APP Scheme at Oxford
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APP Scheme at Oxford
Can anyone share any knowledge about the APP scheme that starts up at Oxford this year. i:e Pros and cons compared to a regular ab-initio course at the same school. What else do you get? Is the extra cost justified for what you recieve? Perhaps more importantly, will this course be any better recognised by the airlines?
Any input will be most welcome.
Any input will be most welcome.
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Hi Carl,
Sorry to jump into your post like this but...
What is the cost?
I've looked through the APP Section of the Oxford site and don't see any mention of pricing.
Regards,
B1.
Sorry to jump into your post like this but...
What is the cost?
I've looked through the APP Section of the Oxford site and don't see any mention of pricing.
Regards,
B1.
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I looked at this and decided that other than selection (with a conflict of interests for them!) it's a standard integrated course cloaked in lots of spin at an outragous price - £72,000 including accommodation. They can offer no substance to suggestions that it will increase your chances of employment ahead of any other school's integrated course (or decent modular training).
BAe has just as good a reputation and is something like £18,000 less.
If you've money to burn and cannot get sponsorship, go for it (or go to BAe and pay for a Ryanair type rating with the £18K).
BAe has just as good a reputation and is something like £18,000 less.
If you've money to burn and cannot get sponsorship, go for it (or go to BAe and pay for a Ryanair type rating with the £18K).
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I am currently a student at oxford and we have just been told about the APP course, as we will be the first ones to be put through it (I think!). It will involve lots more hours in the usa in the turbo arrows aircraft and you will be able to take advantage of the new sims when you arrive back, which I have to say are fantastic! (even though I have only seen photos!). Once you have completed the phase two ground school the flying will only be on the twin engined seneca aircraft which should help you obtain your IR at the first attempt.
I am not sure of the price of the course but i have heard that it is about 60K. This ammount is a lot compared to other schools but other schools are not OXFORD!! Lots of people put oxford down and say how bad it is! Well thay are the people who haven't been to Oxford and probably know nothing about it! It is an excellent place to go and the training is second to none! If you have the money then go to oxford and dont look any where else. I guarantee you will not be dissapointed.
Hope this may be of use to you?
regards
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Getting your IR at the first attempt is not the be all and end all.
My best mate failed 2 or 3 times. He got straight into a lovely turbo prop. I partialled mine and got straight in a 757.
It is more about luck and being in the right place at the right time.
I would keep the £18000 , because if there aint no jobs nowhere for low hours guys, it don't matter a jot what OATS tell you.
Good luck.
My best mate failed 2 or 3 times. He got straight into a lovely turbo prop. I partialled mine and got straight in a 757.
It is more about luck and being in the right place at the right time.
I would keep the £18000 , because if there aint no jobs nowhere for low hours guys, it don't matter a jot what OATS tell you.
Good luck.
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Ap220Oxford,
My understanding is that you have to go through a selection process (which is currently happening) before being taken onto an APP course (which first commences in March). I presume that since you are partly way through your integrated course, then you will have to 'upgrade' to the APP course?
The APP course sounds interesting, but to me, I think I would find that it devalues the integrated course, which is the jewel in Oxfords crown today. I would be extremely relunctant to go through their selection processes for the APP, be rejected (for whatever reason) and then go onto their integrated course. I would be a tarnished individual in both mine and their eyes.
By definition, they are saying that any contacts that are made to Oxford, the APP grads will be put forward, then the integrated individuals.
BAe tried it some years ago, and it didn't work.
I'm sure their branding manager has thought of these issues, and they have a suitable response?
The £72K includes accomodation, and the JOC course, plus time on their SIM. The actual basic course is the £60K, £7k more than the basic cost for the integrated one.
I'll be sticking to the integrated course: my finances can stretch to that. (Notwithstanding the fact that I couldn't make the application to the APP couse via their internet page due to some unknown technical error - there's a hidden message in there...).
My understanding is that you have to go through a selection process (which is currently happening) before being taken onto an APP course (which first commences in March). I presume that since you are partly way through your integrated course, then you will have to 'upgrade' to the APP course?
The APP course sounds interesting, but to me, I think I would find that it devalues the integrated course, which is the jewel in Oxfords crown today. I would be extremely relunctant to go through their selection processes for the APP, be rejected (for whatever reason) and then go onto their integrated course. I would be a tarnished individual in both mine and their eyes.
By definition, they are saying that any contacts that are made to Oxford, the APP grads will be put forward, then the integrated individuals.
BAe tried it some years ago, and it didn't work.
I'm sure their branding manager has thought of these issues, and they have a suitable response?
The £72K includes accomodation, and the JOC course, plus time on their SIM. The actual basic course is the £60K, £7k more than the basic cost for the integrated one.
I'll be sticking to the integrated course: my finances can stretch to that. (Notwithstanding the fact that I couldn't make the application to the APP couse via their internet page due to some unknown technical error - there's a hidden message in there...).
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Ap220oxford,
I've often stated on these forums that Oxford has a reputation as one of the best schools around, although they weren't quite what I was looking for so I haven't used them. However, it is attitudes like yours which cause a very small minority of people to:
Oxford is, as far as I can tell, a very good school. As are many of the others. Every school is different, and every student is different, and to suggest:
is stupid.
I don't know anything about the course, but if anyone is considering it, I'd suggest investigating it, comparing it to other similar courses on the market, and comparing to other options such as modular courses. Then, pick the one which is best for you.
Ap220oxford, I'm glad you've found a school which fits your needs so perfectly. I hope others are able to do the same. For many, this will mean going to Oxford. For others, myself included, it will mean going somewhere else.
FFF
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Other schools are not OXFORD!!
... put oxford down and say how bad it is!
If you have the money then go to oxford and dont look any where else
I don't know anything about the course, but if anyone is considering it, I'd suggest investigating it, comparing it to other similar courses on the market, and comparing to other options such as modular courses. Then, pick the one which is best for you.
Ap220oxford, I'm glad you've found a school which fits your needs so perfectly. I hope others are able to do the same. For many, this will mean going to Oxford. For others, myself included, it will mean going somewhere else.
FFF
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flying forum,
I must agree with you on how everyone is different in what they want to do. However I think your point about my attitude is a bit bellow the belt! I'm sure that people put oxford down due to the fact that it wasn't for them or for some other reason. May I ask why you didn't like oxford and why it wasn't for you? Also where are you attending now?
regards
I must agree with you on how everyone is different in what they want to do. However I think your point about my attitude is a bit bellow the belt! I'm sure that people put oxford down due to the fact that it wasn't for them or for some other reason. May I ask why you didn't like oxford and why it wasn't for you? Also where are you attending now?
regards
Why do it if it's not fun?
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App220,
I doubt that anyone puts Oxford down "due to the fact that it wasn't for them," - why single Oxford out when there are so many other schools which also weren't "for them"? The only reason I can find why some people put Oxford down is because a very small number of their students believe that Oxford is infinitely superior to all other schools, that every ATPL student and recruitment department must bow down to them, and that the world owes them a job because they went to Oxford. If you're not one of that small minority, then I apologise - but from your earlier post, it sounded as if you were.
Since you ask (and it's hardly a secret anyway - I've discussed it dozens of times on other threads), I'm currently doing distance learning with Bristol. Distance learning because I need to stay in full-time work in my current job in order to pay the bills. After looking at every school which offered a distance learning course, I narrowed it down to Oxford, LGU or Bristol. I initially included LGU in the shortlist because they offered a brush-up course which was half the length of the other schools', but ruled them out party because I felt that, if it were possible to do the brush-up properly in such a short space of time, other schools would offer that option too, and partly because LGU didn't have anything which made it stand out from the crowd apart from that one thing.
That left Bristol or Oxford. I would have been very happy with either, but chose Bristol over Oxford for a number of reasons: Their notes appeared, to me, to be better quality than Oxford (easier to understand and learn from), although not by much. They also stated, in their standard information package, that the quality of the notes is by far the most important thing - something which I agree with - and included a sample of their notes for that reason. (They were the only school to do this - others invited me to visit and look at notes, but didn't incldue a sample even when I asked for one, and certainly didn't include one as standard.) The third reason was the interactive CD - a lot of the material on the CD is very gimmicky, but there's some really useful stuff too. Oxford took a little longer to reply to my queries than almost every other school, which is a bad thing, particularly for distance learning. (I have since heard that their admin department have a bit of a reputation in this respect, which is not mirrored by their training... and I haven't heard that for a while, so maybe they've improved since then?) And finally, I had some recommendations for Bristol from people in the industry who I trust. In all these aspects, Oxford scored well, but Bristol scored better, for me.
From what I've seen (and I haven't investigated very thoroughly, because it's not an option that I would have been able to follow through), Oxford would have been my school of choice for a residential course. I'm currently looking at options for the CPL course, and even at the early stage of investigation, Oxford are already filtering through to the top of the list.
FFF
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I doubt that anyone puts Oxford down "due to the fact that it wasn't for them," - why single Oxford out when there are so many other schools which also weren't "for them"? The only reason I can find why some people put Oxford down is because a very small number of their students believe that Oxford is infinitely superior to all other schools, that every ATPL student and recruitment department must bow down to them, and that the world owes them a job because they went to Oxford. If you're not one of that small minority, then I apologise - but from your earlier post, it sounded as if you were.
Since you ask (and it's hardly a secret anyway - I've discussed it dozens of times on other threads), I'm currently doing distance learning with Bristol. Distance learning because I need to stay in full-time work in my current job in order to pay the bills. After looking at every school which offered a distance learning course, I narrowed it down to Oxford, LGU or Bristol. I initially included LGU in the shortlist because they offered a brush-up course which was half the length of the other schools', but ruled them out party because I felt that, if it were possible to do the brush-up properly in such a short space of time, other schools would offer that option too, and partly because LGU didn't have anything which made it stand out from the crowd apart from that one thing.
That left Bristol or Oxford. I would have been very happy with either, but chose Bristol over Oxford for a number of reasons: Their notes appeared, to me, to be better quality than Oxford (easier to understand and learn from), although not by much. They also stated, in their standard information package, that the quality of the notes is by far the most important thing - something which I agree with - and included a sample of their notes for that reason. (They were the only school to do this - others invited me to visit and look at notes, but didn't incldue a sample even when I asked for one, and certainly didn't include one as standard.) The third reason was the interactive CD - a lot of the material on the CD is very gimmicky, but there's some really useful stuff too. Oxford took a little longer to reply to my queries than almost every other school, which is a bad thing, particularly for distance learning. (I have since heard that their admin department have a bit of a reputation in this respect, which is not mirrored by their training... and I haven't heard that for a while, so maybe they've improved since then?) And finally, I had some recommendations for Bristol from people in the industry who I trust. In all these aspects, Oxford scored well, but Bristol scored better, for me.
From what I've seen (and I haven't investigated very thoroughly, because it's not an option that I would have been able to follow through), Oxford would have been my school of choice for a residential course. I'm currently looking at options for the CPL course, and even at the early stage of investigation, Oxford are already filtering through to the top of the list.
FFF
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fff
Thankyou very much for the insight into your training. It is good to look at what other people are doing. From what you have told me it does seem that the best course for you is at bristol and i hope you do very well there. I have been very fortunate that i am able to take advantage of the full time coures, unlike yourself. Oxford does not belive that they are superior, believe me! I think its more to do with several airlines choosing to send their students there and other companies recruiting from us at the momment. This all adds up to people wanting to attend.
I hope that your studies go well.
regards
ap220
Thankyou very much for the insight into your training. It is good to look at what other people are doing. From what you have told me it does seem that the best course for you is at bristol and i hope you do very well there. I have been very fortunate that i am able to take advantage of the full time coures, unlike yourself. Oxford does not belive that they are superior, believe me! I think its more to do with several airlines choosing to send their students there and other companies recruiting from us at the momment. This all adds up to people wanting to attend.
I hope that your studies go well.
regards
ap220
Why do it if it's not fun?
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I hope that your studies go well
I think its more to do with several airlines choosing to send their students there
I wonder if Carl has decided what to do yet?
FFF
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AP220Oxford,
Good luck in your phase 1 ground school exams, if you haven't completed them already. I remember feeling great about Oxford like you, but that was before I went to their 'fair-weather-base' in Tyler, Texas. I am beginning to entertain the thought more and more that really, the only thing that OAT excells in is their groundschool. The facilities are brilliant and they have first-class ground instructors. I am at OAT because I want to get my fATPL from arguably the best flight school in Europe with first-time passes. My cousin went to Cabair a couple of years ago and had a miserable time with laughable ground school and he has really suffered. Of course it is up to each individual to achieve on their own but having the resources there is key.
As for the fwb in Tyler, you will have fun but it will be very tight for any of your group to finish on time, in the 12 week schedule. My group went out on Sep 30th and we still have guys trying to complete the syllabus of 96 hours. Our phase 2 groundschool has been delayed. OAT have apologised for bad weather that they are not accountable for however the student-instructor ratio of 3:1 was never achieved for anyone. They've got nowhere enough instructors and there is a shortage of aircraft too. Having only one flight a day because your instructor has too many students is common. My group only had 13 in it. Imagine what it will be like for your group, which I believe is a lot larger. Oh yeah, remember that nice day-trip they mention in the brochure? Well guess what?
The instructors are great and very hard working. You will have fun and achieve everything you work hard for out there.
Good luck in your phase 1 ground school exams, if you haven't completed them already. I remember feeling great about Oxford like you, but that was before I went to their 'fair-weather-base' in Tyler, Texas. I am beginning to entertain the thought more and more that really, the only thing that OAT excells in is their groundschool. The facilities are brilliant and they have first-class ground instructors. I am at OAT because I want to get my fATPL from arguably the best flight school in Europe with first-time passes. My cousin went to Cabair a couple of years ago and had a miserable time with laughable ground school and he has really suffered. Of course it is up to each individual to achieve on their own but having the resources there is key.
As for the fwb in Tyler, you will have fun but it will be very tight for any of your group to finish on time, in the 12 week schedule. My group went out on Sep 30th and we still have guys trying to complete the syllabus of 96 hours. Our phase 2 groundschool has been delayed. OAT have apologised for bad weather that they are not accountable for however the student-instructor ratio of 3:1 was never achieved for anyone. They've got nowhere enough instructors and there is a shortage of aircraft too. Having only one flight a day because your instructor has too many students is common. My group only had 13 in it. Imagine what it will be like for your group, which I believe is a lot larger. Oh yeah, remember that nice day-trip they mention in the brochure? Well guess what?
The instructors are great and very hard working. You will have fun and achieve everything you work hard for out there.
