Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.

ATPL exams are not fair!

Old 29th Apr 2021, 20:47
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Paarl
Posts: 14
Genghis the Engineer

Always good to have these values committed to memory for the purpose of sanity checks. We have, however, found that the actual exams give values that differ from the ones commonly used in practice. One such example:Given: Fuel density = 0,78 kg/l Dry operating mass = 33500 kg Traffic load = 10 600 kg Maximum allowable take-off mass = 66200 kg Taxi fuel = 200 kg Tank capacity = 22 500 Litres The maximum possible take-off fuel is?

A. 17 550 kg

B. 17 350 kg

C. 21 900 kg

D. 22 100 kg


*with permission from Status Aviation - Home

Last edited by Percy van Staden; 1st May 2021 at 09:58.
Percy van Staden is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2021, 01:44
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Europe
Age: 30
Posts: 69
The ATPL exams (or any other pilot theory exams) are a bloody joke and everybody knows it.

People just go through them, forget and move on. It's frustrating to hear to the people currently doing them, but that's the best advice: suck it up, finish them as quickly as possible, then move on!
Central Scrutinizer is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2021, 01:48
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Europe
Age: 30
Posts: 69
rudestuff

That's true, but it's still a bit of a stretch to say that you can control ALTITUDE using THRUST in the FLCH mode. What's more accurate is saying that you can control VERTICAL SPEED using THRUST. As you say, indirectly by modulating the thrust, and therefore the vertical speed, you could theoretically maintain an altitude like that. But this is a retarded way to fly and nobody does this (or nobody does this intentionally at least...)
Central Scrutinizer is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2021, 01:50
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Europe
Age: 30
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by PFD View Post
After THR HOLD, if you wanted to push up the power, wouldn't you have to disarm the AT though?
No, in THR HOLD the servos are disconnected leaving the levers free for the pilot to manipulate. No need to disarm AT.
Central Scrutinizer is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2021, 07:12
  #85 (permalink)  
PFD
Ground instructor
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 87
Thank you for that. I knew that was the case on Take Off, didn’t realise it was the same in descent.
PFD is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2021, 09:27
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
Age: 43
Posts: 559
Central Scrutinizer

Agreed. You would never operate like that, I was merely trying to show that all flight modes are a combination of pitch and power and that what-controls-what depends on the FMAs at the time, and ultimately that VNAV is pretty complicated!
rudestuff is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2021, 15:06
  #87 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Commuting home
Age: 43
Posts: 3,213
Percy van Staden

Clear-cut 17350 from me. Where did I go wrong?

The incorrect answers are picked smartly on this one, btw.

Last edited by FlightDetent; 30th Apr 2021 at 15:17.
FlightDetent is offline  
Old 1st May 2021, 09:29
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Paarl
Posts: 14
Capn Bug Smasher

I respectfully differ from the point that question banks and the examination should not require "mental gymnastics".

Theory examinations have but a few hours and a one dimensional platform to test your knowledge, understanding and application of an interdisciplinary body of knowledge.(Which btw includes advanced comprehension and communication of problems using the English language.)

Some mental gymnastics will therefore be inevitable.
Percy van Staden is offline  
Old 1st May 2021, 09:34
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Paarl
Posts: 14
FlightDetent

Nothing wrong with that answer.

Plus the fact that you picked up on what we term "calculated incorrect" options shows your understanding of what is asked and the theory.

The question is aimed at teaching a specific concept and that is why you have two answers that could be correct if you are unsure about what to do with the taxi fuel.
Percy van Staden is offline  
Old 1st May 2021, 17:54
  #90 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Commuting home
Age: 43
Posts: 3,213
Percy van Staden Now you got me completely lost. At your #81 you provided that particular question as an example of what is wrong with the QB, right? If so, what is it?

Looked perfectly fine to me, and carefully crafted. All the other three answers are valid calculation results if you mix the kg / l and taxi fuel +/- not in the good way. Or not mix them at all.

Last edited by FlightDetent; 1st May 2021 at 18:07.
FlightDetent is offline  
Old 2nd May 2021, 06:00
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Europe
Posts: 1
It was never fair, so you have to find your way

I won't be surprised if the intention is to filter the people of becoming a professional pilots from the first place.
The market is so saturated with unemployed qualified pilots that every surplus will bring the industry to a deeper crisis.
After all, the CAA in every country is run by active or retired professional pilots who are well aware of the reality around them.
From the other hand, no one can stop you from trying to achieve your dream and spending your money.
funflyer1 is offline  
Old 2nd May 2021, 13:49
  #92 (permalink)  

 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 69
Posts: 3,891
Well, the original intention was to make the pilot licence the equivalent of a degree - I think the phrase was "we don't want pilots to be morons"
paco is offline  
Old 2nd May 2021, 13:59
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 343
It's a great idea but the application of the exams are a disgrace. Degrees also are not so difficult, most of them anyway. They just prove you can do your chores in time.

It would be a great idea to combine a degree with pilot training so you come out of your training with a degree and a pilots licence. That would make a lot more sense than the ATPshit exams we have now.
Negan is offline  
Old 2nd May 2021, 16:00
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,499
After all, the CAA in every country is run by active or retired professional pilots who are well aware of the reality around them.
Now that has got to take the prize for the funniest comment ever!
BillieBob is offline  
Old 2nd May 2021, 17:15
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Paarl
Posts: 14
FlightDetent, at 81 I was making the point that the CAA exams often use variables different from what you commit to memory (as is shown by the QB question aligned with CAA questions). Nothing wrong with the question itself and certainly not with the QB.
Percy van Staden is offline  
Old 2nd May 2021, 20:09
  #96 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: with bosun Blue Sky and the jenny haniver "Hot Stuff"
Posts: 91
Percy

Nah man, by "mental gymnastics" I meant "trick questions."

Plenty of call for mental gymnastics without intentionally confusing or tricking the candidate!

The FMS argument above is an example.
Capn Bug Smasher is offline  
Old 3rd May 2021, 09:15
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 1,288
Negan

We've been through this before - it's an apples and oranges thing. Degrees (indeed all level 6 quals) must involve an element of original research. That's not really appropriate for pilot qualification. The pilot quals are closer to Professional qualifications like accountants, doctors and lawyers, demonstrating absolute mastery of a specific body of knowledge and the ability that expertise accurately and reliably in a real-world situation. Note that there are degrees in accountancy, medicine and law, but you can only achieve the professional status through the professional pupilage and exams (and it can be done with or without the degrees). Heck, even engineering isn't just a matter of having the degree - a Professional Engineer (whether as a C.Eng, the European Eur Ing or the colonial PE registration) is more than just a degree.
PDR1 is offline  
Old 3rd May 2021, 09:59
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1
Introduction of KSA100

As it stands, the MCQ format as we know it is here to stay, whether one agrees with its merits or not. Itís theoretical, so anything within limits, theoretically, can happen. Therefore in my opinion, as a current Integrated ATPL student, itís imperative to understand the theory. There is no place for rote learning here. The banks should be used to supplement knowledge. I hope to find myself in the right seat after acquiring the knowledge to safely say I know what to do as a result of acquiring the theoretical knowledge and applying a common sense approach.

We need to understand the theory. Get my head around that fact and progress.
patconn21 is offline  
Old 3rd May 2021, 22:06
  #99 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 13,901
Negan

Those combined ATPL/degree programmes certainly exist in the UK and USA, I don't know about other countries.
Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Old 3rd May 2021, 22:09
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 13,901
PDR1

4 year MEng + 2 years further training, + 2 years professional practice.

Or 3 year BEng + 1 year MSc + 2 years training + 2 years practice.

A degree does not qualify somebody to practice as an engineer with any independence, any more than you'd want somebody who'd passed all the ATPL TK, but done none of the actual flying and skill tests to be in charge of a passenger aircraft.

Which to be fair, you pretty much said, I was just expanding.
Genghis the Engineer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.