I have done the Boeing 737NG type rating with the computor and it was OK but only because it was backed up by an instructor who knew the aircraft very well.

It is the second type rating I have done on the computor (the other was the A320 airframe/engine maintenance) and both of these courses would have been useless without the help of an instructor however I still favor the old style "chalk and talk" type instruction.

Type Ratings
 

Just a quick question.....does anyone know whether the cost of a 737 type rating with Go or easyjet is paid for fully by the airline, or deducted monthly over a three year period from the employees salary?

Paying For Type Rating
 

Has anybody paid for a type rating with results (not the ryanair way) Heard a rumor that there are very few unemployed 737 and A320 type rated pilots out there. If this is true seems like a good way of getting your lucky break into the market. Anybody had any luck??

seems like some airlines want us to pay for type ratings. would be an advantge, in employers eyes, to have one but it's more expense. Will those that stump up and pay to do it set the prescedent for all of us. Guess money makes the world go round though!!!;)

Rednex

If our illustrious Moderators read this and reply I think they'll probably advise not. My two penny worth is:
1. I understand most companies want a type rating plus 3-500 hours on type.
2. Not doing the type rating with a specific comapny means you won't have learned their Standard Operating Procedures, which may be a draw back. ie they'll put you through a conversion anyway.

It's a difficult one but I think you may be better off keeping the CPL/IR current on a MEP and keeping/obtaining other work to live off until the break comes.

If it's any consolation I have nearly 5000 hours (2300 Mulit Jet) and I'm unemployed too. I will keep the IR current and not risk a 737 TR.

Best of luck and network as best you can.

I was in a similar position like you guys are now.I finished my training at the age of 33 and couldn't even get an interview with only 300 hrs and a surplus of pilots on the market with thousands of hrs experience.I was 3 yrs down the line and 45K poorer and so about 9 yrs ago I decided to mortgage the house and get a 320 rating.I was told that with my experience I would find it extremely difficult to get hired and that I was wasting my money.I figured that if I was to have any chance at all of any kind of flying job I had to give it a shot no matter how small the odds.Sure enough I didn't get a look in for a further 2 yrs but out of the blue came my lucky break where an operator based at LHR needed a type rated pilot to start within 2 days. I was ready even though my IR wasnt current and had only flown a handful of hrs on light A/c during that time. In my experience you need to make your own luck and make yourself as employable as possible to try and get to the front of the queue.I was nearly 38 when I got my first flying job and straight onto jets. I followed my gut feeling, if I hadn't I may have been left on the kerb.Once you get 500 hrs commercial experience behind you then you are in the system and will seldom look back. My advice is if you can afford to take the chance do it because it may just give you the edge.

It would be nice to see some more opinions on this matter, im seriously considering it myself, particularly in the light of what the IPA state, that they dont advise self-sponsered type ratings unless your a late starter. I consider myself in this category holding a frozen ATPL 520hrs and just turned 44.Will be an interesting thread this one.

Should be an interesting thread for sure! From what I've seen, many disapprove of this on the basis of people "buying their way in".

For those who disapprove, please bear in mind that those of us older fellows have worked hard for many years in nightmare jobs to build up the money to sponsor our selves through - we're probably already somewhat disadvantaged by age - if paying for a type rating offsets the grey hair somewhat, you can hardly begrudge us that...

However, I must say that rather than just do a type rating, I would try to get onto the CTC ATP scheme (if 34 or less). Seems a better route through to me and well respected. If over 34, perhaps talk to them for advice?

I do share concerns about it raising the bar for everyone but I think it's unlikely that the majority will go for it - it's just because of the market situation right now and I imagine it will go away again when hiring improves.

There will always be people willing to pay.
There will always be people willing to work for free.
The wannabes of today are working really hard to destroy the market for themselfs. In some countries even the goverment take an aktive part ie goverment finaced high school programs.

My tuppence worth is that I know of several people who bought their type ratings and where subsequently offered a job afterwards.

They all did their homework before hand, but none the less if's a seriously risky strategy.

Six years ago, base training on BM 737's was running at £43 a minute. Makes the IR rates seem cheap, but just imagine what sort of costs you could rack up if you needed a bit of extra time.

S

"There will always be people willing to work for free.
The wannabes of today are working really hard to destroy the market for themselves"


Totally agree. :rolleyes:

As has been said, it is a very high risk strategy, however the rewards are high.

If you can afford to lose the money, do it.

If you can't, do your homework and think it through properly before doing it. You are likely to be throwing that money away if your plans come to nought. Would the £15 or so grand be better spent on an instructors rating, leaving some cash over to help live on an instructor's salary?

As has been said, the CTC scheme is a better bet for those 34 or younger.

A well-worn route is buying a type rating on an older turboprop (Shed, F27) - the likes of BAC and Streamline get many of their pilots this way, so you stand a good chance of being employed and will get plenty of multi-turbine hours in return, however it's a lot of money to pay for a type rating on an obsolescent aircraft flown by few operators.

The other option is a B737 or A320 type rating. Personally, if I had the cash to throw away I'd be tempted to go for a 737NG rating due to the large number of potential airlines in the UK(whilst keeping an eye on Easy/Go's fleet expansion plans because they might go A320).

cheers!
foggy.

Saint00

Could you save the melodramatic opinions for the tabloids and try backing up what you surmise. (And that's "themselves", "Government", "active" and "financed".)

I'm no economist, but the aviation industry cycles through "booms" and "busts" like any other industry trailing the national economy. Pre-requisite experience vs training on-the-job has historically been a part of the labour market in not just the aviation industry for the better part of the last 3-4 decades. Whether prospective employees pay/don't pay, demand a wage/work for less is inextricably linked to the health of the industry and the economy. An open mind and calculated flexibility will get you further than clinging on to yesteryears ideals in todays market. Success favours the resourceful not the stoic - I've watched it happen around me at multiple levels in several industries. Besides those that you would accuse of killing the industry, be they employees or employers, would be by far the minority IMHO. Wake up and smell the daisies - times are changing.

foggy

Thank you - my point exactly.

I agree Chill.

It is how you act in the low times that will determine how the high times will be. A goverment can take an active part by having goverment sponsored traning when there is no need for it.
It is good old supply and demand. The times will change but the standards set today will remain.

Excuse my ignorance, Im seeing CTC mentioned all over different threads who are they, what do they do, and whats their web address?
cheers

Agree with what you're all saying on this matter. I guess we've just got to try our hardest to achieve our aims, but there will always be options to jump the queue!!;)

Jump the queue!? I was under the impression the seniority system started once you began employment, not training. :)

A type rating is a good idea, i am trying to orgaise one at the moment on the B737 but cannot get an aircraft plus they try an pair people up. If anyone is seriously interested email me.

Ta

the luckiest person i ever met was also the hardest working

Eager Beaver & Rednex
 

Requirements for a type rating
 

Is it necessary to have a current MEP class rating as well as a current Multi IR to undertake a type rating course in a multi engine aircraft?

JAR-FCL 1.250 - Type Rating, Multi Pilot - Conditions

(a) Pre-requisite for training: An applicant for the first type rating for a multi-pilot aeroplane type shall:

(1) have at least 100 hours as PIC of aeroplanes;
(2) have a valid multi-engine instrument rating (A).

(b) Training for additional multi-pilot type ratings require a valid multi-engine instrument rating.


From this it would appear you need the IR, but not the MEP Class rating.

Regards

You can't be holding a multi-engine instrument rating (A).
unless you have the ME class rating.

Not correct: under JAR they are separate things. It just means you cannot exercise the IR privileges in a twin, but if your SEP class rating is valid then you can exercise IR privileges on the single.

Cheers

Um hang on a mo....they may well be separate things...and always have been.

However, you cannot be pilot in command of a type that you do not have a class/type rating for...therefore unless you qualify for the MEP class rating you will be unable to take the flight test or renew the instrument rating. Even if the MEP isnt issued you must still have passed a skills test...

At least AFAIK this is the case...hence all OATS students etc will have valid MEP class ratings (deemed by having passed a ME skills test) *before* their IRT.

FF

Thanks for these replies. I think a few points are raised. While clearly to take an initial IR one needs the MEP class rating. However, if a renewal were done in a simulator, would the class rating still be needed as the "flight" is not actually done in an aircraft?
While this would obviously mean that the full privileges of the licence (i.e. to fly an MEP in IFR) could not be exercised, it would appear that the requirement to hold a Multi-IR in order to undertake a type -rating would be fulfilled.
Whilst having the MEP rating would be preferable, the chances of getting a Seneca type job with my low hours is non-existant, so I would like to be able to renew the IR using the cheap simulator option whilst retaining all the qualifications necessary to start a type-rating course if any jobs do appear.

I have a friend who just got hired, his MEP and multi IR were expired, it had to go in a sim and revalidate the multi IR ... the MEP was not required ... good luck ;)

why do some pilots pay for their type ratings?
 

Is there a huge risk if a pilot goes out after training and buys a 757 type rating and fails to find a job in a 757?
Do many people do them themselves and get jobs after a while?

Think most people who self-sponsored type ratings tend to so for turboprops rather than 757's et al.

Having said that, there's nothing stopping you going out and getting a B747 type rating on your PPL, not that it would be any use at all.

i guess many people (those who have lots of cash) go out and get type ratings just to show a potential employer that they are capable of obtaining ratings. Because a employer would hate nothing more than a new hired guy who can't pass the type rating check ride.

just my opinion though

Buying a type rating is generally a bad idea. In some cases, such as Southwest airlines, they required a 737 type rating (that may have changed), but that was for seasoned, qualified pilots to begin with.

In the U.S., at least, having a type in an airliner does not relieve your employer of the onus of sending you to school anyway. The pilot has to complete an approved training course. This can get complicated, but at the root of it, a mere type rating gets you...nowhere, at least from what I know.

I've seen plenty of guys get types, mostly in 737's, to try to "demonstrate" to employers that they "can fly the aircraft." For whatever reason, the employers don't seem to care.

The conventional wisdom is that a type without experience in that type is essentially worthless. As cynical as it is, I have to agree with it. If you're going to claw your way up in aviation, better to keep your cash safely in hand, 'cuz you'll need it for food!

Because they can?

I don't mean to be facetious, it's one of those things that IMHO you should do only if spending that much money on something that might turn out worthless does not bother you. It's a very high risk strategy (but it has worked for a few).

some employers trie to make you "buy" your own type rating.
if they dont find anybody with a type rating, tjey will pay you it.
when an airline run a B737, believe me, they can offer you the type rating.
So, STOP to pay for your type rating and it shows you have money and you can work for free too!

bye the way, I offer 500h on B767 for 50'000$.Must have JAA or FAA ATPL frozen and type rating!

:D

Gorky - I have 300 hrs and have just recently got a 767 rating and I am interested in buying 500 hrs on type. Is this offer only available in the US ?? If so can you set up the visas etc ??

sorry professor,
you must have atp with 6000h on the b767.
only pilot with space shuttle experience will be considered to fly from Gatwick.
:D

yo gorky .. if ya give me a 50/50 cut then i wont report you to authorities :D :D

Southwest no longer require a Type rating at interview, If they like you they will give you a conditional job offer, the condition being that you get a type rating before you start.

mattpilot,
I work for ryanair,authority do what I say...:D

Professor Fog,

You obviously have a lot more money than sense!

Its bad enough paying in some cases up to £60K for a fATPL, in order to get a job.

This way of training and with no structured route into a definite job on graduation is ludicrous, and anyone from any other business looking at us would think we are all mad.

Well maybe we are, but paying for a type rating too, is just taking it too far! At that stage and probably before, this industry has made a complete fool of you and and us all!

Shed type rating or AQC at CTC
 

Morning all

A question to any recruiting personell or anyone who has gone down this route.
Have at the moment a fATPL with an FI(R) just added and have bieng offered some part time instructing, but this will not pay the bills.
Late Sept early Oct it looks likley that I will be made redundant from my non flying job so will have a small payoff plus golden handshake if lucky.
Question is, do I get myself a shed type rating or similar or get myself down to Dibden and do the Airline Qualification Course in the hope of making myself employable, only 300 hrs TT at present.

Regards

Flying F

FF

I'm thinking along the same lines myself, especially considering that the Shed rating can be done at Southend so I have no accommodation costs.

Both are a gamble really, although you can go through the first two stages of the CTC selection if you're under 34 (or whatever the limit is) without paying a penny - the AQC forms the third stage of selection.

At the moment I'm leanign toward the shed rating, but I change my mind often (plus its two grand more expensive)

cheers!
foggy.