Demand for Pilots
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Demand for Pilots
Over the last year or so I have heard much talk about pilot retirement. With airlines, (other than the low cost carriers) not recruiting as prolificly than in years gone by, might suggest a huge demand for pilots in the not so distant future.
I have it on good authority that BA have a substantial pilot retirement programme coming up. With no current sponsorship scheme offered by BA and most airlines, where are these pilots going to come from? There can only be a limited amount from direct entry and those that are recommended by Chief Flight Instructors during training. I would be interested in hearing the current volumes of students undertaking self sponsored training in light of the lack of funded schemes avaliable. Are the schools churning out the same amount of pilots as in better years gone by?
If not, then now might be a good time to start training, considering a potential pilot shortage?
Any thoughts
I have it on good authority that BA have a substantial pilot retirement programme coming up. With no current sponsorship scheme offered by BA and most airlines, where are these pilots going to come from? There can only be a limited amount from direct entry and those that are recommended by Chief Flight Instructors during training. I would be interested in hearing the current volumes of students undertaking self sponsored training in light of the lack of funded schemes avaliable. Are the schools churning out the same amount of pilots as in better years gone by?
If not, then now might be a good time to start training, considering a potential pilot shortage?
Any thoughts
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Sorry Tony Blair I did mean to include the low cost carriers as well as the JMC/Britannia charters in the sponsorships. I was really referring to the larger airlines such as BA, Virgin, BMi and a couple of the smaller ones like Aer lingus, Air2000 etc.
Virgin and BMI are larger than easyJet and Ryanair? Sooorely shome mishtake!
The answer to your question is a conundrum concealed in an enigma.
Don't focus too much on the demand side. Look also at the supply side with the likes of SAS laying off 300 pilots and Air Liberte looking a little unsteady amongst many others.
WWW
The answer to your question is a conundrum concealed in an enigma.
Don't focus too much on the demand side. Look also at the supply side with the likes of SAS laying off 300 pilots and Air Liberte looking a little unsteady amongst many others.
WWW
I say there boy
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Oh no, not another 'pilot shortage' thread.
Now that Buzz is being folded into Ryanair, that takes out yet another player hiring in the UK job market. They were making noises about hiring fairly aggressively this year.
The whole bottom end of the market appears to be consolidating around the two big low-cos, who have a standardised recruitment policy designed to save them money today rather than develop pilots for tomorrow, to the detriment of the smaller turboprop airlines that traditionally were the first rung on the ladder for self-improvers.
IMHO all these are bad developments for the many hundreds if not thousands of self-improvers currently looking for jobs in the UK.
I wouldn't recommend that anyone tries to get into this industry at the moment, because, 18 months on from Sep-11, it appears to be going from bad to worse.
cheers!
foggy.
Now that Buzz is being folded into Ryanair, that takes out yet another player hiring in the UK job market. They were making noises about hiring fairly aggressively this year.
The whole bottom end of the market appears to be consolidating around the two big low-cos, who have a standardised recruitment policy designed to save them money today rather than develop pilots for tomorrow, to the detriment of the smaller turboprop airlines that traditionally were the first rung on the ladder for self-improvers.
IMHO all these are bad developments for the many hundreds if not thousands of self-improvers currently looking for jobs in the UK.
I wouldn't recommend that anyone tries to get into this industry at the moment, because, 18 months on from Sep-11, it appears to be going from bad to worse.
cheers!
foggy.
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WWW,
At the moment there is a pilot surplus, and with a prolonged conflict with Iraq there are rumours (staff grapevine) that BA would suspend flights from Gatwick. Whatever the outcome (with Iraq) the worse case scenario is yet more pilots in a holding pool for employment.
I think you are right to point at the supply side of things, but as a wannabe it is important to try and track the cyclality of emploment in the industry. Perhaps not an easy task. I was just inquisitive about the current numbers going through training at the moment in light of the current uncertainty. Any ideas?
At the moment there is a pilot surplus, and with a prolonged conflict with Iraq there are rumours (staff grapevine) that BA would suspend flights from Gatwick. Whatever the outcome (with Iraq) the worse case scenario is yet more pilots in a holding pool for employment.
I think you are right to point at the supply side of things, but as a wannabe it is important to try and track the cyclality of emploment in the industry. Perhaps not an easy task. I was just inquisitive about the current numbers going through training at the moment in light of the current uncertainty. Any ideas?
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Every year the 'pilot retirement bulge' story turns up, and every year it never quite happens.
With an 18 month to 2 year lead in time to go from student to FATPL with 300 hours, you will never be in a position to judge how the market will be when you qualify.
With an 18 month to 2 year lead in time to go from student to FATPL with 300 hours, you will never be in a position to judge how the market will be when you qualify.
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There is not now, nor is there ever likely to be, a shortage of pilots willing to enter training. There have always been more wannabes than jobs. Even if the 'retirement bulge' at BA were true (it's not), the replacements for these experienced commanders were recruited some years ago - no airline waits for its most experienced people to leave and then recruits inexperienced cadets as replacements!
The shortage, apparent even in this difficult market, is of experienced, type rated pilots who are willing to move airlines.
Scroggs
Virgin/Wannabes Moderator
[email protected]
The shortage, apparent even in this difficult market, is of experienced, type rated pilots who are willing to move airlines.
Scroggs
Virgin/Wannabes Moderator
[email protected]
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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Hi folks,
I get the feeling that things *might* be on the up for low houred guys. I know of three chaps who got their licences at the turn of the new year and now have airline jobs. Two on jets and one on a modern turbo-prop. Admitedly I know about another 25 guys who're still looking but hey - three's better than nothing!
VFE.
[Edited for schoolboy error!]
I get the feeling that things *might* be on the up for low houred guys. I know of three chaps who got their licences at the turn of the new year and now have airline jobs. Two on jets and one on a modern turbo-prop. Admitedly I know about another 25 guys who're still looking but hey - three's better than nothing!
VFE.
[Edited for schoolboy error!]
Last edited by VFE; 6th Feb 2003 at 11:39.
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hi guys
I am a pilot with 900 hours + on twin engines (not jets) and have recently applied to KLM for their turboprop first officer jobs. I know this may mean working abroad in Europe but a job is a job. I also know this is just turboprop but everyone has to start somewhere. I got a letter inviting me for interviews and testing not long ago so things are looking up. My advice is to start off small even if you're used to jets.
cheers,
Iain
I am a pilot with 900 hours + on twin engines (not jets) and have recently applied to KLM for their turboprop first officer jobs. I know this may mean working abroad in Europe but a job is a job. I also know this is just turboprop but everyone has to start somewhere. I got a letter inviting me for interviews and testing not long ago so things are looking up. My advice is to start off small even if you're used to jets.
cheers,
Iain
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Hey there Iain.
Good to see someone from Lincoln. That's a favourite night out for me! Just out of curiosity, your profile says that you hold a PPL. How did you get your turbo prop hours without the need for a CPL? I suppose para dropping would do it.
Cheers Mate, Bill
Good to see someone from Lincoln. That's a favourite night out for me! Just out of curiosity, your profile says that you hold a PPL. How did you get your turbo prop hours without the need for a CPL? I suppose para dropping would do it.
Cheers Mate, Bill
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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Well worked out superpilot68 but my point was more about the fact those guys got jobs within a month of graduating......leaving scope for the figure to *hopefully* hold steady for next month too.
So.........if the trend holds steady all my mates should have jobs by about 1500hrs GMT on October 3rd this year!
VFE.
So.........if the trend holds steady all my mates should have jobs by about 1500hrs GMT on October 3rd this year!
VFE.
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I read in the letters page of a recent issue of Flight International 14-20 January that 'apocryphal evidence suggests that upto a third of those who set out to self-fund professional pilot training never achieve their dream of airline employment'.
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Remember that there are people who embark on commercial training with no intention of being employed by an airline. Air Taxi and instruction are just a few non-airline areas that some people only have an interest in!
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iainc13,
congratulations on getting your interview even though it is with KLM one of Europes oldest and most established airlines. I admire the fact that you are prepared to work in Europe ( trying to remember which continent Lincoln is in) but as you say "a job is a job." Will you be quoting that to them at the interview ?
I am not sure what you mean by "start off small even if you are used to jets". I suppose a First officer position on Turboprops with a major airline is a bit of a let down if you did your training on 747's but not many people do. Still as you say "everyone has to start somewhere.
I wouldn't advocate your advice to KLM at the interview as they might ( and I am only guessing here ) be singularly unimpressed.
Still good luck.
congratulations on getting your interview even though it is with KLM one of Europes oldest and most established airlines. I admire the fact that you are prepared to work in Europe ( trying to remember which continent Lincoln is in) but as you say "a job is a job." Will you be quoting that to them at the interview ?
I am not sure what you mean by "start off small even if you are used to jets". I suppose a First officer position on Turboprops with a major airline is a bit of a let down if you did your training on 747's but not many people do. Still as you say "everyone has to start somewhere.
I wouldn't advocate your advice to KLM at the interview as they might ( and I am only guessing here ) be singularly unimpressed.
Still good luck.
I look back on my time working for BAe in Jerez.
A British PLC, setting up a Spanish company relocating a British operation to an EU state. Employing instructors from numerous JAA States who trained and worked in countries around the globe before Jerez. The students came from just about every European country you could imagine and we flew British registered aircraft commercially in Spain paying local taxes and obeying Spanish CAA flying rules.
It was an illustrative lesson in the operation of liberalised free market labour and legislation.
Look to the near future. Both Ryanair and easyJet opening bases in JAA/EU countries with ambitious expansion plans. You might find yourself employed by an Irish or British airline based in Bergamo, Hahn, Orly or Munich. Whether you are Irish, British, Italian, German, French, Portugese or soon Czech or Polish etc. etc.
Its a fact that English being the Lingua Franca of aviation puts the mono-lingual Brit at a disadvantage in his employment search. But in fairness, the other chaps multi-linguistic skill is just that: a skill. A useful, tradeable skill acquired with application and effort.
To decry this skill or the legislation that allows its deployment is to fight a loosing battle. The Genie of the EU and the JAA are out of the bottle. Learn to live with it and recognise the opportunties it brings. Fancy a base in Manchester or Milan? Aberdeen or Alicante? Newcastle or Nice? These are some of the possiblities that EU and JAA membership now present.
At the end of the day you hear all sorts of accents flying G reg aircraft. But from my understanding - you hear British accents flying all over the globe in all nationalities of aircraft registrations.
If you really wanted all foreigners out of G-reg aircraft you would have to accept all British pilots back from around the globe.
I suspect the net result would not be that which you desire.
WWW
A British PLC, setting up a Spanish company relocating a British operation to an EU state. Employing instructors from numerous JAA States who trained and worked in countries around the globe before Jerez. The students came from just about every European country you could imagine and we flew British registered aircraft commercially in Spain paying local taxes and obeying Spanish CAA flying rules.
It was an illustrative lesson in the operation of liberalised free market labour and legislation.
Look to the near future. Both Ryanair and easyJet opening bases in JAA/EU countries with ambitious expansion plans. You might find yourself employed by an Irish or British airline based in Bergamo, Hahn, Orly or Munich. Whether you are Irish, British, Italian, German, French, Portugese or soon Czech or Polish etc. etc.
Its a fact that English being the Lingua Franca of aviation puts the mono-lingual Brit at a disadvantage in his employment search. But in fairness, the other chaps multi-linguistic skill is just that: a skill. A useful, tradeable skill acquired with application and effort.
To decry this skill or the legislation that allows its deployment is to fight a loosing battle. The Genie of the EU and the JAA are out of the bottle. Learn to live with it and recognise the opportunties it brings. Fancy a base in Manchester or Milan? Aberdeen or Alicante? Newcastle or Nice? These are some of the possiblities that EU and JAA membership now present.
At the end of the day you hear all sorts of accents flying G reg aircraft. But from my understanding - you hear British accents flying all over the globe in all nationalities of aircraft registrations.
If you really wanted all foreigners out of G-reg aircraft you would have to accept all British pilots back from around the globe.
I suspect the net result would not be that which you desire.
WWW
