the full-time job/study route
Guest
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the full-time job/study route
Hi guys,
I will be starting the PPL pretty soon, while keeping my current full-time job. My intention is then to go on and study for the CPL/IR, and no doubt I will have to keep said job to try to finance this.
I reckon this will probably take 2 to 2.5 years, maybe even three years. I am in Ireland, where at present we do not not have a JAR-approved FTO for the CPL, though I think we will by October. The CPL can still be done however.
My questions are:
a) is two to three years a realistic time frame for what needs to done, given a modicum of motivation (!)?
b) what have been others' experiences with working full time and studying full time as well? I believe it can be done; how are you guys getting on, or how did you get on?
c) Is block-building hours in the States the best way towards getting the 150 hours needed, while studying the theory at home?
d) ...and finally!! What is the deal with the CAA exams and the JAA ATPL exams? The same or differnt, and if different, why??!!
Actually, one last question as I'm here! I know this has been done to death, but could someone please provide the names of airlines in the UK doing sponsorships (besides our personal favourite)?
I have Air 2000, Airtours, Cabair...anyone else?
All feedback greatly appreciated folks!
WD
[This message has been edited by wunala dreaming (edited 08 May 2001).]
I will be starting the PPL pretty soon, while keeping my current full-time job. My intention is then to go on and study for the CPL/IR, and no doubt I will have to keep said job to try to finance this.
I reckon this will probably take 2 to 2.5 years, maybe even three years. I am in Ireland, where at present we do not not have a JAR-approved FTO for the CPL, though I think we will by October. The CPL can still be done however.
My questions are:
a) is two to three years a realistic time frame for what needs to done, given a modicum of motivation (!)?
b) what have been others' experiences with working full time and studying full time as well? I believe it can be done; how are you guys getting on, or how did you get on?
c) Is block-building hours in the States the best way towards getting the 150 hours needed, while studying the theory at home?
d) ...and finally!! What is the deal with the CAA exams and the JAA ATPL exams? The same or differnt, and if different, why??!!
Actually, one last question as I'm here! I know this has been done to death, but could someone please provide the names of airlines in the UK doing sponsorships (besides our personal favourite)?
I have Air 2000, Airtours, Cabair...anyone else?
All feedback greatly appreciated folks!
WD
[This message has been edited by wunala dreaming (edited 08 May 2001).]
Guest
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I am doing the Distance Learning thing while working full time. My immediate advice is to plan carefully. I work a full time job plus a part time one (which pays for an hours flying a week). I then have a set study timetable which I try to follow as much as possible. You will find it hard to stick to, no matter how motivated, especially when evryone else is off having fun and you've got to get your head round Air Law! I've found it difficult at times and sometimes I have to force myself to get back to the books. I use whatever spare time I have to read - lunch breaks at work, travelling even reading in the bath (ha ha). So planning is the key thing but keep telling yourself why you are doing it - it helps!
Re CAA verses JAA exams - the CAA system is coming to an end and you will have to go through the JAR system. If this is wrong someone please correct me.
Finally sponsorship - get a subscription to Flight International as opportunities are usually advertised in the back. Sorry no other ideas.......
Re CAA verses JAA exams - the CAA system is coming to an end and you will have to go through the JAR system. If this is wrong someone please correct me.
Finally sponsorship - get a subscription to Flight International as opportunities are usually advertised in the back. Sorry no other ideas.......
Guest
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Minor points here really and I know they cost money:
1. Get a decent "flightdeck" video - bung it in the machine whenever you feel a little low (I saw a fairly good Airtours one to Florida(not plugging it BTW)).
2. Try and get a receiver - list to the RT at your desk whilst studying!!
PFO
1. Get a decent "flightdeck" video - bung it in the machine whenever you feel a little low (I saw a fairly good Airtours one to Florida(not plugging it BTW)).
2. Try and get a receiver - list to the RT at your desk whilst studying!!
PFO
Guest
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Same boat as me. I did my PPL in October and i'm building hours at about 4 per month. I work full time(shifts) and part time to pay for flying and courses. Im with Bristol Groundschool. There package seems very good.
As for tips :
1. Check the school. I did 2 months of study before i went to Bristol. The package was garbage. I did however get my money back.
2. Plan a month at a time. I use MS office publisher and plan my month on the calender. You know then exactly how much time you can devote to studying. Most of all .....STICK TO IT.
3.When it gets you down you have got to recharge the batteries. I just go flying. It's my treat to me for working hard. Once i have flown the motivation is all back again
4.Don't be shy. Ask for help whenever you can. I got a maths tutor to make sure i know what i'm going on about. In the long run i'm sure it's worth it.
5.Have a day a week to yourself, and your family. No study. Just keeping the wife smiling and the kids. There supporting me. It's only fair to give them a little of your time
Thats it really Hope it helps.
I wish you all the best. God knows i know what your going through
As for tips :
1. Check the school. I did 2 months of study before i went to Bristol. The package was garbage. I did however get my money back.
2. Plan a month at a time. I use MS office publisher and plan my month on the calender. You know then exactly how much time you can devote to studying. Most of all .....STICK TO IT.
3.When it gets you down you have got to recharge the batteries. I just go flying. It's my treat to me for working hard. Once i have flown the motivation is all back again
4.Don't be shy. Ask for help whenever you can. I got a maths tutor to make sure i know what i'm going on about. In the long run i'm sure it's worth it.
5.Have a day a week to yourself, and your family. No study. Just keeping the wife smiling and the kids. There supporting me. It's only fair to give them a little of your time
Thats it really Hope it helps.
I wish you all the best. God knows i know what your going through
Guest
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The principle of working and getting the
fATPL is a good one
But it aint easy.. A lot depends upon your job .. if you can slope of for say 4-5 weeks
ocassionally it would be much easier
The exams and the CPL and particularly the
IR require 100% commitment and 2 week blocks
are insufficient, The JAA have in effect
restricted the number of job/study applicants
and many people fall by the wayside ..
Out of money .. Out of time ..
fATPL is a good one
But it aint easy.. A lot depends upon your job .. if you can slope of for say 4-5 weeks
ocassionally it would be much easier
The exams and the CPL and particularly the
IR require 100% commitment and 2 week blocks
are insufficient, The JAA have in effect
restricted the number of job/study applicants
and many people fall by the wayside ..
Out of money .. Out of time ..
Guest
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Avrodamo's advice is good.
I've just finished a year of distance learning and am awaiting the results for my techs. I passed all my Navs in October, first time.
1. As Avrodamo says, you must plan carefully. Work out how much time you have and when, find a quiet corner to be your study corner, never work for more than an hour without a break of at least 5 minutes, and take more substantial breaks every two hours.
2. Have an understanding other half/family/friends. My girlfriend and friends are behind me 100% - I told them last May what I was doing, and that they would have to have patience because I would basically drop out of social life for at long time (they already know that I'm a bit of a flying nut so it wasn't a great surprise).
3. Buy the standard textbooks for each subject . It's £20 per textbook and £37 per resit. Simple economics. I will have a set of cheap second hand ones shortly if you're interested (e-mail me). They're also handier than notes for reading away from your study corner. Which brings me to...
4. Work little and often. Got some spare time at work? On the train? Pick up that textbook and read a few more pages. Read through and memorize a few trial questions. Stood in the bus queue? Recite in your head some of the stuff that you've recently learned. Make a mental note to have another look at anything you've forgotten. That way the learning gets reinforced.
5. Again as Avrodamo says, reward yourself with treats aa you hit milestones. Take yourself flying when you finish a module. If you ever feel burned out or demotivated. Take time off immediately and reward yourself.
FINALLY don't forget to keep the champagne in the fridge ice for when you finish (there's a bottle chilling already for when my results come out , hopefully next week!)
I've just finished a year of distance learning and am awaiting the results for my techs. I passed all my Navs in October, first time.
1. As Avrodamo says, you must plan carefully. Work out how much time you have and when, find a quiet corner to be your study corner, never work for more than an hour without a break of at least 5 minutes, and take more substantial breaks every two hours.
2. Have an understanding other half/family/friends. My girlfriend and friends are behind me 100% - I told them last May what I was doing, and that they would have to have patience because I would basically drop out of social life for at long time (they already know that I'm a bit of a flying nut so it wasn't a great surprise).
3. Buy the standard textbooks for each subject . It's £20 per textbook and £37 per resit. Simple economics. I will have a set of cheap second hand ones shortly if you're interested (e-mail me). They're also handier than notes for reading away from your study corner. Which brings me to...
4. Work little and often. Got some spare time at work? On the train? Pick up that textbook and read a few more pages. Read through and memorize a few trial questions. Stood in the bus queue? Recite in your head some of the stuff that you've recently learned. Make a mental note to have another look at anything you've forgotten. That way the learning gets reinforced.
5. Again as Avrodamo says, reward yourself with treats aa you hit milestones. Take yourself flying when you finish a module. If you ever feel burned out or demotivated. Take time off immediately and reward yourself.
FINALLY don't forget to keep the champagne in the fridge ice for when you finish (there's a bottle chilling already for when my results come out , hopefully next week!)
Guest
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Guys,
thanks a lot for those replies, really useful stuff. Can't overstate the importance of getting a clear picture in my head of what to expect before I start this thing. And I can't help smiling at the irony of diving back into the books after six years in university!
OK, well I'll be planning carefully how I'm going to approach this, so I will no doubt be back to you guys with more questions. Best of luck with your own work in the meantime.
Cheers,
WD.
PS foghorn, will be mailing you re those books.
thanks a lot for those replies, really useful stuff. Can't overstate the importance of getting a clear picture in my head of what to expect before I start this thing. And I can't help smiling at the irony of diving back into the books after six years in university!
OK, well I'll be planning carefully how I'm going to approach this, so I will no doubt be back to you guys with more questions. Best of luck with your own work in the meantime.
Cheers,
WD.
PS foghorn, will be mailing you re those books.
Guest
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Some exxcellent points there and I feel the same at times why am I doing this nonsense. If you are planning to go the sponsored route. Companines like Cabair seem to me to be a complete rip off. I may well upset a few people here by saying that, but you must, must, must look at what they are realistically offering you. If it is part sponsorship, what is it you are paying for, does the economics pay,, reduced pay/ promotion, no earning, guarenteed job..(Try telling the miners dockers, soldiers) all thought that they had a job for life. Remember that you are only there to pay somebody elses wages. It may be good for the younger groups, but I suspect that you are slightly older than the rest, and like me you may have agood career, I am told that its all worth it in the end, but I dont want to be on a reduced salary for 2-5 years, be an under paid flying instructor or live in some flea pit at Oxford. Not everything is negative, I dont understand how a wing works so pity me.
Up and at'em.
Up and at'em.
Guest
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MMmmmmmmmm! I did it the self improver route. I know it's modular now but, I did a Cabair sponsorship. It may have been a 'Part - Sponsorship' but it gave me the following:
1.Continuity of training!(V.important for 1st time passes)
2.A Job! Over the 24 month contracted period the hours were large & salary good in summer, poor in winter due Wx.
3.The experience to go on to fly a 13 seat Turbo prop, then a 50 seater & now a 350 seat widebody jet!
I understand it may not be ideal for everybody, but it did work for me. It wasn't a rip off, just a bit like being back at school. But without the freedom!!
Cabair do 509 sponsorships also.
1.Continuity of training!(V.important for 1st time passes)
2.A Job! Over the 24 month contracted period the hours were large & salary good in summer, poor in winter due Wx.
3.The experience to go on to fly a 13 seat Turbo prop, then a 50 seater & now a 350 seat widebody jet!
I understand it may not be ideal for everybody, but it did work for me. It wasn't a rip off, just a bit like being back at school. But without the freedom!!
Cabair do 509 sponsorships also.
Guest
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3 years is a good timescale but it depends on what time off you can get at work. Also it may be worth asking about unpaid leave, even if its just one month.
I spent my hols either in the US flying (and you will be amazed at how many hours can be fitted into how little time) or on a pre-exam brush up course (well worth it if you've been self studying at home).
I agree with what people have said about planning but the main thing I would add is to say that you must be able to prioritise. When you are a month away from an exam or flight test or doing an intensive part of your training such as the IR you need to have NO distractions. NONE! You will have to ignore anything and everything that isn't directly related to the flying.
It can be difficult yes but its the main thing you need to do. I have seen the result of someone being distracted by things that don't matter.
So sort out things like paying of household bills, all that sort of thing, in advance. Clear the decks for the cramming.
By the way, it took me around 3-4 years to complete my CPL/IR whilst working full time, it took total dedication in both time and money, which can be very very hard, but I got a jet job straight after getting my licence, and when you are on your first day at work in a shiny jet it is sooooo worth it!
If you get fed up, come to Pprune for some motivation!
I spent my hols either in the US flying (and you will be amazed at how many hours can be fitted into how little time) or on a pre-exam brush up course (well worth it if you've been self studying at home).
I agree with what people have said about planning but the main thing I would add is to say that you must be able to prioritise. When you are a month away from an exam or flight test or doing an intensive part of your training such as the IR you need to have NO distractions. NONE! You will have to ignore anything and everything that isn't directly related to the flying.
It can be difficult yes but its the main thing you need to do. I have seen the result of someone being distracted by things that don't matter.
So sort out things like paying of household bills, all that sort of thing, in advance. Clear the decks for the cramming.
By the way, it took me around 3-4 years to complete my CPL/IR whilst working full time, it took total dedication in both time and money, which can be very very hard, but I got a jet job straight after getting my licence, and when you are on your first day at work in a shiny jet it is sooooo worth it!
If you get fed up, come to Pprune for some motivation!
