant flying :-) I don't have the ambition of working in an airline anymore. I live in the EU so I'm looking for opinions of people who know the european reality. I've already researched extensively all possible further certifications and costs and that's why I'm asking about market job reality for someone starting at this age. Thank you all for taking your time with my query. |
Job market reality for old wannabe
Hi, everyone!
I'm 47 years old and a long time dreamer of aviation. Unfortunately financial costs have kept me away from a career in this business all my life. I'm now at a point in life where I think I either do something about flying now or just forget about it for ever. Financial costs are still a problem for me. However, I should be able to pay for a PPL right now. My question is if it is realistic to think that at this age I might still get some form of pay in aviation in the future. I know a PPL doesn't allow getting paid for flying. I'm asking about any possible qualifications after the PPL and realistic possibilities of getting jobs after any further investment after the PPL. I would be happy teaching, flying banners, towing or any other jobs as long as it meant flying :-) I don't have the ambition of working in an airline anymore. I live in the EU so I'm looking for opinions of people who know the european reality. I've already researched extensively all possible further certifications and costs and that's why I'm asking about job market reality for someone starting at this age. Thank you all for taking your time with my query. |
Originally Posted by ImFlyingHigh
(Post 10434993)
Hi All,
It's my first post on here so apologies if this topic has been covered before. I'll be extremely grateful for any feedback received! So, I'm starting my ATPL distance learning in a month's time and I'm wondering what tips both past or present students found helped them. Annoyingly, my recent research has found so many conflicting responses from others to a point that I'm very confused as to what the best method is. Now I know everyone is different in terms of what way they retain information, but one of the biggest decisions I have to make is whether or not I focus on the questions banks more so than the books. In my opinion, time is against me so I do not want to start on the wrong foot, nor waste valuable time. I'm at the moment I'm 32, 33 in December, a current PPL holder with NR, 60hrs in the book, the plan is to complete the ATPL's by this time next year or the latest May 2020 just before I travel to Poland in June 2020 for my MEP/MEIR/CPL. I'm completely aware that the ATPL's are on another level from what I've been through, I don't think I've ever spoken to anyone that has a single positive thing to say about the syllabus, structure or volume, in my head I'm mentality prepared for meltdown and prepped to have no life for the duration of the time I'm studying, so I really want to make sure I start out doing it right...it's there is such a thing! If possible, can any of you give me advice on what you found helped you during your study or even better, changes you made that worked better from when you sat your first exams, I'd love to hear your study structure, do's & don't's, tips, changes you made? Thanks a million!! Similar profile here, i'm 30, finishing my PPL in France and expect to go in Poland or maybe another contry next year for CPL IR ME if I finish ATPL in time. I'm not of much help for you since I haven't started ATPL, but from what I've understood, if you want to be efficient, you should read the material to understand but not waste too much time on it and hit the question bank as quickly as you can since you'll normally have the same questions at the exam. Also hitting the question bank can show you where you need to study a bit more. Just my 2cts, as I have not started yet ATPL Theory but I'll soon. One question, if you are going to Poland, is it Bartolini ? Do you know if they are booked for 2020 or if there is still a slot avaliable before 2021 (I need to finish my PPL before I can reserve a slot, but I fear it's already too late for 2020) ? |
Originally Posted by jackrabbitslim7
(Post 10454772)
Hi,
Similar profile here, i'm 30, finishing my PPL in France and expect to go in Poland or maybe another contry next year for CPL IR ME if I finish ATPL in time. I'm not of much help for you since I haven't started ATPL, but from what I've understood, if you want to be efficient, you should read the material to understand but not waste too much time on it and hit the question bank as quickly as you can since you'll normally have the same questions at the exam. Also hitting the question bank can show you where you need to study a bit more. Just my 2cts, as I have not started yet ATPL Theory but I'll soon. One question, if you are going to Poland, is it Bartolini ? Do you know if they are booked for 2020 or if there is still a slot avaliable before 2021 (I need to finish my PPL before I can reserve a slot, but I fear it's already too late for 2020) ? Also, there are more than 50 ATOs in Poland. Bartolini is -almost- most famous of them. There are many cheaper schools out there. Make list, plan a trip and visit couple of them. ATOs in Poland are evolving -fastly- different states right now as I've seen some. You may find yourself in a very good ATO but also has very bad reputation online and vice versa. |
Hello there!
Originally Posted by Lightheart
(Post 5805777)
I'm 40. Have no family/children (yet.) or mortgage (had one) to concern myself with.
At 37 I started my flight training. When I went for my Class 1 medical the Spanish psychologist asked me "What the hell are you doing becoming a pilot at your age?" I asked him who he was to tell me what I could or couldn't do. He didn't reply. Got my FAA and JAA licences. Was away from my partner for 1.5 years and had to move back with my parents for a year. But I finally got there. Flown commercially in USA/Carib (yes, paid to do a First Officer Programme.) So what! You do what you gotta do to get on in life. It was a strategy to overcome the age aspect. It worked. After that I made a vow never to pay for training again. And I haven't. On returning to Europe was offered a job in the UK before even had my licence in my hand. Left that job to return to Spain (for personal reasons). A market where aviation is not strong. "Don't do it!" people in Spain with more hours than me said. If you're on a desert island, you have a choice. Survive or not. It is your choice. You decide what you want to manifest in your life. So on arriving back in Spain I boarded planes, trains, cars, got on my bike and visited all aviation companies I thought I could get into. I got two job offers in 6 weeks! Now I currently have two types current on my licence. I didn't pay for the rating either! I'm living in a great part of the word, even though I'm in rented accommodation and I'm earning a third of what I used to earn. But hey, I know that as soon as I get to 1500 hours a lot more doors will open. My life has had many changes. If you don't like change, don't take the plunge. But if you're like me, you now that in life change is inevitable. You want to get there no matter what the nay sayers say. You have to be FOCUSED, DISCIPLINED and SEE yourself there. There's only so much anaylsis you can do. The fear part is not knowing how things will turn out. That's normal. But if you have faith, are confident in yourself and know how to listen to that voice in your soul, you'll know what to do. Don't give away your power. Hope this has been of help. Kind regards! Safe landings 🛬 |
Hello there!
Originally Posted by merlinn
(Post 5805787)
Slight topic change here, but I notice some of the first threads were back in 2002! Would love to here from anyone that made it and stuck to their guns:ok:
Kind Regards safe landings! 🛬 |
Nowadays people normally start their training even on their 40s and they get a job...i would not be too much worried.
|
It does get a lot harder when you reach late 30's and 40's but it's not impossible, I wouldn't go all in on aviation at that age if you don't have a sound backup plan if you don't get a job
|
Originally Posted by Outofnowhere
(Post 10297826)
Hello there,
I was hoping for some guidance here. I am 37, based in Dubai for a full time Job. To be able to finance myself, I am considering the modular distant learning route. All support and guidance welcomed on the best academies to contact for an EASA fATPL. |
Originally Posted by Maxtakeoff
(Post 10480051)
Hi, am living in Dubai too and looking to do my ATPL. currently doing my PPL. Happy to chat through how am looking to do it. Cheers Alex
|
Mar100
Bom dia. It depends on what you're looking for WRT a flying job. I see you're realistic enough to know that an airline job is probably out of reach. If you're thinking about flying on the weekends while keeping your day job, then a CPL is realistic. In all seriousness, depending on what you spend, you probably won't earn the money back you'll spend but you will get some money to fly. I would avoid any big "sausage factory" schools out there. They aren't interested in you. I would look up any banner towing operations in Lisbon or Faro and ask them what they're looking for in a pilot. Good chance is that you'll need a tail wheel endorsement or something like that. Instructing is an option as well. First of all, get your health checked to a Class 1 standard. (Hearing, eye sight, diabetes, blood pressure etc). |
CPL Theory SOS!!!
Someone please help me!
The CPL Theory is doing my head in. I passed 5 of the exams. I failed performance twice. Now I'm gun-shy and my exams are expiring and I just can't seem to get the confidence to go back. I'm 36 and getting way too old to be starting a career. Help me I'm losing my #$&ing mind. Lance. |
Originally Posted by Stal83
(Post 10509031)
Someone please help me!
The CPL Theory is doing my head in. I passed 5 of the exams. I failed performance twice. Now I'm gun-shy and my exams are expiring and I just can't seem to get the confidence to go back. I'm 36 and getting way too old to be starting a career. Help me I'm losing my #$&ing mind. Lance. Think this work like a stairway. Subjects seems are completely different but actually their levels are preparing you to take the next step. We hear a lot of students fails once or twice if they take a difficult exam at this early stages. Please write the exams you passed already and I'll suggest a plan for you to prepare yourself for the next session. |
I am 32 with a PPL, Night qualification and around 177 hours total time. I would like to go commercial but feeling a bit stuck and unsure if its a dream or reality at 32. I need to complete the ATPL theory still so this would be the next step, I just want to make sure the funds are in place for the CPL and IR etc. I have a supportive wife and children and they want me to go for it. It all seems overwhelming now and I am wondering if its too late to go for it. I cant really explain the feeling but it makes me feel down wondering if that dream job is slipping away.I have never set a goal on aircraft type or dream airline I just want to fly for a career and keep an open mind with any opportunities. I think I just need that shove to make the jump and go for it. Can anyone offer me some words of wisdom and advice?
|
Originally Posted by Airlinepilot1687
(Post 10514912)
I am 32 with a PPL, Night qualification and around 177 hours total time. I would like to go commercial but feeling a bit stuck and unsure if its a dream or reality at 32. I need to complete the ATPL theory still so this would be the next step, I just want to make sure the funds are in place for the CPL and IR etc. I have a supportive wife and children and they want me to go for it. It all seems overwhelming now and I am wondering if its too late to go for it. I cant really explain the feeling but it makes me feel down wondering if that dream job is slipping away.I have never set a goal on aircraft type or dream airline I just want to fly for a career and keep an open mind with any opportunities. I think I just need that shove to make the jump and go for it. Can anyone offer me some words of wisdom and advice?
Wife, Children, Money etc. that's the hard part always. This is brutal and honest, in your circumstances you need to know what you are going into. Besides the money: 1. Do you have a backup plan if you don't get work straight away? 2. Can you survive while looking for work, do you have other "safe" income source that will cover you and your family? 3. Are you willing to re-locate to find work, and with this not just within the UK, but anywhere in Europe? You are not likely to find your first job on your doorstep. (either commuting, being away for long stretches and being home few days, or move with entire family?) 4. Can you live / survive on a pilots salary? (£1700 - £2200 a month for 4 - 5 years?) (does your wife have extra income, do you have any extra income or can you manage on this) It does get better after a while, but at least 3 years before you will see improvements, and most likely 4 - 5 to be honest. Because your first job will probably not be a place you want to stay for long, if you have to commute or move somewhere you don't like, so when you have experience and swap jobs, you start again at the bottom with many companies. Feel free to PM if you want more specific advice. It does depend on your circumstances, and it's not impossible, and you are definitely not to old, just go into with your eyes wide open. I know guys much older than you, and they made it. However if I was you I would get on to it now rather sooner than later. |
Originally Posted by topgunT23
(Post 10301261)
Cheers youngretired
Can anyone help with quick mental maths techniques for the likes of the tests? i.e. A man exchanges 368 pounds for dollars at an exchange rate of 1 pound=1:72 dollars. How many dollars does he get in return? (answer to the nearest dollar) If you travel 1248 miles, how much fuel will you need if you burn 4500 kgs per hour and are travelling at 72O mph?; A 737 flies 930 miles in 75 minutes. How many miles does it fly in 4 hours 45 minutes assuming as constant speed? If an aircraft departed an airfield and headed directly south for 16 miles and then turned onto a heading of 27O degrees for 12 minutes at an average speed of 80 miles per hour, how many miles is it (in a straight line) from its original destination? How many nautical miles can an aircraft travel if it is carrying 288O kgs of fuel and burns 240 kgs an hour averaging a speed of 375 knots? This sort of thing. It's up there but a bit cloudy after not using it for so long, so any quick help or poke in the right direction, as the topic has no doubt been covered on here before, would be greatly appreciated. Don't mean to hijack the post. If I need to ask elsewhere or start a new thread, please let me know. Ifyou can get 1.72 bucks to the pound. F..k flying. Get a job at Goldman’s ! 😉 |
Originally Posted by Airlinepilot1687
(Post 10514912)
I am 32 with a PPL, Night qualification and around 177 hours total time. I would like to go commercial but feeling a bit stuck and unsure if its a dream or reality at 32. I need to complete the ATPL theory still so this would be the next step, I just want to make sure the funds are in place for the CPL and IR etc. I have a supportive wife and children and they want me to go for it. It all seems overwhelming now and I am wondering if its too late to go for it. I cant really explain the feeling but it makes me feel down wondering if that dream job is slipping away.I have never set a goal on aircraft type or dream airline I just want to fly for a career and keep an open mind with any opportunities. I think I just need that shove to make the jump and go for it. Can anyone offer me some words of wisdom and advice?
Theory is not easy but it's not rocket science at the same time. Hundreds of thousands of people have done it, and they're not all smarter or more hardworking than you are surely? If you put your head down and read/study, you'll be fine. If I were you I wouldn't worry about age, difficulty, support, etc. I would just make sure that I'm ready for the sacrifices that come with a career like this, i.e. the lack of a high salary (at least to start with), potentially moving around my family, etc. If you and your family have considered this and are happy with it, GO FOR IT! |
Too old..??
Here you go... I'm 52 and trying to get my PPL.
Am I too old to think about making a career out of flying? My wife isn't too happy about the idea.. |
49 and three-quarters
Just a message for those who are not sure of realistic upper age limits: Last week at the age of 49 and 3/4 I was offered sponsorship for the Generation easyJet scheme at CAE. By the time I start I'll be 50. All I can say was that I never gave up trying and it shows that easyJet will be an outstanding company to work for. |
Originally Posted by Donegal
(Post 10526497)
Here you go... I'm 52 and trying to get my PPL.
Am I too old to think about making a career out of flying? My wife isn't too happy about the idea.. I do know few guys your age gone and worked as FI, financially will probably not be that rewarding, but it is something you could do part time if you have another job, if you just wish to fly. If you have realistic goals than you will need to review if you believe it's worth it. |
Originally Posted by dobbiej
(Post 10529714)
Just a message for those who are not sure of realistic upper age limits: Last week at the age of 49 and 3/4 I was offered sponsorship for the Generation easyJet scheme at CAE. By the time I start I'll be 50. All I can say was that I never gave up trying and it shows that easyJet will be an outstanding company to work for. |
Originally Posted by 2unlimited
(Post 10530003)
Sure, however the question is if it is a smart move to invest so much money, with so few years to get any return for it. It will be 5 - 6 years if not more, to get good earnings. That leaves you less than 8 - 9 years to make back your investment before it's game over. I would say unless you don't really need the £125.000 , and you have loads of excess cash, it would be madness to start so late in your career.
|
Originally Posted by dobbiej
(Post 10529714)
Just a message for those who are not sure of realistic upper age limits: Last week at the age of 49 and 3/4 I was offered sponsorship for the Generation easyJet scheme at CAE. By the time I start I'll be 50. All I can say was that I never gave up trying and it shows that easyJet will be an outstanding company to work for. I'll see how that goes, and if all goes well i might just go for me APTL.. I'm delighted for you dude, congratulations once again. |
Originally Posted by 2unlimited
(Post 10529999)
Depends what you want to do, airlines I doubt very much. Even if you would be able to get a job, including training and time before you would get a ok salary / pay from the time you find a job would at least take up to 6 - 8 years, and you will be close to retirement by that time.
I do know few guys your age gone and worked as FI, financially will probably not be that rewarding, but it is something you could do part time if you have another job, if you just wish to fly. If you have realistic goals than you will need to review if you believe it's worth it. Thanks again for your advice 👍. |
Originally Posted by 2unlimited
(Post 10530003)
Sure, however the question is if it is a smart move to invest so much money, with so few years to get any return for it. It will be 5 - 6 years if not more, to get good earnings. That leaves you less than 8 - 9 years to make back your investment before it's game over. I would say unless you don't really need the £125.000 , and you have loads of excess cash, it would be madness to start so late in your career.
|
[QUOTE=dobbiej;10529714] Just a message for those who are not sure of realistic upper age limits: Last week at the age of 49 and 3/4 I was offered sponsorship for the Generation easyJet scheme at CAE. By the time I start I'll be 50. All I can say was that I never gave up trying and it shows that easyJet will be an outstanding company to work for. [/QUOTEthat is brilliant congratulations, Do you mind telling us what you did previously career wise an what you have done that helped you to be successful in being offered the place. Have you applied in the past? |
Originally Posted by JumpSeat_M
(Post 10530162)
Will you ever be able to live with the regret of not chasing the dream. We don't get out alive, and you can't take the cash with you.
Everyone has special circumstances. Personally if I was close to 50 starting it, I would say don't do it unless you don't mind seeing anything of your £125.000. Risks far outweigh the rewards at this stage. Getting a job, medical etc. However if 125.000 is something that will not effect your life, than why not, but if it does, think very hard before you start. |
Originally Posted by 2unlimited
(Post 10530547)
If you pass the selection, they are not allowed to discriminate because of your age, so that's fair enough. However it's also about that you have the ability, and probably better ability to pay the £125.000 required to do the course, as the two criteria goes hand in hand. But is it a wise move? All depends on your personal circumstances. I would say it's nuts if you have family to take care of and this is your savings or it will put anything you have at risk. It took me 10 years before I could make a living wage with a large airline, and I started when I was 38.
you say you started at 38, what did you do previously if you don’t mind me asking. What was your reason for starting at 38? Thanks |
Legend
Originally Posted by dobbiej
(Post 10529714)
Just a message for those who are not sure of realistic upper age limits: Last week at the age of 49 and 3/4 I was offered sponsorship for the Generation easyJet scheme at CAE. By the time I start I'll be 50. All I can say was that I never gave up trying and it shows that easyJet will be an outstanding company to work for. |
Originally Posted by PiperTyro
(Post 10536841)
Dobbiej - congratulations and well done (from a 42 yo with 230 TT / PPL thinking why haven't I done this). Please update us on your progress from time to time and best of luck.
|
Originally Posted by dobbiej
(Post 10530050)
I get what you say but my point is nothing about money, it's about being the oldest cadet in Europe and as such I'm very proud👍 Well done |
OK here goes...
Pushing 58 next month and staring at the imminent rocking chair has induced last-chance panic... UK PPL (converting to EASA), FAA CPL/ME/IR 500 hours or so logged, non commercial and very little recent experience apart from a UK PPL(G) completed last year .. failed CAA class 1 medical over 20 years ago which ended my aspirations for the airlines but situation now means I have a chance of passing it now, I have an understanding wife who will support me and some cash in the bank, probably enough for the EASA CPL/ME/IR, currently live in the Caribbean with easy access to Florida. I had a recent conversation with a UK flight school owner who convinced me if I had an FI rating he would hire me.. so maybe, just maybe this could be my last chance to get a flying job; so just maybe I should dump the well payed corporate chains for an FI, never to fly the big stuff, but at least to end my working life in an aircraft.. Honestly, am I too old? |
Originally Posted by TangoXray
(Post 10545049)
Pushing 58 next month and staring at the imminent rocking chair has induced last-chance panic
... so just maybe I should dump the well payed corporate chains for an FI, never to fly the big stuff, but at least to end my working life in an aircraft.. Honestly, am I too old? Anyway, as I see it, your main issue is really "ROI"... As you yourself have already indicated, flying "The Big Stuff"™ isn't really going to be an option. So, your chances of recouping the costs involved of getting your quals is going to be fairly minimal. While you might have the cash to be able to do this now, where is that going to leave you for your inevitable retirement if you don't make it back through your wages/salary as an FI (assuming you can get employment)? If the desire is simply to fly and your corporate chains are "well paid" enough... have you considered simply sticking with that and using the extra cash to fund a lifestyle where you get to fly "what you want, when you want" by adding an MEIR to your existing licence? I'm not overly familiar with the UK/EU scene, but I assume that as a private pilot you can get an IR and a ME rating on a PPL? Perhaps even a share in a warbird syndicate or something? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it should be a hard no... but that you need to consider the ramifications of sinking all your cash reserves into this endeavour, as, unfortunately, you don't have the luxury of another 20-30 years to "rebuild" if it doesn't pan out. |
Brachetta;
Wish you good luck. You can and you will attain your goal. Stay motivated. Try to visualize yourself as if you are a Captain in you favorite airline. You will see a miracle. |
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