Airbus Type Rating
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 140
Likes: 9
From: Copenhagen
so who is footing the bill if you walk out of there now?
I understand it stings a bit on on your pride to leave, but maybe its for the better if its not costing you a dime for type training so far. Alot of airlines require you to jump thru their hoops and pass the stage checks as you progress, so thats the game as its their trainset,so they get to call the shots. If you do decide to pay for the 2nd course, at least you will that much further ahead than the kids on day one
There has to be some deeper issues since they are binning you now, instead of tweaking your performance with some minor training events. Maybe some introspection and formulating a plan along with renting some time in one of the million FSTDs that emulate the Airbus so you can go over stuff with a normal instructor and no pressure?
I understand it stings a bit on on your pride to leave, but maybe its for the better if its not costing you a dime for type training so far. Alot of airlines require you to jump thru their hoops and pass the stage checks as you progress, so thats the game as its their trainset,so they get to call the shots. If you do decide to pay for the 2nd course, at least you will that much further ahead than the kids on day one
There has to be some deeper issues since they are binning you now, instead of tweaking your performance with some minor training events. Maybe some introspection and formulating a plan along with renting some time in one of the million FSTDs that emulate the Airbus so you can go over stuff with a normal instructor and no pressure?
Joined: Nov 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,144
Likes: 741
From: UK
This sounds crazy.
If you really had no ability and were a complete no hoper, they should have taken you aside much earlier and suggested a plan to get you up to speed, or suggested that you parted company before too much time and money had been wasted on either side.
To try to dump you now, so close to your final exams, is daft. If you are paying, then you are the customer and they are providing a service to you in the form of a training course. They work for you, not the other way round. For them to wait until now to suggest you should start the course again from the beginning - at your expense presumably - is ridiculous at this late stage.
If they are paying for you, they can stop the course, but again, why wait so long to do that.
I would have a meeting with their head of training. It sounds as if you need a week or two out of the classroom to go back over the books and the ground course notes, and then make sure you learn all the SOPs and flight profiles, preferably with a buddy. Then rejoin the course.
A type rating is hard work - you need to study about 12 hours a day. No time for television or socialising. Go over and over the notes and descriptions until you understand them. Practise the test questions over and over again. Draw out the flight profiles over and over again and write in all the speeds, pitch angles, etc. Walk out the profiles, circuits etc. in the garden or a field; speaking all the parameters, altitudes, speeds, configs and SOP phrases etc, to yourself. Do this for PF and PM roles.
If you really had no ability and were a complete no hoper, they should have taken you aside much earlier and suggested a plan to get you up to speed, or suggested that you parted company before too much time and money had been wasted on either side.
To try to dump you now, so close to your final exams, is daft. If you are paying, then you are the customer and they are providing a service to you in the form of a training course. They work for you, not the other way round. For them to wait until now to suggest you should start the course again from the beginning - at your expense presumably - is ridiculous at this late stage.
If they are paying for you, they can stop the course, but again, why wait so long to do that.
I would have a meeting with their head of training. It sounds as if you need a week or two out of the classroom to go back over the books and the ground course notes, and then make sure you learn all the SOPs and flight profiles, preferably with a buddy. Then rejoin the course.
A type rating is hard work - you need to study about 12 hours a day. No time for television or socialising. Go over and over the notes and descriptions until you understand them. Practise the test questions over and over again. Draw out the flight profiles over and over again and write in all the speeds, pitch angles, etc. Walk out the profiles, circuits etc. in the garden or a field; speaking all the parameters, altitudes, speeds, configs and SOP phrases etc, to yourself. Do this for PF and PM roles.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Earth
I managed to speak to one of the instructors who conducted my lesson ( i had a total of 3) and he did make me aware my knowledge was poor on the systems to which i am aware and acknowledged, he suggested spending some time on fcom/fctm and general system knowledge using such materials such as youtube, he also suggested that maybe the previous instructor who originally conducted my training may have been too lenient in passing me to get this far to which I debate, i agree my knowledge is poor but I did my level best at each sessions up and until the end and managed to do the lesson tasks/objectives eg ILS approach/ UPRT recovery etc,
Also I wanted to state that, which person at a novice stage knows the full airbus system, again i did not wish to argue but wanted to seek knowledge/advice on how to overcome this hurdle and finish my training, he did say if he was my original instructor and if did not know the basics as in the stage at where i was he would have not let me continue until i demonstrated a standard of understanding , he also stated that before i make any rash decisions in terms of continuing the training spend 2-3 months studying and then start the type rating again, to which i said i would do the actions he asked, thus any websites or apps/ external materials or books can anyone suggest to get my understanding to a standard of level?
I am comfortable with the flows/ flight profiles but agree i have not studied or practised with my sim partner during my time at the type rating, I am going to take time out to study as much as i can but i feel like its a question when asking how long is a piece of string, in terms of test questions any websites or apps i can use?
I have had time to reflect on my mistakes and my weaknesses to which i admit but at the same time i feel angry to be at the stage i am, again I know this path is not easy and the type rating can be done with the right mind set and focus...
It feels embarrassing to be at this stage , I mean I have not come across many or other students in my shoes, I have heard of students repeating lessons etc but for the training to be terminated is a real kick in the teeth and to do it all again at my own expense is worrying but I feel I can do this with the right mind set and focus and support...
Also I wanted to state that, which person at a novice stage knows the full airbus system, again i did not wish to argue but wanted to seek knowledge/advice on how to overcome this hurdle and finish my training, he did say if he was my original instructor and if did not know the basics as in the stage at where i was he would have not let me continue until i demonstrated a standard of understanding , he also stated that before i make any rash decisions in terms of continuing the training spend 2-3 months studying and then start the type rating again, to which i said i would do the actions he asked, thus any websites or apps/ external materials or books can anyone suggest to get my understanding to a standard of level?
I am comfortable with the flows/ flight profiles but agree i have not studied or practised with my sim partner during my time at the type rating, I am going to take time out to study as much as i can but i feel like its a question when asking how long is a piece of string, in terms of test questions any websites or apps i can use?
I have had time to reflect on my mistakes and my weaknesses to which i admit but at the same time i feel angry to be at the stage i am, again I know this path is not easy and the type rating can be done with the right mind set and focus...
It feels embarrassing to be at this stage , I mean I have not come across many or other students in my shoes, I have heard of students repeating lessons etc but for the training to be terminated is a real kick in the teeth and to do it all again at my own expense is worrying but I feel I can do this with the right mind set and focus and support...
Joined: Nov 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,144
Likes: 741
From: UK
You now have the course notes, and the FCOM and the FCTM - or you should have.
You should also have sets of practice questions. You should have all you need, and you have already paid for it. You don't need to use Youtube, which is an unregulated resource with unqualified people, and which I would stay away from.
You just need to go through all the lessons and paperwork again at home and make sure you fully understand it, and can recall it, and pass the tests.
When you have got this all sorted out you can rejoin the course and take the tests again to prove your system knowledge is up to speed.
If you are paying, why are they terminating your course - if you are paying then it's not their decision. They can advise that you will not pass with your current level of knowledge and ability but I don't see how they can terminate you. If they were paying then yes, but they're not paying.
I would say you need a few weeks away to catch up, then go back and continue your course.
PS, when you say you are comfortable with the profiles, can you draw each one from scratch on a blank sheet of paper and add all the parameters and phase changes ? Can you walk each profile, speaking all the SOPs for PF and then PM ?
PPS, get your SIM buddy, other half, friend or family member to test your knowledge. It is possible to convince yourself that you know things, when actually you might not. This can be revealed when questions are asked in a different way.
You should also have sets of practice questions. You should have all you need, and you have already paid for it. You don't need to use Youtube, which is an unregulated resource with unqualified people, and which I would stay away from.
You just need to go through all the lessons and paperwork again at home and make sure you fully understand it, and can recall it, and pass the tests.
When you have got this all sorted out you can rejoin the course and take the tests again to prove your system knowledge is up to speed.
If you are paying, why are they terminating your course - if you are paying then it's not their decision. They can advise that you will not pass with your current level of knowledge and ability but I don't see how they can terminate you. If they were paying then yes, but they're not paying.
I would say you need a few weeks away to catch up, then go back and continue your course.
PS, when you say you are comfortable with the profiles, can you draw each one from scratch on a blank sheet of paper and add all the parameters and phase changes ? Can you walk each profile, speaking all the SOPs for PF and then PM ?
PPS, get your SIM buddy, other half, friend or family member to test your knowledge. It is possible to convince yourself that you know things, when actually you might not. This can be revealed when questions are asked in a different way.
Last edited by Uplinker; 15th July 2024 at 08:40.
Joined: Nov 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,144
Likes: 741
From: UK
As an exercise, without looking anything up beforehand, give us an overview of either the A320 electrical system or the hydraulic system in the 'Quick reply' box below.
I am not trying to catch you out or embarrass you, but just gently putting you on the spot so you can see for yourself what aspects you know and maybe don't know yet. (Or if you prefer, do this privately on a sheet of paper).
I am not trying to catch you out or embarrass you, but just gently putting you on the spot so you can see for yourself what aspects you know and maybe don't know yet. (Or if you prefer, do this privately on a sheet of paper).
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 587
Likes: 60
From: FLSomething
I managed to speak to one of the instructors who conducted my lesson ( i had a total of 3) and he did make me aware my knowledge was poor on the systems to which i am aware and acknowledged, he suggested spending some time on fcom/fctm and general system knowledge using such materials such as youtube, he also suggested that maybe the previous instructor who originally conducted my training may have been too lenient in passing me to get this far to which I debate, i agree my knowledge is poor but I did my level best at each sessions up and until the end and managed to do the lesson tasks/objectives eg ILS approach/ UPRT recovery etc,
Also I wanted to state that, which person at a novice stage knows the full airbus system, again i did not wish to argue but wanted to seek knowledge/advice on how to overcome this hurdle and finish my training, he did say if he was my original instructor and if did not know the basics as in the stage at where i was he would have not let me continue until i demonstrated a standard of understanding , he also stated that before i make any rash decisions in terms of continuing the training spend 2-3 months studying and then start the type rating again, to which i said i would do the actions he asked, thus any websites or apps/ external materials or books can anyone suggest to get my understanding to a standard of level?
I am comfortable with the flows/ flight profiles but agree i have not studied or practised with my sim partner during my time at the type rating, I am going to take time out to study as much as i can but i feel like its a question when asking how long is a piece of string, in terms of test questions any websites or apps i can use?
I have had time to reflect on my mistakes and my weaknesses to which i admit but at the same time i feel angry to be at the stage i am, again I know this path is not easy and the type rating can be done with the right mind set and focus...
It feels embarrassing to be at this stage , I mean I have not come across many or other students in my shoes, I have heard of students repeating lessons etc but for the training to be terminated is a real kick in the teeth and to do it all again at my own expense is worrying but I feel I can do this with the right mind set and focus and support...
Also I wanted to state that, which person at a novice stage knows the full airbus system, again i did not wish to argue but wanted to seek knowledge/advice on how to overcome this hurdle and finish my training, he did say if he was my original instructor and if did not know the basics as in the stage at where i was he would have not let me continue until i demonstrated a standard of understanding , he also stated that before i make any rash decisions in terms of continuing the training spend 2-3 months studying and then start the type rating again, to which i said i would do the actions he asked, thus any websites or apps/ external materials or books can anyone suggest to get my understanding to a standard of level?
I am comfortable with the flows/ flight profiles but agree i have not studied or practised with my sim partner during my time at the type rating, I am going to take time out to study as much as i can but i feel like its a question when asking how long is a piece of string, in terms of test questions any websites or apps i can use?
I have had time to reflect on my mistakes and my weaknesses to which i admit but at the same time i feel angry to be at the stage i am, again I know this path is not easy and the type rating can be done with the right mind set and focus...
It feels embarrassing to be at this stage , I mean I have not come across many or other students in my shoes, I have heard of students repeating lessons etc but for the training to be terminated is a real kick in the teeth and to do it all again at my own expense is worrying but I feel I can do this with the right mind set and focus and support...
You don’t need to be able to draw the entire schematics of every part of the 320, very few training captains could on the spot. But you need to know roughly what the stuff does, not necessarily how to do it.
You want specific material - look up ‘A320 podcast’. A phenomenal back catalogue of material designed for people just like you, learning the type. I still use it after being on it years and jumping seat, it’s designed for all of that. Very accessible 20 minute odd episodes designed to demystify. They do a subject area each episode. Yes it’s ‘not approved’, but it’s made by trainers and it’s very good, there’s a limit to how pedantic you can be with ‘approved’ material. The biro you use in the flight deck isn’t ‘approved’ etc…
I wouldn’t think you’d need 2 to 3 months, the tech section is usually only 2 weeks long anyway. Maybe take a month off. First week do very little, then hammer it for the last three weeks. And by hammer it I mean hammer it. You should know the sim profiles in your sleep having had 12 pints on a big night out. They need to be absolutely second nature. All of them.
Being blunt I think you just didn’t put enough work in the first time, a lack of knowledge rather than lack of skill is the symptom of that. I also suspect you genuinely didn’t know how much work you’d have to put in, and to be fair for a first rating why would you.
Are you staying in a hotel near the sim centre? If not do so, if you’ve got kids they’re getting parked for 6 weeks of the course (sorry). This is possibly your last chance to pass the rating and get employed by this carrier. Mess this up and that could be it for your career. Yes that’s the hard truth, but you need to just write off the next couple of months and in return you’ll get a 30 year plus dying career as payback. You need to be with your sim partner for hours a day. Every. Single. Day. You don’t get days off on the course.
Personally I think you ought to be okay, you’ve presumably passed a single pilot ME/IR, that’s far harder than airline flying.
PM me if you want any more thoughts, equally reply here and everyone gets the benefit. Good luck!
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Earth
your overview of the hydraulic system all i am aware or know at this stage is theres three: blue/ yellow/ green and there's a redundancy back up in case one fails, with the electrics I know the battery voltage limit and where required there is an external power sources available such as the external battery on the ground or the APU functions,
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 587
Likes: 60
From: FLSomething
your overview of the hydraulic system all i am aware or know at this stage is theres three: blue/ yellow/ green and there's a redundancy back up in case one fails, with the electrics I know the battery voltage limit and where required there is an external power sources available such as the external battery on the ground or the APU functions,
Try the podcast, the hydraulics ones, for example, are absolutely excellent.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Earth
Thank you , I will check out the podcast, I think I underestimated the amount of work the first time as well as lack of knowledge, and how to progress with the work load, I was living by myself in an apartment which consisted of some reading and hammering youtube videos and asking friends who have done the type rating before me questions on various subjects that i didn't understand or which it didn't make sense,- again I should have asked the instructors but I felt if i asked them then they would have not gone forward with the sim session or state adequate preparation/lack of preparation... I am a family man and I moved abroad to do this course, it was difficult juggling family life and a nagging wife with the threat of taking the kids or not paying them much attention- this was not helpfull i must admit, I also did feel if i did stay close by or lived with my sim partner it would have been more enjoyable as in discuss profiles/ lesson plans etc, so I know second time round I will improve on this 100 %, at the same time since i am home I am enjoying seeing the kids and thinking do i take the jump and do it again or move on, I know it sound stupid but I really am nervous and at the same time wish to succeed, Thus would appreciate your thoughts on the matter..
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 140
Likes: 9
From: Copenhagen
You need the wife on-side… the problem is they dont know and dont care about the level of work you have to put into this.
Like everybody said, you dont need stupid distractions like her and the kids so best you move to same dorms as the other kids , and here you WILL feel alien as you are at completely different stages of life.. aka they dont have any..at all. So they will crank out 22hrs of studying a day and you can too without trivial homefront niffnaff.
Let the fam know you love them and all that jazz, and ensure them you need this 6 week period to disappear up your own butt to complete this.
Like everybody said, you dont need stupid distractions like her and the kids so best you move to same dorms as the other kids , and here you WILL feel alien as you are at completely different stages of life.. aka they dont have any..at all. So they will crank out 22hrs of studying a day and you can too without trivial homefront niffnaff.
Let the fam know you love them and all that jazz, and ensure them you need this 6 week period to disappear up your own butt to complete this.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Earth
I wish it was that easy with the wife, agree with the comment they dont see the end result they think its all glamorous as in staying at fancy hotels and ordering room service and partying with the cabin crew , its far from that lol , when I initially did the type rating i did end up renting a place to myself and tried my best to study but I did feel isolated not having any1 to talk too or ask for much help other than calling friends whom have done the training before me but not having someone physically to talk to did feel like I was in prison, so hopefully second time round I can count on my sim partner for assistance... at the moment just feel negative and depressed to a certain extent- which i assume is normal so trying to stay positive and to continue is quite difficult at this stage but at the same time I dont want to be like this for the next 2-3 months etc as time is ticking..
Joined: Nov 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,144
Likes: 741
From: UK
OK, you need a much deeper system knowledge.
I thought you would be able to tell us that there are five(seven), sources of electrical power on the A320, and what they are:
One Main Generator on each engine, one Main Generator on the APU, a RAT powered emergency generator, and aircraft batteries. Any single Main Generator can power the whole aircraft, (on the ground or in a flight emergency, with Galley Shedding). (and each engine FADEC also has its own electrical generator, making a total of seven electrical power sources). You need to know all this, along with switching priorities and electrical capacities of all the various power sources, How long can you fly on batteries alone, for example ? How is the power distributed. Which aircraft systems use AC, which ones use DC ? How is the DC power generated ? What is the RAT, and when is it used ? You must surely have looked at the ECAM system pages for all the aircraft systems ??
There are three separate hydraulic systems, with seven(eight) sources of hydraulic power: One Main Hydraulic pump on each engine. A Main Electric pump powering a third system full-time, (which one ?). An electric pump which can intermittently power the Yellow system in a limited way, a PTU, a RAT hydraulic pump, and brake accumulators. You can fly and land the aircraft with only one hydraulic system - with certain restrictions. (There is also a hand operated pump on the Yellow system for ground operations). You need to know all this, and which major aircraft services are powered by which hydraulic system(s).
Were you not given a copy of the Airbus A320 FCOM ? You should have studied each system in depth; Electrics, Hydraulics, Fuel storage, supply and transfer. Fire and Smoke, Pressurisation, Air conditioning, Gear and brakes, Flight Controls, FBW - computers, computer priorities. reversions. Autopilot and flight directors, FMGS, Indicating and recording systems, Auto-thrust, Navigation, Ice and rain protection, etc. You should have had an exam to test and prove your knowledge on each system.
I am not trying to be clever here, nor am I having a go at you, This is all basic knowledge and I am shocked that you have not been taught it by your ATO, (Approved Training Organisation). Why are you having to watch Youtube videos - you should have, and need to, study the proper Airbus manuals; the FCOM, (Flight Crew Operating Manual), and the FCTM, (Flight Crew Training Manual).
I thought you would be able to tell us that there are five(seven), sources of electrical power on the A320, and what they are:
One Main Generator on each engine, one Main Generator on the APU, a RAT powered emergency generator, and aircraft batteries. Any single Main Generator can power the whole aircraft, (on the ground or in a flight emergency, with Galley Shedding). (and each engine FADEC also has its own electrical generator, making a total of seven electrical power sources). You need to know all this, along with switching priorities and electrical capacities of all the various power sources, How long can you fly on batteries alone, for example ? How is the power distributed. Which aircraft systems use AC, which ones use DC ? How is the DC power generated ? What is the RAT, and when is it used ? You must surely have looked at the ECAM system pages for all the aircraft systems ??
There are three separate hydraulic systems, with seven(eight) sources of hydraulic power: One Main Hydraulic pump on each engine. A Main Electric pump powering a third system full-time, (which one ?). An electric pump which can intermittently power the Yellow system in a limited way, a PTU, a RAT hydraulic pump, and brake accumulators. You can fly and land the aircraft with only one hydraulic system - with certain restrictions. (There is also a hand operated pump on the Yellow system for ground operations). You need to know all this, and which major aircraft services are powered by which hydraulic system(s).
Were you not given a copy of the Airbus A320 FCOM ? You should have studied each system in depth; Electrics, Hydraulics, Fuel storage, supply and transfer. Fire and Smoke, Pressurisation, Air conditioning, Gear and brakes, Flight Controls, FBW - computers, computer priorities. reversions. Autopilot and flight directors, FMGS, Indicating and recording systems, Auto-thrust, Navigation, Ice and rain protection, etc. You should have had an exam to test and prove your knowledge on each system.
I am not trying to be clever here, nor am I having a go at you, This is all basic knowledge and I am shocked that you have not been taught it by your ATO, (Approved Training Organisation). Why are you having to watch Youtube videos - you should have, and need to, study the proper Airbus manuals; the FCOM, (Flight Crew Operating Manual), and the FCTM, (Flight Crew Training Manual).
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Earth
we were given a CBT to watch and attempt the questions at the end followed by a test of the airbus systems which i passed, currently have a copy of FCOM and will be studying this soon , as well as FCTM..
Joined: Oct 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,027
Likes: 120
From: Wherever I go, there I am
Hi again Michael_A,
Two things I want to touch on: resources and distractions.
Resources
I tell students there are three types of knowledge in aviation: Need to know, nice to know, and nerd level. Most companies I've worked for take this to heart, and understand that you won't be an expert at the end of the initial. After all, the initial is simply a license to learn. There is a fine line between these levels, especially during an initial, but everything you'll ever need to know as a line pilot from a systems standpoint will be contained in the FCOM. I agree with Uplinker in that if you've not yet picked up or only recently began reading the FCOM, that's concerning. The FCOM (and FCTM if Airbus puts one out) should be the go-to resources during an initial. So much so that I tell my students to do this: Read the FCOM section for the system you will be learning about. Don't read it to study or understand, just read it as though you were reading any old book. Then watch the CBT video and take your notes. The hope here is that at most one or two things from your first reading made viewing the CBT easier. Now that you've watched the CBT, re-read the FCOM.Things will make a lot more sense and it'll let you ask questions of your instructors from a higher level of knowledge. Keep going down this road of FCOM-CBT-FCOM and you'll quickly learn the system.
As far as YouTube and Podcasts, I give caution to initial students even though I agree with posters above that they are a great resource. The problem is that you're not always sure of the experience of the presenter and all presenters use an assumed level of knowledge when putting their presentations together, with most not telling their audience what that level is. I've seen some great videos with flashy animations and graphics and presenters that sound more knowledgeable than our company training pilots. But then I look at the date, realize the video is 14 years old and there have been umpteen changes to the system that causes the video to now be incorrect. If you don't take that step to confirm the validity of the video, then you're already behind the 8-ball. I've also listened to some great podcasts that I quickly realize are begun from an assumed level of knowledge that is well above that of an initial student, despite the information being golden for a recurrent student or future instructor. I've also seen videos and podcasts that look and sound great, but are missing some very key points of information that are absolutely required to understand the system, but because the presenter didn't have that level of knowledge, they didn't know they had to pass that information on to you. This most often comes to play with aircraft options. The presenter could present an aircraft option (or lack of one) as applying to the global fleet, without realizing their airline either took (or did not take) an option that changed the system compared to others in the fleet. This can make talking about something simple as data entry into an FMC very distracting for a pilot whose company took option b instead of option a, and yet because you don't know there are different options, you end up confused. I'm not saying don't use these resources, but understand you and they have limitations you have to be aware of. So if it doesn't make sense to you, go back to the FCOM and ignore the video for now.
Distractions
It sounds as though your family has been a huge distraction for you.Try as we might, we cannot simply enter "family mode" and "work mode." We carry both parts of our lives with us into training, and if we're distracted by anything, training suffers. I've had students show up to sim before only to find out a family member just died, or they just broke up with their significant other, or one where the pilot found out that morning they had cancer. However, the single most common distraction is that which you are describing: family who doesn't understand the pressure put on us. I describe a type rating as being somewhat equivalent to a Year 1 University semester boiled down to less than two months. The workload is intense, and if you don't adequately prepare your family for it, then you end up holding the bag. I often tell people that my wife also has six type ratings because she's been by my side for all of them. But it wasn't until the third or fourth that she began to understand the level of study required. Indeed, they see us sitting at an iPad or computer watching videos, and we go in to work for 6 hours, only 4 of which are in the simulator, so it's easy for them to think it's easy for us. Especially if we're sitting somewhere warm in a company provided, all-inclusive hotel.
You have two jobs. The first is to prepare your family. Show your spouse and kids what you have to learn. A cockpit poster is good for this. You have to learn what every switch does, how it presents on the screens, and how to fix issues when they happen. Not only that, but that every sub-panel has its own computer which you have to learn how it is programmed to operate. You don't have to show system diagrams, but once you boil everything down to this, most family members begin to appreciate the commitment you have to put it. Someone said above it requires 12 hours a day, and I would tend to agree with that. So no, you don't have time to help with the dishes, or putting out the trash, or looking after the kids while you're studying. Laundry gets done once a week, and the time you take for yourself away from study is to relax your brain and consolidate the information, not to take on family duties. It sucks. It sucks big time. But that's what it takes. That's the commitment required to be a professional pilot completing an initial type rating.
Your second job is to tell your instructors if you're distracted. Too many times I asked students or flight test candidates if they were prepared for the session. My exact speech was: "Are there any professional or personal reasons we should delay or cancel today's session? I ask because talking about it now is a reason. Talking about it after is an excuse." I did this to give the student or candidate a chance to have a different conversation with me before the session. What I didn't say, but implied in tone is that reasons are good, excuses are childish and unprofessional. Training can always be moved. Yes it's a pain in the butt for someone, yes it "wastes" resources, and yes it may mean they can't get you back in for a week or so. But that is better than getting into a session that you are simply not prepared for. Being unprepared is unprofessional and shows poor risk management and decision making abilities. Especially during a flight test. Too many pilots told me after they failed a ride that they were distracted and should have taken me up on my offer. But at that point it's too late, the ride is failed. But cancelling before the session has no negative implications as long as it doesn't become a trend over multiple sessions. So be honest with yourself and your instructor if you are distracted and put a plan in place to remove where possible or otherwise minimize the distraction. Otherwise, you'll keep walking the same path getting the same result.
Two things I want to touch on: resources and distractions.
Resources
I tell students there are three types of knowledge in aviation: Need to know, nice to know, and nerd level. Most companies I've worked for take this to heart, and understand that you won't be an expert at the end of the initial. After all, the initial is simply a license to learn. There is a fine line between these levels, especially during an initial, but everything you'll ever need to know as a line pilot from a systems standpoint will be contained in the FCOM. I agree with Uplinker in that if you've not yet picked up or only recently began reading the FCOM, that's concerning. The FCOM (and FCTM if Airbus puts one out) should be the go-to resources during an initial. So much so that I tell my students to do this: Read the FCOM section for the system you will be learning about. Don't read it to study or understand, just read it as though you were reading any old book. Then watch the CBT video and take your notes. The hope here is that at most one or two things from your first reading made viewing the CBT easier. Now that you've watched the CBT, re-read the FCOM.Things will make a lot more sense and it'll let you ask questions of your instructors from a higher level of knowledge. Keep going down this road of FCOM-CBT-FCOM and you'll quickly learn the system.
As far as YouTube and Podcasts, I give caution to initial students even though I agree with posters above that they are a great resource. The problem is that you're not always sure of the experience of the presenter and all presenters use an assumed level of knowledge when putting their presentations together, with most not telling their audience what that level is. I've seen some great videos with flashy animations and graphics and presenters that sound more knowledgeable than our company training pilots. But then I look at the date, realize the video is 14 years old and there have been umpteen changes to the system that causes the video to now be incorrect. If you don't take that step to confirm the validity of the video, then you're already behind the 8-ball. I've also listened to some great podcasts that I quickly realize are begun from an assumed level of knowledge that is well above that of an initial student, despite the information being golden for a recurrent student or future instructor. I've also seen videos and podcasts that look and sound great, but are missing some very key points of information that are absolutely required to understand the system, but because the presenter didn't have that level of knowledge, they didn't know they had to pass that information on to you. This most often comes to play with aircraft options. The presenter could present an aircraft option (or lack of one) as applying to the global fleet, without realizing their airline either took (or did not take) an option that changed the system compared to others in the fleet. This can make talking about something simple as data entry into an FMC very distracting for a pilot whose company took option b instead of option a, and yet because you don't know there are different options, you end up confused. I'm not saying don't use these resources, but understand you and they have limitations you have to be aware of. So if it doesn't make sense to you, go back to the FCOM and ignore the video for now.
Distractions
It sounds as though your family has been a huge distraction for you.Try as we might, we cannot simply enter "family mode" and "work mode." We carry both parts of our lives with us into training, and if we're distracted by anything, training suffers. I've had students show up to sim before only to find out a family member just died, or they just broke up with their significant other, or one where the pilot found out that morning they had cancer. However, the single most common distraction is that which you are describing: family who doesn't understand the pressure put on us. I describe a type rating as being somewhat equivalent to a Year 1 University semester boiled down to less than two months. The workload is intense, and if you don't adequately prepare your family for it, then you end up holding the bag. I often tell people that my wife also has six type ratings because she's been by my side for all of them. But it wasn't until the third or fourth that she began to understand the level of study required. Indeed, they see us sitting at an iPad or computer watching videos, and we go in to work for 6 hours, only 4 of which are in the simulator, so it's easy for them to think it's easy for us. Especially if we're sitting somewhere warm in a company provided, all-inclusive hotel.
You have two jobs. The first is to prepare your family. Show your spouse and kids what you have to learn. A cockpit poster is good for this. You have to learn what every switch does, how it presents on the screens, and how to fix issues when they happen. Not only that, but that every sub-panel has its own computer which you have to learn how it is programmed to operate. You don't have to show system diagrams, but once you boil everything down to this, most family members begin to appreciate the commitment you have to put it. Someone said above it requires 12 hours a day, and I would tend to agree with that. So no, you don't have time to help with the dishes, or putting out the trash, or looking after the kids while you're studying. Laundry gets done once a week, and the time you take for yourself away from study is to relax your brain and consolidate the information, not to take on family duties. It sucks. It sucks big time. But that's what it takes. That's the commitment required to be a professional pilot completing an initial type rating.
Your second job is to tell your instructors if you're distracted. Too many times I asked students or flight test candidates if they were prepared for the session. My exact speech was: "Are there any professional or personal reasons we should delay or cancel today's session? I ask because talking about it now is a reason. Talking about it after is an excuse." I did this to give the student or candidate a chance to have a different conversation with me before the session. What I didn't say, but implied in tone is that reasons are good, excuses are childish and unprofessional. Training can always be moved. Yes it's a pain in the butt for someone, yes it "wastes" resources, and yes it may mean they can't get you back in for a week or so. But that is better than getting into a session that you are simply not prepared for. Being unprepared is unprofessional and shows poor risk management and decision making abilities. Especially during a flight test. Too many pilots told me after they failed a ride that they were distracted and should have taken me up on my offer. But at that point it's too late, the ride is failed. But cancelling before the session has no negative implications as long as it doesn't become a trend over multiple sessions. So be honest with yourself and your instructor if you are distracted and put a plan in place to remove where possible or otherwise minimize the distraction. Otherwise, you'll keep walking the same path getting the same result.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Earth
Thank you for your detailed reply, I have decided to take some time out clear my head and come back with a positive mind set, currently still feeling down and some what depressed but at the same time the hunger is in the belly but at times thinking the path I choose is it worth disrupting family life as that if i did get a 9-5 office job at least i will be at home and work home life will be balanced but then i some times think i have a second chance and that I know the struggle that I went thru to get this far and the struggle will pay off, having an office view at 30,000 ft is some time unreal and each day will be different, yes to get the first 500 hours will be a struggle but afterwards the struggle will be worth it
I like your comment about speaking to the instructor and about distractions, I felt at my initial type rating training If i did came forward and spoke up they would have just postponed the lesson and made a note and just would not really care as they are on a time frame themselves, it seems second time round with the type rating at a different location from speaking to a friend who is doing the course it seems more relaxed and tailored to the student etc, I recall a lesson where i did not plan adequately and realised i was over my head in terms of lesson planning and I explained this to the instructor never the less he let the lesson go ahead and made a report on my file for it to be repeated and i did not plan adequately, which I was annoyed as I rather would have let the lesson be cancelled and have a lesson on briefing me what I should have prepared for the lesson and what I lacked on etc..
Looking at the various comments, I feel that I did not plan well from day 1 and not being on the same page as my sim instructor did not help, thus i am understanding my mistake and will improve on them and bring a better knowledge and studying when i do the type rating the second time round, its about 18 lessons/sim time the whole type rating that i originally did, yes it will be annoying doing it again but i feel i have the added advantage of knowing what i have done previously so it should make the second time far better, I also did hate the time in the sim originally where i did an action wrong and the instructor kept shouting, during those moments i just kept a look on the clock and thought only 15 mins left etc, as i just wanted to get out the sim as i felt crap, I know the sim lessons are ment to be enjoyable and a learning experience but for me it was the opposite..
At the same time i dont want to leave it for so long where i forget stuff but want to ask this low negative sad feeling is this normal and how do i overcome this feeling..
I like your comment about speaking to the instructor and about distractions, I felt at my initial type rating training If i did came forward and spoke up they would have just postponed the lesson and made a note and just would not really care as they are on a time frame themselves, it seems second time round with the type rating at a different location from speaking to a friend who is doing the course it seems more relaxed and tailored to the student etc, I recall a lesson where i did not plan adequately and realised i was over my head in terms of lesson planning and I explained this to the instructor never the less he let the lesson go ahead and made a report on my file for it to be repeated and i did not plan adequately, which I was annoyed as I rather would have let the lesson be cancelled and have a lesson on briefing me what I should have prepared for the lesson and what I lacked on etc..
Looking at the various comments, I feel that I did not plan well from day 1 and not being on the same page as my sim instructor did not help, thus i am understanding my mistake and will improve on them and bring a better knowledge and studying when i do the type rating the second time round, its about 18 lessons/sim time the whole type rating that i originally did, yes it will be annoying doing it again but i feel i have the added advantage of knowing what i have done previously so it should make the second time far better, I also did hate the time in the sim originally where i did an action wrong and the instructor kept shouting, during those moments i just kept a look on the clock and thought only 15 mins left etc, as i just wanted to get out the sim as i felt crap, I know the sim lessons are ment to be enjoyable and a learning experience but for me it was the opposite..
At the same time i dont want to leave it for so long where i forget stuff but want to ask this low negative sad feeling is this normal and how do i overcome this feeling..
Joined: Nov 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,144
Likes: 741
From: UK
I am very sorry to hear this.
If an instructor at a school you are paying for ever shouts at you, shout back: "don't shout at me !". Shouting at students is totally unhelpful and there is no need for trainers to shout during training, (unless you are just about to step off the SIM platform or something).
I once said exactly this during a go-around on my twin engined propellor night test, (actual aircarft, not the SIM), which I had flown not exactly to his liking. He shut up and once we were climbing safely away, and clean; I then told the instructor that I was cancelling this test. Yes, me - I was the customer and I was paying for the training, and there was no way I could fly properly after being shouted at. (My test was quietly re-scheduled a few nights later with a different instructor, and with a successful outcome). If the instructor shouts, then they have not trained you properly, or as in my case, they are a rubbish instructor.
Yes, they can be direct, yes they can be critical, yes they can say you have knowledge shortcomings, yes they can calmly take control, yes they can fail you, but shouting at the student; never. Totally unacceptable.
.
If an instructor at a school you are paying for ever shouts at you, shout back: "don't shout at me !". Shouting at students is totally unhelpful and there is no need for trainers to shout during training, (unless you are just about to step off the SIM platform or something).
I once said exactly this during a go-around on my twin engined propellor night test, (actual aircarft, not the SIM), which I had flown not exactly to his liking. He shut up and once we were climbing safely away, and clean; I then told the instructor that I was cancelling this test. Yes, me - I was the customer and I was paying for the training, and there was no way I could fly properly after being shouted at. (My test was quietly re-scheduled a few nights later with a different instructor, and with a successful outcome). If the instructor shouts, then they have not trained you properly, or as in my case, they are a rubbish instructor.
Yes, they can be direct, yes they can be critical, yes they can say you have knowledge shortcomings, yes they can calmly take control, yes they can fail you, but shouting at the student; never. Totally unacceptable.
.
Last edited by Uplinker; 19th July 2024 at 10:46.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Earth
Again would like to say thank you for all the replies, has anyone been in similar situation or know of somebody, would love to get some advice on how to stay motivated etc
Last edited by Micheal_A; 24th July 2024 at 12:09. Reason: edit