ATPL - Skyborne Aviation Training

[gemboss]

Has anyone had experience of training with Skyborne Aviation Training? My son is looking at the Integrated ATPL course and would like to hear about any experiences of the course or the training provider.

I know a lot of people advise modular over integrated, but he would prefer the structure of the integrated course and Skyborne allow the course fees to be paid in instalments rather than all upfront which is a bonus.

[Beaker_]

I have no direct experience with them, but generally feedback on this forum is very good. There's a search feature for the forum; you can use this to see previous comments

[Jordan199721]

I'm looking at using them also, I can't say I have any direct experience at the moment other than, I spoke with one of their training advisors the other day and he seemed genuine. Didn't spin me any bull****. Was realistic the the process, time scales and no. of students in hold pool etc.

[gemboss]

They do seem to have a lot of positive feedback. We're just waiting for one of their advisors to come back with answers to questions we have asked before my son makes his final decision.

[THJC]

Hi, I am a student there currently. Feel free to private message me and I'll answer any questions you have.

[Alex Whittingham]

Do you know what Skyborne's payment schedule is? There are sometimes 'pay in stages' schedules that are very front loaded. One ATO that starts the training in the US, for instance, has a schedule that leaves the school with $100K before the student has even seen an aeroplane.

[Jordan199721]

Originally Posted by Alex Whittingham

Do you know what Skyborne's payment schedule is? There are sometimes 'pay in stages' schedules that are very front loaded. One ATO that starts the training in the US, for instance, has a schedule that leaves the school with $100K before the student has even seen an aeroplane.

1 £9,000
2 £22,625 30 days prior to course commencement date
3 £22,625 90 days after course start
4 £22,625 180 days after course start
5 £22,625 270 days after course start

[Alex Whittingham]

Thank you! Assuming a 6 month groundschool phase and no delays that means that, as you finish groundschool and you make payment #4, they have £77000 of your money when you start flying. The groundschool will have cost £5k-ish or less so that's a credit balance of more than £70k. I'd like to think that Skyborne could do better. Support *pay-as-you-fly!*

[rudestuff]

Maybe that's where the regulator needs to actually do some regulating..?

[Jordan199721]

Originally Posted by Alex Whittingham

Thank you! Assuming a 6 month groundschool phase and no delays that means that, as you finish groundschool and you make payment #4, they have £77000 of your money when you start flying. The groundschool will have cost £5k-ish or less so that's a credit balance of more than £70k. I'd like to think that Skyborne could do better. Support *pay-as-you-fly!*

They do have a modular offer which supports more of a pay-as-you fly method.

Of course, both modular and integrated have their own pro’s and con’s. It’s ultimately down to the individuals circumstances as to which works best.

The only way I could see a regulator being effective is if the students money was held in some kind of trust which could only be accessed at certain parts, therefore keeping the remaining funds safe at all time.

Without that financial protection, I can’t see a regulator being very effective.

I’m honestly surprised there isn’t an insurance for it, I thought it would be a huge money spinner for insurance companies.

[ManFlex40]

Originally Posted by Alex Whittingham

Thank you! Assuming a 6 month groundschool phase and no delays that means that, as you finish groundschool and you make payment #4, they have £77000 of your money when you start flying. The groundschool will have cost £5k-ish or less so that's a credit balance of more than £70k. I'd like to think that Skyborne could do better. Support *pay-as-you-fly!*

From experience, for the Combined Modular pathway, the only thing paid up front was the ground school. The CPL, IR, APS MCC and UPRT can be paid hourly, though of course, there is the incentive to pay up front for a ‘discount.’ The sales team will negotiate this on a case by case basis.

NB- if accommodation is required, it will set you back £11K for modular students (assuming a 48 week combined modular course ATPL through to UPRT), to be paid up front.

[Alex Whittingham]

Modular pay-as-you-fly - that's good. The CAA as regulator could simply make it a condition of continued approval not to take more than £5K-ish up front.

[ManFlex40]

Originally Posted by Alex Whittingham

Modular pay-as-you-fly - that's good. The CAA as regulator could simply make it a condition of continued approval not to take more than £5K-ish up front.

Couldn’t agree more, Alex.

[parkfell]

Originally Posted by Alex Whittingham

Thank you! Assuming a 6 month groundschool phase and no delays that means that, as you finish groundschool and you make payment #4, they have £77000 of your money when you start flying. The groundschool will have cost £5k-ish or less so that's a credit balance of more than £70k. I'd like to think that Skyborne could do better. Support *pay-as-you-fly!*

The CAA need to ‘encourage’ ATOs to operate an escrow account. There would then be no real point asking for large up front payments ?

[spitfirejock]

My intel suggests the Skyborne marketing juggernaut has persuaded a significant number of students to part with most of their course cost upfront which might suggest very few people are reading this forum anymore and our efforts for PAYG becoming the industry standard are futile.

I recall the common saying after the banking crash, "the bigger they are the harder they fall", or when it comes to government having egg on their face (USA for sure), "too big to fail".

Personally, I won't have any sympathy for those who lose their money, there are plenty of warnings out there and their have been for quite some time. The student(s) who recently were persuaded to part with all the money to FTA for a 5% discount must be feeling sick, and if I was one of them I would be camping outside the owners house making his life miserable at the very least.

SJ

[Jordan199721]

Originally Posted by spitfirejock

My intel suggests the Skyborne marketing juggernaut has persuaded a significant number of students to part with most of their course cost upfront which might suggest very few people are reading this forum anymore and our efforts for PAYG becoming the industry standard are futile.

I recall the common saying after the banking crash, "the bigger they are the harder they fall", or when it comes to government having egg on their face (USA for sure), "too big to fail".

Personally, I won't have any sympathy for those who lose their money, there are plenty of warnings out there and their have been for quite some time. The student(s) who recently were persuaded to part with all the money to FTA for a 5% discount must be feeling sick, and if I was one of them I would be camping outside the owners house making his life miserable at the very least.

SJ

Ah, so no actual reference as to what the school is like to train at?

Thanks for your comment on an entirely different topic.

[spitfirejock]

You might note that this thread is on the most important topic...protection of payments, not about school quality.

Can you see any point of discussing quality of training in the current climate? FTA had a reasonably good reputation for that from what I can see. What about Leading Edge? Nobody seems to be suggesting Skyborne are delivering poor quality, I don't have any feedback or direct knowledge of that either way, hence no comment is being put forward. I note AW, a prolific contributor on this forum is making the same point.

So what is this forum really about? Would anybody truly believe anonymous opinions about the quality of a school? I don't think they should, but they do. History has shown many people use this forum to promote their school and attack other schools. What is a FACT is that schools go bust and its time to stop huge upfront payments by regulation. Failing that, nothing will change because people are either stupid or ill informed, or, as a third option, risk takers, which incidentally, is perfectly allowed in a democracy, so let the chips fall where they fall.

SJ

[Jordan199721]

If you take a look at the original comment on the post, it does ask if anyone has any experience as to what the organisation is like for training. And acknowledges that they understand the two routes, and have decided integrated suits their needs better.

I believe the focus of the post changed to the financial aspect when a question was asked regarding the payment options.

As for opinions on the quality of an ATO, I’ve had numerous current students contact me via this forum giving me their honest views of the school. I would expect ANYONE to provide an honest interpretation of the school, regardless of their position. Ultimately, if an ATO tells me they’re perfect - I know they’re bull****ting. If an ATO acknowledges they have problems, and can describe them, and can describe what they are doing to resolve those, I’m likely to be significantly more invested in listening to them.

I wholeheartedly agree there are some ATO’s that require an unnecessary amounts upfront. I further agree that the CAA must do more to “regulate” ATO’s, and more closely monitor financial standing.

However, I’m pleased to say, Skyborne does not require an unnecessary amount upfront, and has a modular option.

[Alex Whittingham]

To be fair, asking for £70K before you start flying IS an excessive amount up front and, if Skyborne are as well funded as they say they are, completely unnecessary. Please feel free to share the feedback you have on training quality. I don't hear much, but I never hear anything bad.

[PFD]

Hearing that Skyborne are selling off their US based business? Am I correct?