FLYBE Sponsorship and A Levels!
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2000
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From: Blighty
FLYBE Sponsorship and A Levels!
I need anyone who has applied to Cabair for Flybe sponsorship to help me with a little research!!!!!
As and when y'all get replies I would like to know what kinda A levels/ degree's y'all have, and I'll tell you why.
I applied last year and got refused at app form stage, which narked me a bit. I have d's in Economics English Lit and G.S, dropped out of Uni 'cos I discovered I didn't want to be a shrink and decided that I may be able to make a living doing something I enjoyed.
Flying is NOT a purely theoretical pursuit and requires a significant amount of very different skills to those needed to pass lots of A levels while discovering that the more you live the less you know, and what the hell am I learning about fiscal policy for?!!
Cabair are charging 50 quid a pop for stage 2, and although I understand the need to limit applicants, if they thought about it a bit they could come up with a pretty steady income from these tests.
Anyway, I was in two minds about applying again, and didn't in the end. Can anyone give feedback on results and qualies when they get 'em! Cheers
As and when y'all get replies I would like to know what kinda A levels/ degree's y'all have, and I'll tell you why.
I applied last year and got refused at app form stage, which narked me a bit. I have d's in Economics English Lit and G.S, dropped out of Uni 'cos I discovered I didn't want to be a shrink and decided that I may be able to make a living doing something I enjoyed.
Flying is NOT a purely theoretical pursuit and requires a significant amount of very different skills to those needed to pass lots of A levels while discovering that the more you live the less you know, and what the hell am I learning about fiscal policy for?!!
Cabair are charging 50 quid a pop for stage 2, and although I understand the need to limit applicants, if they thought about it a bit they could come up with a pretty steady income from these tests.
Anyway, I was in two minds about applying again, and didn't in the end. Can anyone give feedback on results and qualies when they get 'em! Cheers
Joined: May 2000
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From: UK
Hi crankcase. IMHO I think the main reason they're looking for good A level results is because they want to minimise the risk of you flunking the ATPLs.
As you may well know, these schemes are run on a cut-throat budget where having to do resits is frowned upon due to the extra cost and the extra time taken.
By selecting people who have a greater chance of passing the ATPLs first time they reduce the risk.
You're right about the flying part but let's face it, if you can drive a car you can learn to fly a plane in time, to some extent.
Besides, my ATPL studies tell me that 95% of the time the damn things on Autopilot anyway! Who needs flying skills?!
As you may well know, these schemes are run on a cut-throat budget where having to do resits is frowned upon due to the extra cost and the extra time taken.
By selecting people who have a greater chance of passing the ATPLs first time they reduce the risk.
You're right about the flying part but let's face it, if you can drive a car you can learn to fly a plane in time, to some extent.
Besides, my ATPL studies tell me that 95% of the time the damn things on Autopilot anyway! Who needs flying skills?!
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2000
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From: Blighty
Sagey, dun't say nufink about grades in the prospectus I received, and just as an aside an IQ of 132 (professionally tested) and high aptitudes for this kinda stuff (also professionally tested) is not reflected well by what I did as a confused 18 year old, and that was, I think my point. But anyway, I'm trying to establish whether or not I have even the slightest chance of getting to test stages at these things. Keep 'em coming!
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Not far from the airport
You got D's at A-Level?
You dropped out of uni?
You fancy flying now?
You're wanting an airline to spend 50k+ and make you ambassador of their company?
An airline pilot is still a very high-profile occupation that requires a great deal of hard work and effort - (a lot harder than a three/four year stint at uni)
On paper you don't reflect the type of person that is prepared to stick it out and put in the hard work.
If you make it as a pilot before I do - then I may be tempted to shoot myself.
Oh, and for your records, 3 A-Levels, Eng Lang, Physics, Maths - BBC - currently in year 3 of 4 of computing degree, cruising for the 2:1 - working my socks off to get a 1st.
Cheers.
You dropped out of uni?
You fancy flying now?
You're wanting an airline to spend 50k+ and make you ambassador of their company?
An airline pilot is still a very high-profile occupation that requires a great deal of hard work and effort - (a lot harder than a three/four year stint at uni)
On paper you don't reflect the type of person that is prepared to stick it out and put in the hard work.
If you make it as a pilot before I do - then I may be tempted to shoot myself.
Oh, and for your records, 3 A-Levels, Eng Lang, Physics, Maths - BBC - currently in year 3 of 4 of computing degree, cruising for the 2:1 - working my socks off to get a 1st.
Cheers.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 359
Likes: 10
From: London
It does indeed only say 2 A level passes.
Although most sponsorships the minimum requirement is 2 grade c passes at A level. Most people that apply do have a first degree!.
We have a tendancy to express ourselves on Pprune more than we can on application forms, ie you put in your IQ, that doesn't go on the form.
Look at it from someone that spends 2 days going through forms, they probably have a list of criteria to meet, and if you don't meet say the academic requirements then they will just bin the form.
Lots of application forms say write in black ink, any other colour gets binned. Just a way of reducing numbers!
Sagey
Although most sponsorships the minimum requirement is 2 grade c passes at A level. Most people that apply do have a first degree!.
We have a tendancy to express ourselves on Pprune more than we can on application forms, ie you put in your IQ, that doesn't go on the form.
Look at it from someone that spends 2 days going through forms, they probably have a list of criteria to meet, and if you don't meet say the academic requirements then they will just bin the form.
Lots of application forms say write in black ink, any other colour gets binned. Just a way of reducing numbers!
Sagey
Joined: May 2002
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From: DXB
Wise words from Sagey,
Often this is why they put your academic qualifications on the first page of the form, so that if you do not meet them they do not need to read the rest because demand is so high.
That is just the way it is (most of the time)
Often this is why they put your academic qualifications on the first page of the form, so that if you do not meet them they do not need to read the rest because demand is so high.
That is just the way it is (most of the time)
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 12
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From: Blighty
boeing 7117;
Predicted AAB geog, eng lit & economics, offer from Birmingham to do psychology, then people in my life started dying........ which alters ones perspective a bit. 4 years working my arse off in a bar/restaurant, achieved promotion every year until I ran the place. Working 80hrs a week prevented me from progressing with ATPL training so took a pay cut and demotion to work ground ops at an airport, see what its all about. Effort? Talk to me when you graduate!
I used to be judgemental too! There are lots of IT chat rooms for you to go to if you want to get personal, I am simply tring to get the best idea I can of how the next few years are likely to pan out, and I doubt very much whether it will involve any one elses help.
Predicted AAB geog, eng lit & economics, offer from Birmingham to do psychology, then people in my life started dying........ which alters ones perspective a bit. 4 years working my arse off in a bar/restaurant, achieved promotion every year until I ran the place. Working 80hrs a week prevented me from progressing with ATPL training so took a pay cut and demotion to work ground ops at an airport, see what its all about. Effort? Talk to me when you graduate!
I used to be judgemental too! There are lots of IT chat rooms for you to go to if you want to get personal, I am simply tring to get the best idea I can of how the next few years are likely to pan out, and I doubt very much whether it will involve any one elses help.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 12
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From: Blighty
Yeah, this ain't Oprah, and I dont feel sorry for myself, far from it! My years in restaurants have taught me a plethora of skills not taught in any school, college or uni, as well as good people skills, team dynamics, logistical control, and the ability to get things done whatever the cost. And I enoyed the job far more than studying for a degree I would likely never utilise.My objective in revealing some details about myself was to illustrate that you can't judge a book by its cover, and people shouldn't.
Organisations such as NATS and the RAF etc do not place such a weighting on academics as an assesment of a persons strenghts and weaknesses, with good reason. They have a long history of research, results and experience that indicates that good academics does not a good employee make! If you wants to try telling me that an ATCO or a military pilot is a less demanding role than being a Civvy pilot, then go ahead, but I and many others would disagree.
NOW FOR THE LAST TIME I am trying to ascertain what is demanded of applicants in order to be given a chance at demonstrating capability and motivation to best understand what I can and can't do to progress in this particular world. Nothing more, nothing less; so if you have made it to any stage of sponsorship selection, I would very much like to hear what they required in order to keep your app form out of the bin!
Organisations such as NATS and the RAF etc do not place such a weighting on academics as an assesment of a persons strenghts and weaknesses, with good reason. They have a long history of research, results and experience that indicates that good academics does not a good employee make! If you wants to try telling me that an ATCO or a military pilot is a less demanding role than being a Civvy pilot, then go ahead, but I and many others would disagree.
NOW FOR THE LAST TIME I am trying to ascertain what is demanded of applicants in order to be given a chance at demonstrating capability and motivation to best understand what I can and can't do to progress in this particular world. Nothing more, nothing less; so if you have made it to any stage of sponsorship selection, I would very much like to hear what they required in order to keep your app form out of the bin!
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 359
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From: London
Not too sure I like the competitive and the "I deserve it" more than you tone this thread has taken.
Sponsorships are highly competitive and as I have said before 2 C's at A level seem to be the minimum requirements (don't know why, but it seems the norm). That doesn't necessarily mean that someone with 25 A's, a PHD in nuclear warfare deserves a sponsorship more than someone with 2 C's at A level. Airlines don't sponsor to help the "deserved" get a flying job. Certain individuals meet certain airline criteria, not all want the same personalities and in fact most probably want a mixture of personalities.
Now I doubt sponsorships always pick the ideal candidate, or those with the greatest flying aptitude, however they do pick candidates with a high chance of success in their studies, who impressed the airline suitably for them to be offered the position, as the airline feels they will one day have the ability to command their aircraft.
What we can't do IMO is have individuals saying I deserve it more, I worked harder than you did. Or I have x,y,z but not a,b,c it is so unfair why do they reject me.
As always wish you all well in taking those steps up the ladder to gain the job of your dreams.
Sagey
Sponsorships are highly competitive and as I have said before 2 C's at A level seem to be the minimum requirements (don't know why, but it seems the norm). That doesn't necessarily mean that someone with 25 A's, a PHD in nuclear warfare deserves a sponsorship more than someone with 2 C's at A level. Airlines don't sponsor to help the "deserved" get a flying job. Certain individuals meet certain airline criteria, not all want the same personalities and in fact most probably want a mixture of personalities.
Now I doubt sponsorships always pick the ideal candidate, or those with the greatest flying aptitude, however they do pick candidates with a high chance of success in their studies, who impressed the airline suitably for them to be offered the position, as the airline feels they will one day have the ability to command their aircraft.
What we can't do IMO is have individuals saying I deserve it more, I worked harder than you did. Or I have x,y,z but not a,b,c it is so unfair why do they reject me.
As always wish you all well in taking those steps up the ladder to gain the job of your dreams.
Sagey
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 12
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From: Blighty
Aight!, so if I were to do well at ATPL theory, would this make a difference, or would people still judge my performance at A Level as being my "norm", cos thats what I am trying to correct. The thing is, its not neccesarily sponsorship that I'm after, but it provides an indicator of employers views and attitudes which is why I do not write myself off, its good practice for 'ron
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 359
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From: London
Crank from what I can remember
Airlines generally prefer little flying experience, ie you have had a go, not picked up too many bad habits. It is rare for those with CPL, half way through ATPL exams to be accepted (don't know why TBH, I might be totally wrong there)
BA 2 C's at A level (not including General Studies) and/or a degree with 2:2. You need one or the other, I know people that have been invited to interview with above 2 C's at A level but left Uni early etc.
BMI 2 C's at A level pref in Science subject + Maths. Degree Pref
Air2000 2 C's at A level pref in Science Subject + Maths. Degree Pref
Britannia: 2 out of the following A levels Grade C and above. Maths, Biology, Physics, Economics, Chemistry. Degree in 1 of the 4 subject pref
Flybe: says 2 A level passes pref in Science Subjects, I think it considers C's as passes though.
Military just need A levels
Once you have a license most airlines wouldn't give a damn about A levels, you have proven that you meet the academic standard for flying.
Hope that helps
Sagey
Airlines generally prefer little flying experience, ie you have had a go, not picked up too many bad habits. It is rare for those with CPL, half way through ATPL exams to be accepted (don't know why TBH, I might be totally wrong there)
BA 2 C's at A level (not including General Studies) and/or a degree with 2:2. You need one or the other, I know people that have been invited to interview with above 2 C's at A level but left Uni early etc.
BMI 2 C's at A level pref in Science subject + Maths. Degree Pref
Air2000 2 C's at A level pref in Science Subject + Maths. Degree Pref
Britannia: 2 out of the following A levels Grade C and above. Maths, Biology, Physics, Economics, Chemistry. Degree in 1 of the 4 subject pref
Flybe: says 2 A level passes pref in Science Subjects, I think it considers C's as passes though.
Military just need A levels
Once you have a license most airlines wouldn't give a damn about A levels, you have proven that you meet the academic standard for flying.
Hope that helps
Sagey
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 75
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From: Scotland
Crankcase,
I think in your case doing well in ATPL theory is what you should set as a goal.
Forget about those A-Level results, and the perceived disparity between crap D results and this 132IQ thing.
I got tested at when at Uni, scored 128. Got tested recently, knowing that my mental functioning has certainly deteriorated to, oh, about the level of a village idiot, and I scored 130.
I know that can't be quite right. No nice way to say this but you have to face up to it:
You ****ed your A levels. That in turn has seriously affected initial impressions of people in recruitment, who have the paper bin sitting hungrily by their side.
You are obviously bright enough. I get the impression from reading this thread that the critical factor is motivation.
If you keep yourself highly motivated, chances are you will put the effort in and perform as you know you can.
Best of luck with the ATPL's.
JH
I think in your case doing well in ATPL theory is what you should set as a goal.
Forget about those A-Level results, and the perceived disparity between crap D results and this 132IQ thing.
I got tested at when at Uni, scored 128. Got tested recently, knowing that my mental functioning has certainly deteriorated to, oh, about the level of a village idiot, and I scored 130.
I know that can't be quite right. No nice way to say this but you have to face up to it:
You ****ed your A levels. That in turn has seriously affected initial impressions of people in recruitment, who have the paper bin sitting hungrily by their side.
You are obviously bright enough. I get the impression from reading this thread that the critical factor is motivation.
If you keep yourself highly motivated, chances are you will put the effort in and perform as you know you can.
Best of luck with the ATPL's.
JH
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 154
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From: Not far from the airport
Crankster
This is the first time I've read the post since yesterday and I feel I need to put a few things straight.
First of all, if you'd said in the first place people were dying all around you, I may not have been as quick to make the remark I did - however if you'd made it clear you left uni for that reason and not because, as you put it "didn't want to become a shrink" then maybe I'd have been more sympathetic.
Secondly, the degree thing. Why do airlines like 'em? (A) It shows that you have the ability to go out there and gain an education at a very independent level - therefore it can suggest a good level of determination and motivation. (B) It also shows that you can take your learning to a much broader level, i.e (you are someone who is quite intellectually malleable??)
To say that you "would never utilise" your degree is a load of rubbish. At which point do you think I would use my web design skills if I was flying a 737? It's not about what you've learned, it's about how you learn.
As mentioned above, the best thing you can do is get back on the motivation ladder and get back into some education programme whether it be A-levels, degree whatever. An airline would find this impressive - i.e. a guy that initially dropped everything but then picked themselves up and had another go (and was successful??)
Oh yeah, and, I had an IQ test at uni and scored 133. Can't see why ??!!!
This is the first time I've read the post since yesterday and I feel I need to put a few things straight.
First of all, if you'd said in the first place people were dying all around you, I may not have been as quick to make the remark I did - however if you'd made it clear you left uni for that reason and not because, as you put it "didn't want to become a shrink" then maybe I'd have been more sympathetic.
Secondly, the degree thing. Why do airlines like 'em? (A) It shows that you have the ability to go out there and gain an education at a very independent level - therefore it can suggest a good level of determination and motivation. (B) It also shows that you can take your learning to a much broader level, i.e (you are someone who is quite intellectually malleable??)
To say that you "would never utilise" your degree is a load of rubbish. At which point do you think I would use my web design skills if I was flying a 737? It's not about what you've learned, it's about how you learn.
As mentioned above, the best thing you can do is get back on the motivation ladder and get back into some education programme whether it be A-levels, degree whatever. An airline would find this impressive - i.e. a guy that initially dropped everything but then picked themselves up and had another go (and was successful??)
Oh yeah, and, I had an IQ test at uni and scored 133. Can't see why ??!!!
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 52
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From: Here there and sometimes everywhere.
Crankcase, Just keep cracking away at those ATPL subjects and keep applying, something will give...By the way,don't ever give up, where there's a will, there's always a way! I eventually had to go the self financing route which takes a lot of time and money (even though I have a HND).
By the way your life around the time you were taking your A levels sounds hauntingly like mine, hence my A level results are worse than yours..I'm truely sorry for your loss.
Good luck.
F-S
By the way your life around the time you were taking your A levels sounds hauntingly like mine, hence my A level results are worse than yours..I'm truely sorry for your loss.
Good luck.
F-S
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 71
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From: UK
Well i thought i would add my ten cents worth. Im, as my handle gives away, not into the 'airline thing' but more of a helicopter man
. I did however do selection for the forces and passed flight app, i also have a degree, but no A levels. Crank, i think, and this is only my opinoun, knowing that competion is extremely high for these places and the calibre of applicants, think it would be very difficult for someone like yourself to get sponsorship. Please dont take this the wrong way, i have friends who fly for BA and they regularly state that some of the pilots they fly with are absolute morons. I personally think that paper qualification are overated, im sure your all aware that my spelling is crap thats cos im Dyslexic, but im a bloody good pilot, have passed Flight App at RAF cranwell etc..etc..and now well on my way doing my ATPL studies and having no problems, well maybe one or too!!! However, the airlines need to have some way of selecting future pilots and unfortuantly educational achievments is the only way..crappy but true.. There is of course way more to this argument, more than im willing to go into, cos it would end up beinga bloody essay!!
Look at alternatives, think about getting your ATPL, the main thing ive realised is that its not so much about ability, obviusly that is important, but more about staying power and stickerbility...you just got to get your nose down and do it and i can tell you right now that even after you qualify as a commercial pilot getting a job is going to be the greatest test of all.
Rotormad
. I did however do selection for the forces and passed flight app, i also have a degree, but no A levels. Crank, i think, and this is only my opinoun, knowing that competion is extremely high for these places and the calibre of applicants, think it would be very difficult for someone like yourself to get sponsorship. Please dont take this the wrong way, i have friends who fly for BA and they regularly state that some of the pilots they fly with are absolute morons. I personally think that paper qualification are overated, im sure your all aware that my spelling is crap thats cos im Dyslexic, but im a bloody good pilot, have passed Flight App at RAF cranwell etc..etc..and now well on my way doing my ATPL studies and having no problems, well maybe one or too!!! However, the airlines need to have some way of selecting future pilots and unfortuantly educational achievments is the only way..crappy but true.. There is of course way more to this argument, more than im willing to go into, cos it would end up beinga bloody essay!!Look at alternatives, think about getting your ATPL, the main thing ive realised is that its not so much about ability, obviusly that is important, but more about staying power and stickerbility...you just got to get your nose down and do it and i can tell you right now that even after you qualify as a commercial pilot getting a job is going to be the greatest test of all.
Rotormad
