Hours to solo. Is there an age trend?
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,503
Likes: 1,845
From: England
At age 16 I went solo and my dusty old logbook says I had 7hrs 50mins at that time.
At 17 I went on to complete an RAF Flying Schol which was three weeks long. I added 10hrs to get a PPL the week after in min hours.
I think in general and with wide variation it is preferable to be younger and train more intensively if you can.
This thread really shouldn't be taken as a willy measuring competition. As an instructor I have sent weaker students earlier than stronger ones for all kinds of reason including weather, my worktime utilisation, particular aircraft availability, confidence/morale issues, team building etc. etc.
Good luck one and all,
WWW
At 17 I went on to complete an RAF Flying Schol which was three weeks long. I added 10hrs to get a PPL the week after in min hours.
I think in general and with wide variation it is preferable to be younger and train more intensively if you can.
This thread really shouldn't be taken as a willy measuring competition. As an instructor I have sent weaker students earlier than stronger ones for all kinds of reason including weather, my worktime utilisation, particular aircraft availability, confidence/morale issues, team building etc. etc.
Good luck one and all,
WWW
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
Likes: 2
From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Very well put WWW. Though actually I had no intention of joining in a willy measuring competition. 
.
But seriously, I've always felt that far too much is made of first solo. Yes, it is exciting for the student (most of them; I was just glad to finally get it done). Yes, it proves you can fly, just. But beyond that it really means very little.
I too thought for ages I held the world record for hours to first solo. When I finally stopped caring, stopped keeping it secret, and started telling people, I discovered this huge variation. The main difference was that the people who soloed in under 10 hours would tell the world; those who took over 30 kept it quiet. Maybe we should form a 30+-hours-to-solo group.
. But seriously, I've always felt that far too much is made of first solo. Yes, it is exciting for the student (most of them; I was just glad to finally get it done). Yes, it proves you can fly, just. But beyond that it really means very little.
I too thought for ages I held the world record for hours to first solo. When I finally stopped caring, stopped keeping it secret, and started telling people, I discovered this huge variation. The main difference was that the people who soloed in under 10 hours would tell the world; those who took over 30 kept it quiet. Maybe we should form a 30+-hours-to-solo group.
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 205
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From: London
Tiger moth
As an instructor I have to say that you are being taken for a ride.
There is no way that you can be instructed PROPERLY and cover excercises 3 to 9 with all the associated part a's and b's etc in 3 hours.
when you do slow fligh and stalling it should be 1-1.5hrs at least just to make sure you understand the full implications of a stall at low level in a turn ie base and finals.
Your instructor is being very unprofessional and potentially a killer of an inexperienced pilot.
What you learn at this stage stays with you forever and if you want to go onto the airlines will show up very quickly at sim test stage.
The earliest for cadets on an intergrated course when I did mine was about 10 hours (I did mine just over 10) but we covered everything properly and to a set standard.
I suggest you look at your log book and see if you have covered all the lessons properly as JAR requires and if not ask your instructor to explain himself.
BTW I have taken on students who have been thrown into the circuit in about 3-4 hours and have had to retrain them from the beginning and make sure you get your ground briefs.
Good luck
As an instructor I have to say that you are being taken for a ride.
There is no way that you can be instructed PROPERLY and cover excercises 3 to 9 with all the associated part a's and b's etc in 3 hours.
when you do slow fligh and stalling it should be 1-1.5hrs at least just to make sure you understand the full implications of a stall at low level in a turn ie base and finals.
Your instructor is being very unprofessional and potentially a killer of an inexperienced pilot.
What you learn at this stage stays with you forever and if you want to go onto the airlines will show up very quickly at sim test stage.
The earliest for cadets on an intergrated course when I did mine was about 10 hours (I did mine just over 10) but we covered everything properly and to a set standard.
I suggest you look at your log book and see if you have covered all the lessons properly as JAR requires and if not ask your instructor to explain himself.
BTW I have taken on students who have been thrown into the circuit in about 3-4 hours and have had to retrain them from the beginning and make sure you get your ground briefs.
Good luck
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 139
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From: UK
Is it not the case that students learn alot from flying solo? I know that I did. It certainly focuses the mind when you realise that it is all down to you.
I don't understand why people need to learn the majority of the PPL course before being allowed to go solo? Is it not a question of them being safe to fly the circuit and deal with certain abnormal circumstances should they arise? How can this take 50 hrs?
Of course there are circumstances that make each PPL different ie weather, instructor, time, student ability etc etc. However, I can't help thinking that if individuals are not going solo after a reasonable number of hours then they are being milked like any cash cow. There must be an element of this and it's a disgrace at approximately £100 per hour.
It probably says more about the flying school or instructor than the student.
Surely it is similar to learning to drive. Get the basics in place, make the student safe, pass the test, then in reality learn how to drive when you have your licence.
Regards
I don't understand why people need to learn the majority of the PPL course before being allowed to go solo? Is it not a question of them being safe to fly the circuit and deal with certain abnormal circumstances should they arise? How can this take 50 hrs?
Of course there are circumstances that make each PPL different ie weather, instructor, time, student ability etc etc. However, I can't help thinking that if individuals are not going solo after a reasonable number of hours then they are being milked like any cash cow. There must be an element of this and it's a disgrace at approximately £100 per hour.
It probably says more about the flying school or instructor than the student.
Surely it is similar to learning to drive. Get the basics in place, make the student safe, pass the test, then in reality learn how to drive when you have your licence.
Regards
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,689
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From: England
I was a foot taller after my first solo - did anyone else experience this quick spurt of growth? I also had shakes that would put Ozzy Osbourne in the shade!
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18
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From: Dublin, Ireland
Aged 49 and first solo at 32 hours (mind you had 10 hours of club trips (Luxembourg, Isle of Wight and Jersey included in that) - passed GFT at around 70 hours and now have 140 hours in the books with 40 hours solo, but 20 hours of that 140 hours was a 20 hour night and IMC in the states. Work it out for yourself, now off to do a full instrument rating as flying in Ireland can't use my IMC here - I do know one thing I don't think age has a particular significance, but consistency of flying does, I did my night and MC at Ormonde Beach Aviation and there were plenty of UK guys who were there for a full 3 week course and when you fly consistently every day I know it makes a difference - the CFI there (Adrian from memory) was a real stickler and had no problems in failing anyone who didn't come upto scratch and although basically you were left on your own, the whole atmosphere of nothing but flying certainly does help.
God I hate Air Law and here I am doing it for a third time as it's covered in PPL IMC and IR.
ps: don't you just love this site it's soooo addictive!
God I hate Air Law and here I am doing it for a third time as it's covered in PPL IMC and IR.
ps: don't you just love this site it's soooo addictive!
Rainbow Chaser
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 608
Likes: 0
From: At home, mostly!
I first solo-ed at age 31 and after 21hrs! My landing was almost the best I have ever done - a real "kiss down". It couldn't have been a more perfect moment, the sky was blue, the sun shining, no sheep on the runway (yes I learned at a grass strip!) and over the radio came many voices congratulating me! It was the best, happiest, most exhilarating experience!
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: The Milky Way
14 hours to solo
48 hours to licence ( old caa licence )
1996
age 27
@ southampton
In AA5A G-OMOG it was a Blast and
was Relieved to be free at last!!
Cubby..
[ 19 August 2001: Message edited by: cubby ]
48 hours to licence ( old caa licence )
1996
age 27
@ southampton
In AA5A G-OMOG it was a Blast and
was Relieved to be free at last!!
Cubby..
[ 19 August 2001: Message edited by: cubby ]
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 47
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From: Oakland-California
As far as the CFI milking you for hours.
I had that impression when I did my Single Engine Commecial in Usa. The CFI merely said "thats not good enough..now do it again"
without pointing out my errors. I knew I were taken for a ride, but since I were almost done I just rode it out and got my lisence. It didnt cost me that much more, but it were a frustrating feeling.
And keeping someone for 50 hours before solo..well..depends on how frequent you fly.
If you fly once a month etc you lose alot of the touch and need to be retrained on what your last lesson were about. But..still 50 hours sounds like milking to me.
But looking at Part 61 in FAR (USA) there are are a certain manuvers you have to be proficient in and there is NO WAY it can be done in 4-6 hours. And by not getting your student proficient, your actually breaking the law.
As far as the student growing on the solo expirience. Sure..I remember when I soloed myself. I felt great achivement and my will to push myself harder increased. Ive seen the same on my students also. They improve alot after going solo.
But...if you havent trained your student sufficient, he/she might not get thru the solo expirience 100%. What if he/she faces a situation that werent presented earlier and he/she has no knowledge/skills to recover from that situation? Sometimes this will scare a student so much that the joy of flying is gone..or in worst case, the student dies.
Solo makes the student grow, but only if he/she survive.
I know this is a very cynical and grim way of expressing my thoughts, but Im just trying to prove a point. It might be extreme and a one in 10000, but when it happens, both you and the student wished that you had gone deeper into the training.
I had that impression when I did my Single Engine Commecial in Usa. The CFI merely said "thats not good enough..now do it again"
without pointing out my errors. I knew I were taken for a ride, but since I were almost done I just rode it out and got my lisence. It didnt cost me that much more, but it were a frustrating feeling.
And keeping someone for 50 hours before solo..well..depends on how frequent you fly.
If you fly once a month etc you lose alot of the touch and need to be retrained on what your last lesson were about. But..still 50 hours sounds like milking to me.
But looking at Part 61 in FAR (USA) there are are a certain manuvers you have to be proficient in and there is NO WAY it can be done in 4-6 hours. And by not getting your student proficient, your actually breaking the law.
As far as the student growing on the solo expirience. Sure..I remember when I soloed myself. I felt great achivement and my will to push myself harder increased. Ive seen the same on my students also. They improve alot after going solo.
But...if you havent trained your student sufficient, he/she might not get thru the solo expirience 100%. What if he/she faces a situation that werent presented earlier and he/she has no knowledge/skills to recover from that situation? Sometimes this will scare a student so much that the joy of flying is gone..or in worst case, the student dies.
Solo makes the student grow, but only if he/she survive.
I know this is a very cynical and grim way of expressing my thoughts, but Im just trying to prove a point. It might be extreme and a one in 10000, but when it happens, both you and the student wished that you had gone deeper into the training.
Flies for fun
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 789
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From: Wishing it was somewhere sunny!
At age 50 it took 23 hrs to solo and there can be few less determined than I. Learnt to drive at age 13 with 13 year old "instructor" (my school mate) passed driving test without further instruction at age 17. Age certainly has an effect on the learning process.
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: 'An Airfield Somewhere in England'
10 hours 6 mins at age 22. Finished PPL at about 44 hours (it was possible then). Did 69 hours total before chucking it in until I was 36. I was then on a CAP 509 course and went solo again after just over 4 hours. That shows you that even with a 14 year break the 'riding a bike' bit is true. It all came flooding back.
Just out of interest, on that 509 course (that is a commercial pilot's course for those not in the know), we had a guy who had not gone solo after 25 hours. He was invited to withdraw himself from training, which he duly did. Hard rules you may say but I am only reporting what happened.
I have subsequently done a lot of instructing on singles and am now a Line Training Captain on turboprops. Never once have I asked, or indeed been asked, how long it took someone to go solo. What people are interested in is if you can do the job.
Just out of interest, on that 509 course (that is a commercial pilot's course for those not in the know), we had a guy who had not gone solo after 25 hours. He was invited to withdraw himself from training, which he duly did. Hard rules you may say but I am only reporting what happened.
I have subsequently done a lot of instructing on singles and am now a Line Training Captain on turboprops. Never once have I asked, or indeed been asked, how long it took someone to go solo. What people are interested in is if you can do the job.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 34
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From: Shoreham
I went solo last Saturday in 10.5 hours, aged 23 from Redhill. Did anybody else think that their first solo was the smoothest, most peaceful flight ever, or were you all wracked with nerves?
For those who think that I am just trying to act cool with a statement like that, let me tell you, I had real trouble maintaining control of my bodily functions, until I turned onto crosswind! Then, I was fine, no problems, and my best landing yet!
Maybe you settle down when you don't have an instructor's critical eye being cast over your every move?
G-BXWO
For those who think that I am just trying to act cool with a statement like that, let me tell you, I had real trouble maintaining control of my bodily functions, until I turned onto crosswind! Then, I was fine, no problems, and my best landing yet!
Maybe you settle down when you don't have an instructor's critical eye being cast over your every move?
G-BXWO
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
From: Warks
It's probably a combination of age and frequency of flying. I've been studying for PPL for over 2 years now! Currently at 37 hours, estimating PPL at around 50 hrs.
Anyway, went solo last July at 14hr 45mins (my club average is about 17 hrs), aged 24, having averaged about 1 hour per month up 'til then.
If I'd done it in a more intensive time-scale, without all the relearning each time I'm sure I could've done it quicker.
Anyway, went solo last July at 14hr 45mins (my club average is about 17 hrs), aged 24, having averaged about 1 hour per month up 'til then.
If I'd done it in a more intensive time-scale, without all the relearning each time I'm sure I could've done it quicker.