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ATPL exams are not fair!

Old 30th Apr 2021, 07:12
  #81 (permalink)  
PFD
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Thank you for that. I knew that was the case on Take Off, didn’t realise it was the same in descent.
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 09:27
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Central Scrutinizer

Agreed. You would never operate like that, I was merely trying to show that all flight modes are a combination of pitch and power and that what-controls-what depends on the FMAs at the time, and ultimately that VNAV is pretty complicated!
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Old 30th Apr 2021, 15:06
  #83 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
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Percy van Staden

Clear-cut 17350 from me. Where did I go wrong?

The incorrect answers are picked smartly on this one, btw.

Last edited by FlightDetent; 30th Apr 2021 at 15:17.
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Old 1st May 2021, 09:29
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Capn Bug Smasher

I respectfully differ from the point that question banks and the examination should not require "mental gymnastics".

Theory examinations have but a few hours and a one dimensional platform to test your knowledge, understanding and application of an interdisciplinary body of knowledge.(Which btw includes advanced comprehension and communication of problems using the English language.)

Some mental gymnastics will therefore be inevitable.
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Old 1st May 2021, 09:34
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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FlightDetent

Nothing wrong with that answer.

Plus the fact that you picked up on what we term "calculated incorrect" options shows your understanding of what is asked and the theory.

The question is aimed at teaching a specific concept and that is why you have two answers that could be correct if you are unsure about what to do with the taxi fuel.
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Old 1st May 2021, 17:54
  #86 (permalink)  

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Percy van Staden Now you got me completely lost. At your #81 you provided that particular question as an example of what is wrong with the QB, right? If so, what is it?

Looked perfectly fine to me, and carefully crafted. All the other three answers are valid calculation results if you mix the kg / l and taxi fuel +/- not in the good way. Or not mix them at all.

Last edited by FlightDetent; 1st May 2021 at 18:07.
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Old 2nd May 2021, 06:00
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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It was never fair, so you have to find your way

I won't be surprised if the intention is to filter the people of becoming a professional pilots from the first place.
The market is so saturated with unemployed qualified pilots that every surplus will bring the industry to a deeper crisis.
After all, the CAA in every country is run by active or retired professional pilots who are well aware of the reality around them.
From the other hand, no one can stop you from trying to achieve your dream and spending your money.
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Old 2nd May 2021, 13:49
  #88 (permalink)  

 
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Well, the original intention was to make the pilot licence the equivalent of a degree - I think the phrase was "we don't want pilots to be morons"
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Old 2nd May 2021, 13:59
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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It's a great idea but the application of the exams are a disgrace. Degrees also are not so difficult, most of them anyway. They just prove you can do your chores in time.

It would be a great idea to combine a degree with pilot training so you come out of your training with a degree and a pilots licence. That would make a lot more sense than the ATPshit exams we have now.
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Old 2nd May 2021, 16:00
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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After all, the CAA in every country is run by active or retired professional pilots who are well aware of the reality around them.
Now that has got to take the prize for the funniest comment ever!
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Old 2nd May 2021, 17:15
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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FlightDetent, at 81 I was making the point that the CAA exams often use variables different from what you commit to memory (as is shown by the QB question aligned with CAA questions). Nothing wrong with the question itself and certainly not with the QB.
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Old 2nd May 2021, 20:09
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Percy

Nah man, by "mental gymnastics" I meant "trick questions."

Plenty of call for mental gymnastics without intentionally confusing or tricking the candidate!

The FMS argument above is an example.
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Old 3rd May 2021, 09:15
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Negan

We've been through this before - it's an apples and oranges thing. Degrees (indeed all level 6 quals) must involve an element of original research. That's not really appropriate for pilot qualification. The pilot quals are closer to Professional qualifications like accountants, doctors and lawyers, demonstrating absolute mastery of a specific body of knowledge and the ability that expertise accurately and reliably in a real-world situation. Note that there are degrees in accountancy, medicine and law, but you can only achieve the professional status through the professional pupilage and exams (and it can be done with or without the degrees). Heck, even engineering isn't just a matter of having the degree - a Professional Engineer (whether as a C.Eng, the European Eur Ing or the colonial PE registration) is more than just a degree.
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Old 3rd May 2021, 09:59
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Introduction of KSA100

As it stands, the MCQ format as we know it is here to stay, whether one agrees with its merits or not. Itís theoretical, so anything within limits, theoretically, can happen. Therefore in my opinion, as a current Integrated ATPL student, itís imperative to understand the theory. There is no place for rote learning here. The banks should be used to supplement knowledge. I hope to find myself in the right seat after acquiring the knowledge to safely say I know what to do as a result of acquiring the theoretical knowledge and applying a common sense approach.

We need to understand the theory. Get my head around that fact and progress.
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Old 3rd May 2021, 22:06
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Negan

Those combined ATPL/degree programmes certainly exist in the UK and USA, I don't know about other countries.
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Old 3rd May 2021, 22:09
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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PDR1

4 year MEng + 2 years further training, + 2 years professional practice.

Or 3 year BEng + 1 year MSc + 2 years training + 2 years practice.

A degree does not qualify somebody to practice as an engineer with any independence, any more than you'd want somebody who'd passed all the ATPL TK, but done none of the actual flying and skill tests to be in charge of a passenger aircraft.

Which to be fair, you pretty much said, I was just expanding.
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Old 3rd May 2021, 22:45
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Absolutely, although those definitions of C.Eng are rather out of date - there is no proscriptive definition of the time required in further training or professional practice, merely a specification for the competences that must have been exhibited (this is where CEng and PE diverge). Also the degree is not mandatory - it is the "standard route". The standard requires "Underpinning knowledge and understanding to the level of an MSc supported by a BSc" but it allows that UK&U to be achieved and evidenced in ways other than the actual degree(s). That is the "individual route" (in that it requires individual assessment of evidence rather than acceptance of a standard qualification).

The last time I had the query run was 2 years ago, but it suggested that of the registrations between 1990 and 2018 only 20% were achieved by the standard route. There was a time when you could sit the Engineering Council exam as a means of verifying UK&U, but I believe that was formally terminated in 2011.
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