Struggling on picking a flight school.
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Struggling on picking a flight school.
Hi all,
I'm in my early 20s, living down south besides London Heathrow, and i'm finally looking to start my training towards becoming a professional airline pilot.
Might also be important to note that I just received my class 1 medical certificate recently.
Now i'm at the stage where i want to pick a school to train in, going integrated, and at the moment i'm extremely conflicted in which one to pick.
I'd like to train with one that's stationed relatively close by since i don't plan on living out, and I've looked into a couple of the big ones such as L3 and CAE (also attending their open days).
Between the two, L3 sold themselves better, though i know the popular opinion online isn't great in regards to L3.
Right now i am almost set on applying to their integrated ATPL course regardless, but i think i'm still a bit puzzled and thought some further consultation here would help. Plus, i'm not too privy to all the aspects of training they don't tell you up front.
All in all i preferably just want a school that's reliable with high quality training, not too far, not a total rip-off, and gives me at least a solid chance in getting hired by an airline post-grad.
Simply put, as a young man with all the free time and money available for an integrated ATPL course ready to start his pilot training, what are my best options?
Thanks
I'm in my early 20s, living down south besides London Heathrow, and i'm finally looking to start my training towards becoming a professional airline pilot.
Might also be important to note that I just received my class 1 medical certificate recently.
Now i'm at the stage where i want to pick a school to train in, going integrated, and at the moment i'm extremely conflicted in which one to pick.
I'd like to train with one that's stationed relatively close by since i don't plan on living out, and I've looked into a couple of the big ones such as L3 and CAE (also attending their open days).
Between the two, L3 sold themselves better, though i know the popular opinion online isn't great in regards to L3.
Right now i am almost set on applying to their integrated ATPL course regardless, but i think i'm still a bit puzzled and thought some further consultation here would help. Plus, i'm not too privy to all the aspects of training they don't tell you up front.
All in all i preferably just want a school that's reliable with high quality training, not too far, not a total rip-off, and gives me at least a solid chance in getting hired by an airline post-grad.
Simply put, as a young man with all the free time and money available for an integrated ATPL course ready to start his pilot training, what are my best options?
Thanks
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Don't go integrated. You don't get any paper in your hand until the end of the course, and if they wash you out for whatever reason you have to start again without a PPL having lost a ton of money (got a couple of students in that position right now. I get fed up having to repair the damage caused by other schools). Otherwise, please make sure you exercise normal business caution and avoid paying money up front. Look what happened at Cabair and what may happen in the future to one or two schools that have already been mentioned here.
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Hi all,
I'm in my early 20s, living down south besides London Heathrow, and i'm finally looking to start my training towards becoming a professional airline pilot.
Might also be important to note that I just received my class 1 medical certificate recently.
Now i'm at the stage where i want to pick a school to train in, going integrated, and at the moment i'm extremely conflicted in which one to pick.
I'd like to train with one that's stationed relatively close by since i don't plan on living out, and I've looked into a couple of the big ones such as L3 and CAE (also attending their open days).
Between the two, L3 sold themselves better, though i know the popular opinion online isn't great in regards to L3.
Right now i am almost set on applying to their integrated ATPL course regardless, but i think i'm still a bit puzzled and thought some further consultation here would help. Plus, i'm not too privy to all the aspects of training they don't tell you up front.
All in all i preferably just want a school that's reliable with high quality training, not too far, not a total rip-off, and gives me at least a solid chance in getting hired by an airline post-grad.
Simply put, as a young man with all the free time and money available for an integrated ATPL course ready to start his pilot training, what are my best options?
Thanks
I'm in my early 20s, living down south besides London Heathrow, and i'm finally looking to start my training towards becoming a professional airline pilot.
Might also be important to note that I just received my class 1 medical certificate recently.
Now i'm at the stage where i want to pick a school to train in, going integrated, and at the moment i'm extremely conflicted in which one to pick.
I'd like to train with one that's stationed relatively close by since i don't plan on living out, and I've looked into a couple of the big ones such as L3 and CAE (also attending their open days).
Between the two, L3 sold themselves better, though i know the popular opinion online isn't great in regards to L3.
Right now i am almost set on applying to their integrated ATPL course regardless, but i think i'm still a bit puzzled and thought some further consultation here would help. Plus, i'm not too privy to all the aspects of training they don't tell you up front.
All in all i preferably just want a school that's reliable with high quality training, not too far, not a total rip-off, and gives me at least a solid chance in getting hired by an airline post-grad.
Simply put, as a young man with all the free time and money available for an integrated ATPL course ready to start his pilot training, what are my best options?
Thanks
Think. What do you want from your training? The most effective route to the RHS of a jet, in terms of time and cost? Or the biggest and most obnoxious epaulettes on your shoulder, from a school that’s more likely to say ‘thanks Tsabir62, all the best for the future 🙌’ on LinkedIn when you post a photo of you grinning at the end of MCC?
And L3 of all places. You say local but to be blunt you have no idea even what continent you’ll be training in. People have been sent to the Middle East to train, might be in the uk, might do groundschool at Bristol, bit of training at leading edge. You have absolutely no idea. And why would you? You sign up they’ve got you £100K in the bank before you’ve even posted your first #TraineePilot post on the gram. You’re tied in, that’s it. There is no incentive for them to look after you or build your training around you. If it’s more profitable outsource you, delay you, back course you, that’s what they’ll do. And of course they will. They’re a business, you’re the bankroll.
Modular school, you get messed about you’d just go elsewhere. There’s a mutually beneficial relationship there. Better the training the more you spend with them. They’re still a business, but there’s inherent accountability. Want to bash through the training? Great. Want to pace it around work? Also great.
Remember that when you’ve got the licence in hand, regardless of where they came from they are identical. You’ll then need a type rating and it’ll be £30K to buy into Ryanair or, bonded with J2, Wizz, Loganair etc or into somewhere like BA on their Cadet entry.
10 years ago there was arguably at least some merit to integrated as there was some bias towards integrated students. That’s fine though, look at the selection criteria for the major airlines. They know the bits of paper are all the same, it’s the individual they want. You’re an awful lot more interesting a candidate as a self made Modular student than a Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V integrated student. And that 30K saving vs integrated, comes in very handy when O’Leary sends you the bill!
I say this as a former integrated student with one of your mentioned schools. Got me the job, as would any other school, cost me though…
Appreciate this might seem a bit harsh but just stop and think about what you’re signing up to. Got loads of cash and do just want to go the way of the gram, fine, it’s your money, don’t let anyone stop you doing that! But please take a couple of weeks and go at this full time. Visit lots of schools, spend hours trawling the websites, dig through PPRuNe etc etc. It’s a 30+ year career you’ll be starting, don’t mess this but up.
Last edited by VariablePitchP; 16th Mar 2024 at 14:35.
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Just from having seeing all their facilities first hand, as I thought my own eyes would be the best judgment to what route i should go down. I do however understand that there's a lot about orgs like L3 that they don't tell you for obvious reasons, and that has put a lot of doubt into my decision in going with them.
Right now i'm just in a bit of a dilemma, as a lot of the schools I've researched I've not seen many people have anything good to say about online. Just wondering what my best, most surefire option would be considering my current situation.
Right now i'm just in a bit of a dilemma, as a lot of the schools I've researched I've not seen many people have anything good to say about online. Just wondering what my best, most surefire option would be considering my current situation.
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Wings Alliance is also a very good place to start if you need to expand your search. It's a non-profit organisation that includes recommendations for flight schools and also holds regular webinars giving brilliant, non-biased advice.
Last edited by Beaker_; 24th Mar 2024 at 12:21.
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OP, you have lots of options nearby.
There's an up-coming Pilot Careers Live event at the Sofitel Hotel in Heathrow. The tickets are cheap and it's really worth going from experience. There'll be lots of schools and airlines selling themselves to you, and maybe you'll like the sounds of some of them. The important bit is that you don't pay too much attention to the big schools with fancy marketing - like L3, Leading Edge and FTE. Instead, talk to the smaller schools, like Stapleford and Aviation South West that have good reputations for modular training. Ask any questions about flight training, costs, the graduate prospects etc, and take every freebie that they have
. FYI, don't bother with the priority tickets as you'll spend much more time in the main hall talking to all the schools than you'd think, so you'll miss the theatre talks on your first time going.
Having said that, modular is the safest option; even if thats a full-time modular course. The ideal path has been discussed here countless times by rudestuff and co., and is also suggested by Bristol Ground School. https://cdn.wingsalliance.eu/wp-cont...Costs-2023.pdf I've done a sum of flight training, landing fees, tests, equipment etc at ATOs in/near London and £60000 should be a safe number, excluding any travel and living expenses obviously. Near Heathrow, your local schools are Blackbushe, Redhill, Flight Training London in Elstree, and possibly EFG at Biggin Hill. Stapleford is an obvious shout if you're willing to travel a little further. I'd get dual-license, limiting you to FTL and Stapleford for an EASA ATO.
If you're incistent on integrated, people tend to suggest ACS Perth. It's a 'fast-tracked' modular course, like Aeros, up in Scotland that provides dual-license. Aeros is another good shout but they've gotten significantly more expensive in the past few months. Bear in mind the expenses of living away from home for these two schools.
It seems like you have a good budget, and are looking for the fastest and most fun way of getting the fATPL, so the flashy integrated schools are looking appealing (rightly so). However, it's a lot of money to be playing chicken with, and ultimately you want to set yourself up for the best possible career prospects. What happens if an integrated school suddenly folds and you're left with nothing, or if the school has significant delays and you're supposed 18 month course is closer to 24+ months, or just a poor level of training? You've given them all your money already so you're hands are tied. With modular, you can bounce after you've completed your module and look for better elsewhere, hence forcing modular schools to maintain high standards.
There's an up-coming Pilot Careers Live event at the Sofitel Hotel in Heathrow. The tickets are cheap and it's really worth going from experience. There'll be lots of schools and airlines selling themselves to you, and maybe you'll like the sounds of some of them. The important bit is that you don't pay too much attention to the big schools with fancy marketing - like L3, Leading Edge and FTE. Instead, talk to the smaller schools, like Stapleford and Aviation South West that have good reputations for modular training. Ask any questions about flight training, costs, the graduate prospects etc, and take every freebie that they have
. FYI, don't bother with the priority tickets as you'll spend much more time in the main hall talking to all the schools than you'd think, so you'll miss the theatre talks on your first time going.Having said that, modular is the safest option; even if thats a full-time modular course. The ideal path has been discussed here countless times by rudestuff and co., and is also suggested by Bristol Ground School. https://cdn.wingsalliance.eu/wp-cont...Costs-2023.pdf I've done a sum of flight training, landing fees, tests, equipment etc at ATOs in/near London and £60000 should be a safe number, excluding any travel and living expenses obviously. Near Heathrow, your local schools are Blackbushe, Redhill, Flight Training London in Elstree, and possibly EFG at Biggin Hill. Stapleford is an obvious shout if you're willing to travel a little further. I'd get dual-license, limiting you to FTL and Stapleford for an EASA ATO.
If you're incistent on integrated, people tend to suggest ACS Perth. It's a 'fast-tracked' modular course, like Aeros, up in Scotland that provides dual-license. Aeros is another good shout but they've gotten significantly more expensive in the past few months. Bear in mind the expenses of living away from home for these two schools.
It seems like you have a good budget, and are looking for the fastest and most fun way of getting the fATPL, so the flashy integrated schools are looking appealing (rightly so). However, it's a lot of money to be playing chicken with, and ultimately you want to set yourself up for the best possible career prospects. What happens if an integrated school suddenly folds and you're left with nothing, or if the school has significant delays and you're supposed 18 month course is closer to 24+ months, or just a poor level of training? You've given them all your money already so you're hands are tied. With modular, you can bounce after you've completed your module and look for better elsewhere, hence forcing modular schools to maintain high standards.
Last edited by WindyTurtle; 24th Mar 2024 at 14:13.
I'm also not a great fan of integrated.
Whichever way you go, do two things first.
(1) A class 1 medical
(2) a UK or EASA PPL.
With those behind you, you know if you can meet the medical standards, and have the aptitude and dedication to push through pilot training. The £15k for the PPL or so may be the start of your modular route, the cheapest bit of de-risking you ever spend, or a lesson that this wasn't for you, or a an entry into an amazing hobby whilst realising that you'd rather earn your living elsewhere. All of those are good outcomes.
Committing to the £90k+ of an integrated course without at-least doing the PPL and all that will teach you is not, in my opinion, a sane act.
Close to Heathrow you have three really good PPL schools. Pilot Training Centre at Denham, Booker Aviation at Wycombe Air Park, and West London Aero Club at White Waltham. I've flown with all of them and whilst I have personal opinions and preferences, I doubt very much you'd regret any of them for this critical first stage.
G
Whichever way you go, do two things first.
(1) A class 1 medical
(2) a UK or EASA PPL.
With those behind you, you know if you can meet the medical standards, and have the aptitude and dedication to push through pilot training. The £15k for the PPL or so may be the start of your modular route, the cheapest bit of de-risking you ever spend, or a lesson that this wasn't for you, or a an entry into an amazing hobby whilst realising that you'd rather earn your living elsewhere. All of those are good outcomes.
Committing to the £90k+ of an integrated course without at-least doing the PPL and all that will teach you is not, in my opinion, a sane act.
Close to Heathrow you have three really good PPL schools. Pilot Training Centre at Denham, Booker Aviation at Wycombe Air Park, and West London Aero Club at White Waltham. I've flown with all of them and whilst I have personal opinions and preferences, I doubt very much you'd regret any of them for this critical first stage.
G
