Licence Question
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Licence Question
Hi Guys, just a small question in regards to a licence issue/Brexit
If i hold a FAA PPL , EASA completed ATPLS in 2019 and a Brazilian CPL ME IR, for me to convert to an EASA CPL ME IR what is the requirements?
I am a Brazilian National with dual nationality of Italian, thus do i get reduced hours to complete the EASA CPL ME IR , or do i need to do the full hours, also can anyone recommend any schools that i can issue this question whom can get me the EASA Licence..
If i hold a FAA PPL , EASA completed ATPLS in 2019 and a Brazilian CPL ME IR, for me to convert to an EASA CPL ME IR what is the requirements?
I am a Brazilian National with dual nationality of Italian, thus do i get reduced hours to complete the EASA CPL ME IR , or do i need to do the full hours, also can anyone recommend any schools that i can issue this question whom can get me the EASA Licence..
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The requirements for conversion of an ICAO CPL/IR to an EASA CPL/IR are laid out in Commission Delegated Regulation 2020/723
https://www.easa.europa.eu/document-...ion-eu-2020723
English PDF here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...0R0723&from=EN
You don't get any "reduced hours" based on your nationality. This is irrelevant.
You'll need to do something like this (it may not be exactly the same, but as an outline):
Pick an ATO that is known for ICAO to EASA conversion. Most ATOs in Europe are more comfortable dealing with ab-initio students and don't like to or don't know how to deal with students who like you hold non-EASA flying qualifications.
When they elaborate a training plan for you, ask what they are basing it at. You don't want an ATO that makes you fly 50 multi-engine dual hours just to get business out of you. It's possible they may ask for an "assessment flight" with an instructor to see where you're at, this is reasonable.
https://www.easa.europa.eu/document-...ion-eu-2020723
English PDF here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...0R0723&from=EN
You don't get any "reduced hours" based on your nationality. This is irrelevant.
You'll need to do something like this (it may not be exactly the same, but as an outline):
- Choose the EASA MS (member state) you wish to work with. You can pick any EASA MS you want; don't go with Italy just because you're Italian. I recommend Austria and Denmark as they are efficient and pragmatic.
- Get a Class 1 Medical in an EASA AMC (Aero Medical Centre), issued by your EASA MS of choice.
- Get an EASA ELP (English Language Proficiency) certificate issued. If you go with AustroControl, they publish a list of approved ELP providers many of whom can do this test online for you.
- Have your ICAO Radio-Telephony certificate approved/converted by the EASA MS.
- Go to an EASA ATO and have them assess your case. Based on your flying experience, they will create a training programme for you. This is the "training as required by the ATO" bit, but it's sensible to have the EASA MS authority confirm to you in writing that they approve of said training programme.
- Complete the training programme and then do two skills tests: CPL(A) and ME/IR
Pick an ATO that is known for ICAO to EASA conversion. Most ATOs in Europe are more comfortable dealing with ab-initio students and don't like to or don't know how to deal with students who like you hold non-EASA flying qualifications.
When they elaborate a training plan for you, ask what they are basing it at. You don't want an ATO that makes you fly 50 multi-engine dual hours just to get business out of you. It's possible they may ask for an "assessment flight" with an instructor to see where you're at, this is reasonable.
Last edited by Central Scrutinizer; 5th May 2021 at 17:34.
"The same is not true of the EASA IR, where 'some' of the training has to take place in EASA airspace, and the EASA IR skills test HAS to take place in EASA airspace."
That applies only to IR training courses conducted at training organisations approved in third countries. This won't apply in the case of Part-FCL appx 6, Aa.8 (ICAO IR + 50 PIC IFR ---> CBM-IR).
ORA.ATO.150 Training in third countries
When the ATO is approved to provide training for the instrument rating
(IR) in third countries:
(a) the training programme shall include acclimatisation flying in one
of the Member States before the IR skill test is taken; and
(b) the IR skill test shall be taken in one of the Member States.
That applies only to IR training courses conducted at training organisations approved in third countries. This won't apply in the case of Part-FCL appx 6, Aa.8 (ICAO IR + 50 PIC IFR ---> CBM-IR).
ORA.ATO.150 Training in third countries
When the ATO is approved to provide training for the instrument rating
(IR) in third countries:
(a) the training programme shall include acclimatisation flying in one
of the Member States before the IR skill test is taken; and
(b) the IR skill test shall be taken in one of the Member States.
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Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, i'm trying to get up to speed on the conversion process.
@Central Scrutinizer - Thanks for that write up. I know your answer was pertaining to the OP, but in my case i do not have the ATPL written yet, nor a radiotelephony certificate. I suppose the written tests would be between 5 and 6. Meaning i get the written training program from an ATO and approval from a MS before i start the ground studies ? And i'd probably do the radio certificate right before flight training ?
While looking through other threads, austria comes up a few times as a preferred state. Besides being 'efficient', is there any other reason to go with them? I am an austrian citizen, but live in germany. Any reason not to do it with the germans?
I dont suppose you could recommend an ATO in austria or (southern) germany that is good with conversions? I checked out a big school near Munich and they pretty much thumb their nose at people looking for conversions.
@Central Scrutinizer - Thanks for that write up. I know your answer was pertaining to the OP, but in my case i do not have the ATPL written yet, nor a radiotelephony certificate. I suppose the written tests would be between 5 and 6. Meaning i get the written training program from an ATO and approval from a MS before i start the ground studies ? And i'd probably do the radio certificate right before flight training ?
While looking through other threads, austria comes up a few times as a preferred state. Besides being 'efficient', is there any other reason to go with them? I am an austrian citizen, but live in germany. Any reason not to do it with the germans?
I dont suppose you could recommend an ATO in austria or (southern) germany that is good with conversions? I checked out a big school near Munich and they pretty much thumb their nose at people looking for conversions.
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Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, i'm trying to get up to speed on the conversion process.
@Central Scrutinizer - Thanks for that write up. I know your answer was pertaining to the OP, but in my case i do not have the ATPL written yet, nor a radiotelephony certificate. I suppose the written tests would be between 5 and 6. Meaning i get the written training program from an ATO and approval from a MS before i start the ground studies ? And i'd probably do the radio certificate right before flight training ?
While looking through other threads, austria comes up a few times as a preferred state. Besides being 'efficient', is there any other reason to go with them? I am an austrian citizen, but live in germany. Any reason not to do it with the germans?
I dont suppose you could recommend an ATO in austria or (southern) germany that is good with conversions? I checked out a big school near Munich and they pretty much thumb their nose at people looking for conversions.
@Central Scrutinizer - Thanks for that write up. I know your answer was pertaining to the OP, but in my case i do not have the ATPL written yet, nor a radiotelephony certificate. I suppose the written tests would be between 5 and 6. Meaning i get the written training program from an ATO and approval from a MS before i start the ground studies ? And i'd probably do the radio certificate right before flight training ?
While looking through other threads, austria comes up a few times as a preferred state. Besides being 'efficient', is there any other reason to go with them? I am an austrian citizen, but live in germany. Any reason not to do it with the germans?
I dont suppose you could recommend an ATO in austria or (southern) germany that is good with conversions? I checked out a big school near Munich and they pretty much thumb their nose at people looking for conversions.
My advice is avoid Germany like the plague. Just because you live in Germany doesn't mean you need to get a German licence. AustroControl is way better. The German authority is not only slow and extremely bureaucratic (like everything has to be done by paper/post, no emails), they also ask for extra things that other authorities don't require (the bloody German ZÜP, certificate of good character which is a pain in the ass to get if you've lived in several countries). Finally I believe that if you go with German and later on decide to change your EASA MS from Germany to another country the Germans make it bloody difficult due to their data protection laws: as in they won't easily transfer your medical records making the transfer very difficult.
As for a good ATO to work with in Germany, I did it with Ardex and they were good with my training needs, but don't expect them to figure out exactly what you need to do. You need to be clear about your needs and explain these to them. This is generally the case with ATOs anyway.
