Oh for God sake tailscrape - you know as well as I do that DHL aren't going to replace a fleet of 757's with 375 x C208's!

What I'm saying is that if people are going to pay for type ratings they should be looking at modern aircraft like the PC12 and 208 which will more than likely start to substantially increase their presence in UK airspace from mid next year.

I will however suggest that some of the F27/SH360/HS748/Electra etc class operators might suffer some loss of market share - perhaps to a more frequent, smaller capacity Caravan fleet.

I'd hate to see young folks paying large sums of money to operators like Streamline and BAC Express for type ratings which might be in less demand in 12 months time. In fact I hate to see wannabes paying for them at all :mad:

Grivation,

Yes, well you see your advice has people jumping up and down because they imagine that what you say may well happen.

Look at the post immediately after your first one.

Some chap was bursting at the thought of doing such a type rating, not because he wants to fly the airplane perhaps but more likely because you mention DHL and FEDEX......

Things are slowly improving, and people paying for ratings only slows the market all the more. Your sentiment about paying for ratings is spot on, but there are people on this forum in particular who are desperate for a job.

I would hate them to be misguided.:rolleyes:

Point taken and noted - DHL & Fedex references removed to avoid misleading idiots!;)

For a low houred wannabe heading off to Africa/Asia looking for work I could think of a lot worse things in a logbook than a C208 rating! Think outside the UK - there's a great big world out there.

So I finally get a chance to sit down and read this week's Flight Int and what greets me on the first page (I always read from back to front!) -

"Newly qualified pilot looking for initial interview for right hand seat. 300 hours, 62 multi (god forbid!). WILLING TO PAY FOR OWN TYPE RATING." :(

We really must stop this kids!

Types
 

A useful type rating is one that gets you the job. If you are guaranteed a position upon completing a type course and the promised job will cover for the investment, then I say , go for it.

Statistically a B737 type would be the best type to get as there are quite a bunch of B737´s flying around the world. But this depends what you want to do and where you are aiming at. If you want to fly a Caravan a B727 type will do you no good.

I would be very careful of investing a lot of money intio a rating that you might not able to use. This is especially true with lowtime pilots (Under 1000 hours). A 300 hour pilot with a B737 or B747 type with no experience in the aircraft , well,you only demonstrate that you can pass a training course and a checkride and will be in the bottom of the line when pilots are being selected with virtually everyone with time in type in front of you. Airlines still will train you to their standards and procedures regardless if you have a type or not.

Cheers

SIZE=1]Hey what the f**k is going in here?

Hey Grivation first of all I don't understand why you mislead only idiots (probably like me) when you talk bout Fedex and etc.

I agree about getting a usefull type rating (and that's why I asked more info about the C208) but Tailscrape was right about explaining the situation in Europe (there are "idiots" that don't know the situation as well as you do) and I gotta say you are right when you say that the world is big and that a type rating in such airplanes could help to get a job somewhere else than Europe (but they usually ask also for experience on type which is even harder to get).

Tailscrape what's the problem?
There are a lot of unployed pilots out there that will probably pay for a type rating but I don't think you should stop them (if you wanna get hired you should be among the bests and this means you should have something more than everybody else, like a Type rating)

If I can I will try to get something without paying for anything but hey everybody needs to work don't we????

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Grivation,

Saw your comments regarding BAC and felt I had to comment/inform. BAC don't just take anyone who is willing to pay for the rating. There was an interview followed by a sim check (out of 6, only 2 got selected). In my case, the job was offered before I paid for the rating. Of course I would rather not have paid for the rating but at my age (early 30's), and desperate to get a flying job, do you think I should have waited for some company to say:

"Hey, here's this kid who has NO experience, NO type rating, NO time on any type, NO commercial experience; why don't we just spend a whole heap of cash on him and see what happens"

Given the amount of newly qualified wannabes out there, it's a very difficult task trying to compete with the next bloke who has the same hours (<500 total time). A type rating in this case could/would help.

I would not however pay for a type rating before being offered the job. I say, get the job then pay if you have to. Nothing worse than completing the rating and the company to say, "Sorry, looks like we are all crewed up, call us again in 6 months"

Well, v1, I got a letter from BAC in reply to my CV saying something along the lines of thank you, but we have no vacancies at present, but would be happy to sell you a TR. It was also made clear that they would only employ those with TR's. Read into that what yo like, but I'm not rushing into it.

S

type rating&flight time or...
 

Hello,

I was recently told that doing an MCC together with a type rating is much better than an MCC by itself: someone told me that an MCC by itself it's useless and I can save money by doing it together with a TR. Does it make any sense?
Another question: better a B737 type rating and 0 flight time or a B737 first officer program with plenty of flight time but also extremely expensive?
The point is that a job is not guaranteed both with the TR or TR+few hundred hours, and the second option is 3 times more expensive...
opinions are very welcome! my email: [email protected]

Oh dear.

I hope you've got your bullet proof vest on. This place does not advocate doing type ratings.

When I did the MCC, I was told something completely different, and it was suggested that if you run into trouble with the TR, they would use the MCC as a means of catching up, ie less of the genuine MCC stuff. I'd also watch out for companies selling TR's.

S

Type rating the last hoop
 

Never done a Poll so here we go….

In the past weeks I have been reading posts on Pprune on the topic of “buying” your own type rating. When you talk to some smaller airlines in Europe they all have the regular hoops they want you to jump. And it seems that a Type Rating is the last. I have been in touch with a small airline and they said that they would write a “letter of conditional employment” if I indeed got the type. So the big question is.

Just out of interest how many people bought there type rating to get a job…
and how many did buy the type only to be told “sorry you need time on type”

Before you jump all over me and tell me about that we pilots must stick together and all that.
I do agree… but there are always daddy’s boys out there and they are doing it!
So why not Me?. A poor man looking to asked the bank manager… “Can I have some more please”?
I know the market is bad right now and that things will get better ….. but that does not help when you have goals and dreams.

All advice and remarks are highly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
AK

...an interesting proposal would be?
 

Thanks for answering Splat. I'm not willing to spend plenty of money for a TR either. The point is, what else can I do? I've been catching up the rumors around, however nobody proposed anything really interesting and feasible.
A Quick entry to a big airline through an 8 months training was interesting for example, however, at least in my country, these trainings are being suspended.

Perhaps there is NO quick way in..... A lot of people should realise that me think.

About the Caravan
 

I have heard the talks about the Caravan getting appoved by the CAA for public Transport when I fist got involved with it, in 1997 (5 years ago).
Yes things will change but no one really knows when for sure. Wait until it happens.
Also, I have worked for a European operator operating the type and I can tell you one thing. No other type rating than one acquired through Flight Safety was accepted by the insurance people.
Bear that in mind if you think the Cargo airlines are about to get some.
How many guys have I seen turning up with the 208 endorsment thinking it would give them an edge ?
Well as much as they were all nice and friendly there was no other way but to bond them again after that had already spent a few grands in a course.

Before you all rush and do the cheapest Class rating you can find just because you think it will give you an edge. Wait to see what will really happen.
Also the UK isn't the States, there won't be 100s of Caravan wearing the Fedex's colors. A few but not hundreds so if you all rush and do it all you end up achieving is spending more money and once again, face the same old competition.

If I were you, I would work on my IR currency, regular flying, networking rather than rushing into something with limited prospects (none at the moment).

How about an option that says -

'Would never consider paying for a type rating because it erodes industry terms and conditions and is a legitimate business expense that operators should be paying for!!!!!!'

Number if you're intent on spending money why don't you go and build some piston multi time somewhere (US, Canada, Australia). Or why not do some add-on ratings - floats, tailwheel, aeros etc. Anything that shows you've got well rounded experience will make your cv stand out.

And thank God you're not willing to spend money on a type rating - hopefully the message is getting through!

V1rotate - I don't have a problem with people paying for a type rating or negotiating a bonding period in lieu if they have been offered a job. If that was the case with you then well done!

What I don't like is people paying for type ratings without a job offer or companies like BAC Express and Streamline who are obviously using desperate wannabes to improve their bottom line.

I think people pay for type ratings in the hope that it will rocket them onto the 'bottom rung of the ladder'. However, what they don't realise is that they are effectively 'removing' that bottom rung for people coming behind them. What's next? Pay for a type rating then work for a year for free? There goes the second rung of the ladder!

As usual from AMEX, sound advice that's to the point; and as it's from a man who can actually claim involvement in this particular loop ( and not just a speculator or spectator) , it's to be hoped some of the wanabee's will listen to it.

I know how desperate some are out their for that first job, i know its soul destroying looking at the loan statements and thinking " what the hell have i done?", but if you still have access to funds, please, do as the man says, spend them on currency.

Anyone else out their remember the late 80's when things were almost as bad as they are at the moment ?...remember the hot conversation topic around the bar's we flyer's and wannabee's frequented....??

You guessed it....type ratings, and their mythical ability to open doors.

Didn't work then for anyone i heard of......doubt it'll work now.

Unless, of course, you really are champing at the bit to go work in sunny africa, and knowing that continent "just maybe"....although i'm sure thats not quite what any of you envisioned when you started that ab-initio course all that time ago. I'm bloody sure it's definately NOT what you promised your significant other.

Spend your money wisely guys, please; or alternatively, why not just say you'll work for free, or at least a handfull of rice at the end of the month.....and yes, that was sarcasm.

AMEX speaks the truth and obviously from a position of considerable experience in general aviation. I had seriously considered doing the rating myself but decided against it exactly for the reasons stated by AMEX.

Finally picked up my weekly copy of Flight International today (yes late I know) and noticed at the back was an advert placed by an obviously desperate low hour pilot, openly offering to pay for a type rating in exchange for a job. Whilst I have the utmost sympathy for this individual, being in similar position myself, I can't help but feel what kind of impression he must be giving to everyone seeing his ad, including airline recruitment staff.

I'll be shortly returning to my old profession of soliciting :eek: and saving up for an FIC in due course. Still plan to retire at 60 or thereabouts and go live in sunnier climes! Gotto have something to aim for in life!

Chin up everyone!:cool:

How does buying your own type rating erode your subsequent terms and conditions? I would have thought if they paid for it then, contractually, they prolly got you by the short and curlies.