End of CAA UK ATPL Examinations!!!!!
Guest
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End of CAA UK ATPL Examinations!!!!!
Hi!
I need your help. I'm trying to get hold of anyone who is about to lose out by the withdrawal of the UK ATPL exams and the typical inflexible attitude of the CAA. If this applies to you I would appreciate hearing from you with a brief outline of your individual circumstances regarding this issue.
Any feedback would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
I need your help. I'm trying to get hold of anyone who is about to lose out by the withdrawal of the UK ATPL exams and the typical inflexible attitude of the CAA. If this applies to you I would appreciate hearing from you with a brief outline of your individual circumstances regarding this issue.
Any feedback would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Guest
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CPL/MEIR 450 hours TT. Been in the system long enough to be 'entitled' to do the UK CAA ATPL. Subjects and examinations not a lot different to the 'credits' I already have at CPL level.
Other pressures have forced me to leave these examinations until just recently (We all know the cost of CPL/IR) and now, like many others I saw at Shuttleworth last week, I am struggling. If last licence issue is June 2002 then one should be able to aquire all the pre-requisites up until that date!
Other pressures have forced me to leave these examinations until just recently (We all know the cost of CPL/IR) and now, like many others I saw at Shuttleworth last week, I am struggling. If last licence issue is June 2002 then one should be able to aquire all the pre-requisites up until that date!
Guest
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As far as I'm concerned people have no reason to complain about the CAA withdrawing the exams at the end of June. They put this rule in a long time ago, gave people plenty of warning and have already withdrawn the partial pass rules. JAA exams have been in place a while now, so there is no excuse. Apart from a few exceptional circumstances, the majority of people struggling to meet the deadline should have gone for the JAA exams.
The CAA have to put a cut-off date and have to stand by it - everyone complains when they bring things forward (fair enough) but everyone knew (or should have known) the rules when they started.
No matter how much longer they extend the deadline, some people will always not make it. I reckon they've played fair with the written exam rules.
The CAA have to put a cut-off date and have to stand by it - everyone complains when they bring things forward (fair enough) but everyone knew (or should have known) the rules when they started.
No matter how much longer they extend the deadline, some people will always not make it. I reckon they've played fair with the written exam rules.
Guest
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THTF,
I must say that I don't agree with you for several reasons.
I've had a CPL for nearly 10 years now, but never realy done anything CPL related to it. It's fair to say that I've been out of the loop for a while now, and the deadlines have come as a surpise to me. CAA are quick to take your money, but they know who we are, and surely they should at the least send a letter advising of the changing rules.
In addition, I'm not sure that they know what the current state of play is with the regs. Testimony to this is the amount of correspondense on this board alone. I've spent ages on the phone to them, written countless letters, and in some areas I'm none the wiser. Further evidence of the JAA cock up is the introduction of the 'National' PPL. I would not bet against a 'National' CPL or abandonment of the JAA. I rest my case.
If someone embarkes upon a career of dentistry, and was told that the requirement was 3 years study and 3 years practical, then one was qualified to practice, there would be an outrage if after 6 years one was told that there was more to do, or the exams had changed and more study was required. That's commercial aviation in the UK.
Sorry to rant, but a pet hate of mine.
Basicaly, if you get a commercial job reasonably quickly after getting all the licence requirements, the commercial aviation sector is behind you to protect your licence. As an individual, you are shafted.
I must say that I don't agree with you for several reasons.
I've had a CPL for nearly 10 years now, but never realy done anything CPL related to it. It's fair to say that I've been out of the loop for a while now, and the deadlines have come as a surpise to me. CAA are quick to take your money, but they know who we are, and surely they should at the least send a letter advising of the changing rules.
In addition, I'm not sure that they know what the current state of play is with the regs. Testimony to this is the amount of correspondense on this board alone. I've spent ages on the phone to them, written countless letters, and in some areas I'm none the wiser. Further evidence of the JAA cock up is the introduction of the 'National' PPL. I would not bet against a 'National' CPL or abandonment of the JAA. I rest my case.
If someone embarkes upon a career of dentistry, and was told that the requirement was 3 years study and 3 years practical, then one was qualified to practice, there would be an outrage if after 6 years one was told that there was more to do, or the exams had changed and more study was required. That's commercial aviation in the UK.
Sorry to rant, but a pet hate of mine.
Basicaly, if you get a commercial job reasonably quickly after getting all the licence requirements, the commercial aviation sector is behind you to protect your licence. As an individual, you are shafted.
Guest
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If all the dentists in Europe were being combined under one organisation, as a result of the massive amount of changes involved I think you would find a lot of dentists who missed certain deadlines to convert their UK Dentist licence to a Joint Dentist Authorities licence.
Guest
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Totally agree with THTF. There has been more than enough warning of the termination of national exams, in Pilot and Flyer, in AICs, letters sent to Heads of Training, the website, etc, etc. Let's face it, there will always be a few individuals who will insist on finding someone else to blame for their own inadequacies - luckily, it's a tiny minority.
The NPPL cock-up was, as it happens, nothing to do with either the JAA or the CAA. It was wholly the result of the ill-advised insistence of AOPA that the PPL was included in JAR-FCL1 in the first place. Having made it more difficult and expensive to gain a PPL AOPA then had to find a face-saving way out - hence the ridiculous NPPL which, in practice, will be no cheaper, no quicker and significantly more restrictive. It is hardly surprising that a large majority of CFI's will have nothing whatever to do with it.
The NPPL cock-up was, as it happens, nothing to do with either the JAA or the CAA. It was wholly the result of the ill-advised insistence of AOPA that the PPL was included in JAR-FCL1 in the first place. Having made it more difficult and expensive to gain a PPL AOPA then had to find a face-saving way out - hence the ridiculous NPPL which, in practice, will be no cheaper, no quicker and significantly more restrictive. It is hardly surprising that a large majority of CFI's will have nothing whatever to do with it.
Guest
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THTF / RC
Who are you guys? CAA/FCL in drag?
I thought we all aspired to the same thing - were all in it together etc, etc.
What I cannot believe is that THTF / RC haven't noticed that FCL were at one point issuing GID ammendments to ammendments of ammendments at an alarming rate.
In January 1999 I sent my logbook into FCL for a SOR - They sent it back saying they no longer issued SOR and that I should refer to the GIDs /AICs for any information on requirements.
Given the GID ammendment rate how dare the two pr*ts THTF/RC suggest that people like myself who work full time, 4 young kids, wife, mortgage etc who are doing all the work in the short breaks they get from all thier other commitments have been lax in allowing the dead line to creep up .
These two wise guys are either in the National System and though it, and are saying " pull the ladder up Jack, I'm all right" or they missed the boat and had to do JAA when they really wanted to go National - Whatever they are bitter and their unhelpfull and divisive remarks have no place on PPrune.
CS
Who are you guys? CAA/FCL in drag?
I thought we all aspired to the same thing - were all in it together etc, etc.
What I cannot believe is that THTF / RC haven't noticed that FCL were at one point issuing GID ammendments to ammendments of ammendments at an alarming rate.
In January 1999 I sent my logbook into FCL for a SOR - They sent it back saying they no longer issued SOR and that I should refer to the GIDs /AICs for any information on requirements.
Given the GID ammendment rate how dare the two pr*ts THTF/RC suggest that people like myself who work full time, 4 young kids, wife, mortgage etc who are doing all the work in the short breaks they get from all thier other commitments have been lax in allowing the dead line to creep up .
These two wise guys are either in the National System and though it, and are saying " pull the ladder up Jack, I'm all right" or they missed the boat and had to do JAA when they really wanted to go National - Whatever they are bitter and their unhelpfull and divisive remarks have no place on PPrune.
CS
Guest
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Totaly agree with Spud.
This whole topic that has been aired many many times before is further testimony that many others do too.
'Let's face it, there will always be a few individuals who will insist on finding someone else to blame for their own inadequacies - luckily, it's a tiny minority.' -
This is an insulting comment, bordering on the rubish issued by that ronch bloke, but even acording to FCL, it's not a minority, although that comment made to me was naturaly 'off the record'.
Get real guys, and lets all try and bat for the same team.
This whole topic that has been aired many many times before is further testimony that many others do too.
'Let's face it, there will always be a few individuals who will insist on finding someone else to blame for their own inadequacies - luckily, it's a tiny minority.' -
This is an insulting comment, bordering on the rubish issued by that ronch bloke, but even acording to FCL, it's not a minority, although that comment made to me was naturaly 'off the record'.
Get real guys, and lets all try and bat for the same team.
Guest
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So what would you like the CAA to do? Extend the deadline indefinately until everyone who ever had a trial lesson prior to 1999 has the chance to complete their training under the old rules? It's not practical. Aviation is a fast moving business and you can't expect them to not change the rules simply because you're not in the loop anymore.
For your information, I had started studying for the CAA ATPL's, and got about a third of the way through the distance learning course. Due to other commitments I could not continue and subsequently decided not to carry on with the CAA exams, because I did not want to be struggling to meet the deadline. However I accept that due to the massive changes taking place, I cannot expect to have my own way.
For your information, I had started studying for the CAA ATPL's, and got about a third of the way through the distance learning course. Due to other commitments I could not continue and subsequently decided not to carry on with the CAA exams, because I did not want to be struggling to meet the deadline. However I accept that due to the massive changes taking place, I cannot expect to have my own way.
Guest
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THTF
That explains a few things.
I don't have a problem with things changing, but the deadline ONLY affects those 'in the system', and they are the ones who are having privaleges removed.
fyi, I've had a CPL for 10 years now, and due to personal reasons have not done anything with it.
When I first took the CPL exams, one could get an IR then 737 etc type rating.
By the time I had the hours (700) to change from BCPL to CPL (a matter of 2 years), I needed human performance (no problem, only ever failed one exam), but the CPL was now not good enough for a type rating.
The exam deadline is no problem to me as I've now passed all the ATPL exams, but I none the less see no reason why those in the system needed to be subject to the deadline. Close the door to newcommers fine, but at least you have a choice when you start.
That's what I object to.
That explains a few things.
I don't have a problem with things changing, but the deadline ONLY affects those 'in the system', and they are the ones who are having privaleges removed.
fyi, I've had a CPL for 10 years now, and due to personal reasons have not done anything with it.
When I first took the CPL exams, one could get an IR then 737 etc type rating.
By the time I had the hours (700) to change from BCPL to CPL (a matter of 2 years), I needed human performance (no problem, only ever failed one exam), but the CPL was now not good enough for a type rating.
The exam deadline is no problem to me as I've now passed all the ATPL exams, but I none the less see no reason why those in the system needed to be subject to the deadline. Close the door to newcommers fine, but at least you have a choice when you start.
That's what I object to.
Guest
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If you accept that we are in the EU
That the CAA were told to adopt JAR
That JAR requires JAR exams
That a cutover period is required to JAR
Then logically there has to be a bite the
bullet point
This has been well publicised..
The CAA can do no more..?
That the CAA were told to adopt JAR
That JAR requires JAR exams
That a cutover period is required to JAR
Then logically there has to be a bite the
bullet point
This has been well publicised..
The CAA can do no more..?
Guest
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I also agree with THTF.
I don't agree with anything JAA, but if that is the way that the CAA are going then we have to get on with it.
I have certainly known about the changes/deadlines for a long long time and although I have sympathy with people who have spent lots of money and worked damned hard to get partial nationals, I do feel that plenty of notice has been given.
[This message has been edited by You Aint Seen Me. Roit! (edited 10 May 2001).]
I don't agree with anything JAA, but if that is the way that the CAA are going then we have to get on with it.
I have certainly known about the changes/deadlines for a long long time and although I have sympathy with people who have spent lots of money and worked damned hard to get partial nationals, I do feel that plenty of notice has been given.
[This message has been edited by You Aint Seen Me. Roit! (edited 10 May 2001).]
Guest
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Maybe I'm missing the point here but........
Concerning the harmonisation JAA/JAR and expiry of national rules and regulations, What has this actually done for UK based aviation/pilots? How many pilots/engineers do other european countries now employ as a direct result? How many people have gone to europe, bought an aeroplane and are now flying european registered aeroplanes in the UK, how much has all this benefited the flying community in the UK and how much extra has it cost it?
How many european/international pilots are now flying UK registered aeroplanes (sorry, aircraft) Check the stats....
Tables have turned chaps, once was a time when you needed a good command of the English language. Now it's european English (whatever that is) As of this time, English is still the aviation base which once gave those with the language the advantage, but now then; hands and up all those who what to learn French/German/Italian to be able to take advantage of our free community, coz you most likely won't get a job in europe (outside of the UK) without at least one other tongue.
Sold down the river again. Doh!!
Can’t wait for the euro!!
Concerning the harmonisation JAA/JAR and expiry of national rules and regulations, What has this actually done for UK based aviation/pilots? How many pilots/engineers do other european countries now employ as a direct result? How many people have gone to europe, bought an aeroplane and are now flying european registered aeroplanes in the UK, how much has all this benefited the flying community in the UK and how much extra has it cost it?
How many european/international pilots are now flying UK registered aeroplanes (sorry, aircraft) Check the stats....
Tables have turned chaps, once was a time when you needed a good command of the English language. Now it's european English (whatever that is) As of this time, English is still the aviation base which once gave those with the language the advantage, but now then; hands and up all those who what to learn French/German/Italian to be able to take advantage of our free community, coz you most likely won't get a job in europe (outside of the UK) without at least one other tongue.
Sold down the river again. Doh!!
Can’t wait for the euro!!
Guest
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Bailed out
It's all about politics - Europeans
trying to get one over on the Americans
It has NOTHING to do with
SAFETY (The CAA & FAA have a good record)
COST (Its more expensive)
MOBILITY OF FLIGHT CREW (restricts ICAO)
DEMOCRACY (Nobody voted for it nobody wants it nobody needs it)
It's all about politics - Europeans
trying to get one over on the Americans
It has NOTHING to do with
SAFETY (The CAA & FAA have a good record)
COST (Its more expensive)
MOBILITY OF FLIGHT CREW (restricts ICAO)
DEMOCRACY (Nobody voted for it nobody wants it nobody needs it)
Guest
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Ja- It's obvious you are very wound up about the whole thing, I can't blame you at all, but, the 'old system' is comming to an end, and from the point of JAA students, far to late, CAA people sliping in thought the back door when the JAR ATPLs where first introduced really gave the CAA the ability to say, don't worry the pilot supply system is still going.
sure, if the CAA got there fingers out they should have mailed everone concerned, but we all know the 'workings' of the CAA.
Whilst it is a very significant issue to a small minority, "bitching about a wind up merchant" will have just as much effect on whats going to happen than all the people still needing to sit the CAA exams crying out in horror.
There is a massive change in the Licensing system. It has been widely acknowleged for a long period, people will be caught out, but its not like they werent told. Sorry but thats the way it is.
All the Best with the resits BTW.
sure, if the CAA got there fingers out they should have mailed everone concerned, but we all know the 'workings' of the CAA.
Whilst it is a very significant issue to a small minority, "bitching about a wind up merchant" will have just as much effect on whats going to happen than all the people still needing to sit the CAA exams crying out in horror.
There is a massive change in the Licensing system. It has been widely acknowleged for a long period, people will be caught out, but its not like they werent told. Sorry but thats the way it is.
All the Best with the resits BTW.
