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UK Training Insurance

Old 1st Nov 2021, 21:12
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Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: London
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Smile UK Training Insurance

Hi all, my first post on here,

Am looking to start training towards the tail end of 2022. Having researched insurance on here it seems there are numerous places offering 'Loss of Medical' insurance.

I'm wondering if anywhere offers 'Loss of Training' insurance in the event a students ATO went bust. I'm due to pay a hefty deposit to secure my place on an intergrated course and don't want to run the risk of losing this should the school go bust before I start! Does this sort of cover exist given the tumultuous past 18 months for aviation and can anyone advise who may offer this?

Last edited by James Short; 1st Nov 2021 at 21:59.
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 21:54
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Join Date: May 1999
Location: Bristol, England
Age: 63
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One of the features of integrated schools is that they ask for all the money nearly all up front, by which I mean you have often paid 3/4 of it before you have even seen an aeroplane. As you have deduced this is a 'bad idea' from the customers' point of view. Insurance companies have a similar view and you unfortuately have zero chance of finding anyone to offer you a policy. I'm sure you have already considered this, but if not you might like to look at modular training options which are more 'pay as you go', and considerably cheaper.
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 22:26
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Thanks for the response Alex. That was my suspicion, no insurance company would want to underwrite a cost of approximately £50k accrued over just 4 months. I have been very set on the integrated route for a long time but just a little bit of reading on here is starting to dissuade me - that and being able to save a bit of money in the meantime.
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 22:35
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Burgos, Spain
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we don’t know of any insurance like the one you suggest… and we have asked several insurance companies.
I am also not sure about their reasons…
I believe checking the financial health of the school you want to sign up with would be a wise move.
We had one student that told us our financial situation was one of the reasons why she joined us… but it has been the only one that mentioned it.

in the UK, you can check Companies House for most of companies. In other countries, you may need to pay something to get that type of information (I would say between 30 an 60€ so nothing crazy)

Summarizing… your point is very interesting and should be considered more widely by more students
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 22:36
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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It may not be practical but you could consider paying with a credit card (s) in order to get some protection from the credit card company in the event of your ATO failing. I do appreciate that it's not necessarily easy to get that amount on a credit card though.
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Old 1st Nov 2021, 23:36
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Thanks for the suggestion - checking companies house was very quick and easy. Also helpful to see what the directors have done in their past lifes and see if they've been tied to any 'not so good' schools or schemes.

I work in financial services at the moment so want to be 'hedged' if you like against any unfortunate events. Seems I've got a lot of reading to do about going down the modular route.
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Old 2nd Nov 2021, 00:07
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Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: United Kingdom
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I believe chargebacks are time-limited to only a few months from the original transaction, so this may not offer that much protection...
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Old 2nd Nov 2021, 05:55
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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OvertHawk

Generally you don't need to put it all on a credit card to have section 75 protection. Paying a deposit is usually enough to render them liable for any loss.
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Old 2nd Nov 2021, 07:45
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Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: United Kingdom
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Actually, something else to chuck into the mix, I believe there's also a £30k limit on card protection.
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Old 2nd Nov 2021, 10:18
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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Just donít go integrated, it isnít what it used to be and modular is now far superior in all aspects. Thereís some fantastic modular schools that do the mep / cpl / ir modules full time over a period of about 8 weeks. All the other modules can be done from anywhere in your own time and for a fraction of the cost! One of the better ways to get though is to buy your own aircraft and do your ppl and hour building in it and then sell when the market allows. You save a fortune if you do it right.
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Old 2nd Nov 2021, 13:57
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Join Date: Nov 2021
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Some really good answers here thank you everyone. Certainly going to look in to the modular approach and see if it’s realistically possible alongside my current 9 to 5. I’ve got an Irish and British passport so hopefully some money to be saved in going abroad but not all too sure where I’d stand with licences going down that route.

Paying by credit card is a good idea however I believe the flight school required bank transfer plus I’d have to split it over a lot of credit cards considering the cost - not ideal.

Time to sift through all the modular threads on here!
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Old 2nd Nov 2021, 21:11
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
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Keep the day job throughout the whole process, it’s completely possible. PPL / hours / ATPLs can all be completed over weekends or evenings. Ask work for 8 weeks off when you see proper market recovery to do your ME / CPL / IR at somewhere like Diamond Flight Academy in Sweden or Bartolini in Poland. Then finish the mcc off when there’s an actual job to apply for. The only part that will cost you a bit is the CPL / IR part which will be roughly 20 - 25k, the rest can be earn’t as you work. Take your time there’s absolutely no rush as the market is flat and saturated with experience. Do both U.K. and EASA licences. Good luck.
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Old 3rd Nov 2021, 06:53
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
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Just because a course is modular, it doesn't mean it has to be part time. You can fly/study full time if you want to. In fact, a full time modular course is the quickest way to learn to fly - because you can progress as quickly as you want to without having to wait for everyone else to catch up!

If you want to keep working then I'd recommend going to the US for a PPL. Take 4 weeks if possible which is more than enough to complete a PPL. Then you can come home, go back to work and study the ATPLs at your own pace. There's not much point having it all planned out too much, just take each module a step at a time and reassess at each stage.

If you want training insurance, you can insure anything - you just need to find a specialist underwriter. Failing that go to Ladbrokes and ask for odds on ##### going out of business...
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Old 7th Nov 2021, 11:00
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Thanks for the reply. Seems I could certainly spend the next year getting a PPL in the UK. Unfortunately, my employer won't allow me to have more than 2 weeks off at a time. Leaning towards completing the PPL and night rating here in the UK, then committing 6 months to study and complete the ATPL's before commencing ME/CPL/IR training abroad at a school like Diamond Flight Academy.

Even going down the modular route, I'd like to complete the training full time after the PPL. The only thing that worries me is getting both CAA/EASA licenses. The integrated school I was looking at was able to provide both which was a big attraction.
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Old 7th Nov 2021, 20:01
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Join Date: May 1999
Location: Bristol, England
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You should be able to do the same with modular. As far as groundschool goes many/most of our current students are doing both sets of exams. For the flight training you appear to be no longer restricted to UK-based dual certified ATOs. The UK CAA appear to have dumped both the 'usual place of business' rule and the 'you must do your IR test in UK airspace' rule and are now approving entirely continental-based ATOs.
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Old 8th Nov 2021, 10:37
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Originally Posted by OvertHawk View Post
It may not be practical but you could consider paying with a credit card (s) in order to get some protection from the credit card company in the event of your ATO failing. I do appreciate that it's not necessarily easy to get that amount on a credit card though.
Strictly speaking, if you pay for part of a good/service with a credit card, the credit card company should cover you for the full value of the good/service if the seller/provider goes out of business.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rig...g-amrSG5y3xh7b
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