CAE Oxford Start Dates
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CAE Oxford Start Dates
Have any other confirmed Whitetail ATPL candidates been promised starting dates at Oxford, only for them to retract the dates and offer something else? I (and many others by the sound of it) were all but confirmed to be starting on the April course, only to be told today that the next available ATPL start dates are not until August/ September 2020. It looks like they are just prioritising the airline programmes, despite the lady on the phone saying that this wasn't the case. Frustrating!
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Have any other confirmed Whitetail ATPL candidates been promised starting dates at Oxford, only for them to retract the dates and offer something else? I (and many others by the sound of it) were all but confirmed to be starting on the April course, only to be told today that the next available ATPL start dates are not until August/ September 2020. It looks like they are just prioritising the airline programmes, despite the lady on the phone saying that this wasn't the case. Frustrating!
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Exactly the same for me, I guess you got the same email, but the lady on the other end of the phone promised that the earlier spaces weren’t reserved for airline programmes, despite the email saying exactly that
Have any other confirmed Whitetail ATPL candidates been promised starting dates at Oxford, only for them to retract the dates and offer something else? I (and many others by the sound of it) were all but confirmed to be starting on the April course, only to be told today that the next available ATPL start dates are not until August/ September 2020. It looks like they are just prioritising the airline programmes, despite the lady on the phone saying that this wasn't the case. Frustrating!
Sounds harsh but that’s 100% what’s happening here. And don’t think the shafting will stop once you start... Take a look how CTC (disguised as L3) are treating their white tails at the moment.
Last edited by VariablePitchP; 11th Feb 2020 at 10:22.
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Go elsewhere, they’re 100% prioritising airline cadets, and why wouldn’t they. They know that you’re still going to pay them and won’t complain because you’ll be afraid that you'll get a bad report which looks bad to the airlines if you kick off. If you were them why on Earth would you prioritise whitetail over airline cadets who have the backing of a commercially important airline.
Sounds harsh but thanks 100% what’s happening here. And don’t think the shafting will stop once you start... Take a look how CTC (disguised as L3) are treating their white tails at the moment.
Sounds harsh but thanks 100% what’s happening here. And don’t think the shafting will stop once you start... Take a look how CTC (disguised as L3) are treating their white tails at the moment.
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There are delays at a few of these training schools due to a lack of Instructors and they simply can't cope with the present demand. Airline tagged schemes are also suffering by the way. Just look at the situations vacant pages on their respective websites and in Flight Training News where you will notice there is a general shortage of Flight and TKI Instructors. At least they are delaying your start date before you are forced to sit and wait for months during your course untill a slot is available for you to complete it. I do think these schools should do the right thing and come clean with you as to the correct reason you are facing these delays however.
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Yes, I was thinking of going down the modular route, this is the second time that my start date has been pushed back. Poor form to hold assessment days with no warning that you may well not get a space for a year. But, like you said, what can you do? It was amusing to listen to the lady on the phone claim that they weren't prioritising the airline programmes, despite the email saying "Our earlier start dates across all locations in Europe are currently reserved for our upcoming airline programmes". CAE haven't wildly impressed me as a company so far. And, from the sounds of it, it sounds like there's problems wherever you go. Back to square one I guess
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6 months is fair enough, that's what I was originally offered more-or-less. Passed in Nov 2019, offered a place in April 2020. What's more annoying though, is that I turned down a definite spot in Feburary in Madrid, on the basis that there would be spaces in April like was offered.
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There were major issues with instructor shortages a couple of years ago. IR instructors had 10 students at a point. VFR training was quoted as taking 22 weeks. It took 30 weeks. IR training should have taken 12 weeks. It took 20 weeks. I don’t know the situation now, but that was at the start of the instructor exodus. I heard that to mitigate this they were giving students hefty periods of leave between training stages. To alleviate the flow.
But, like it’s been mentioned above, at least they have the common sense to delay start dates to a point where at least some training continuity can be maintained.
As opposed to starting people next month, then having a few months gap between ground school and VFR training due to lack of instructors. Then a few months gap between VFR and IR training due to lack of IR instructors, etc. All of which lead
to a course taking well in excess of 20 months to complete.
As it’s also been mentioned, I can’t imagine they’d have much to lose by admitting that they have to prioritise the airline courses. The likes of EZY get cheaper rates on CAE/L3 sims, in return for running “sponsored schemes” through their respective schools. The airline loves is because they get cheaper sim slots, and a constant flow of young, motivated cadets. The school especially love it because the can talk about “airline placement” statistics, and how about X amount of students walked straight into airline jobs. This brings more people through the door, meaning more money. And the student loves it because they get their job at the end. Everyone’s a winner! So it makes very obvious business sense to prioritise airline cadet schemes, which I can’t argue with.
But, like it’s been mentioned above, at least they have the common sense to delay start dates to a point where at least some training continuity can be maintained.
As opposed to starting people next month, then having a few months gap between ground school and VFR training due to lack of instructors. Then a few months gap between VFR and IR training due to lack of IR instructors, etc. All of which lead
to a course taking well in excess of 20 months to complete.
As it’s also been mentioned, I can’t imagine they’d have much to lose by admitting that they have to prioritise the airline courses. The likes of EZY get cheaper rates on CAE/L3 sims, in return for running “sponsored schemes” through their respective schools. The airline loves is because they get cheaper sim slots, and a constant flow of young, motivated cadets. The school especially love it because the can talk about “airline placement” statistics, and how about X amount of students walked straight into airline jobs. This brings more people through the door, meaning more money. And the student loves it because they get their job at the end. Everyone’s a winner! So it makes very obvious business sense to prioritise airline cadet schemes, which I can’t argue with.
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Exactly! Either go modular you will save yourself so much time and money! You will have just an equal chance of job prospects as modular is more widely accepted like BA recently had a modular pilot recruitment drive. Or like others have said go choose a different flight school such as FTE Jerez or Aviation South West where you will be more looked after and less likely to be delayed.
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I wasn’t trying to insult but sadly it is the harsh reality of the “big training schools” in the UK. A lot of places are good for modular for example Aviation South West do a Direct to First Officer programme which is a modular course but done in the same time frame as integrated. FTA global down south are good for modular as well and they also offer a similar course.
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As a recent graduate of CAE, I give you all a word of warning.
You will be meaningless to them.
Management is hell-bent on maximizing 'efficiency' and cutting costs wherever possible, even down to the point of buying charity shop equivalent marker pens which would break mid-lesson while the instructors were using them.
If they are cutting costs to this extent, you can only imagine how they are cutting costs elsewhere.
Management has been taking an extreme surplus of students for years, and are only now beginning to see that they simply do not have the resources to cope. Phoenix is completely crammed, and management's solution to this was to double the number of cadets placed into one apartment so that they could continue to maximize the number of students they could push through the system. They did not account for aircraft numbers, however, and the delays in Phoenix are extreme due to the fact there are simply not enough resources.
Due to the extreme surplus of students, there are currently 80+ students in the graduate pool and this number is increasing each week. With CAE currently having zero partnered schemes which are taking cadets, all graduates are left to their own devices when it comes to finding work. I chose an integrated program because of the graduate opportunities I thought would be available. With zero opportunities available through CAE, I regret not saving a huge amount of money and choosing a modular path.
The entirety of my training was poor with zero thought given to the student. The vast majority of cadets agree with my sentiments, however we are all scared to voice our opinions due to the belief that CAE would limit our job opportunities if we were to do such. With zero opportunities now available, my absolute disgust has reached its peak.
Please stay away from CAE.
Regards,
Phillip
You will be meaningless to them.
Management is hell-bent on maximizing 'efficiency' and cutting costs wherever possible, even down to the point of buying charity shop equivalent marker pens which would break mid-lesson while the instructors were using them.
If they are cutting costs to this extent, you can only imagine how they are cutting costs elsewhere.
Management has been taking an extreme surplus of students for years, and are only now beginning to see that they simply do not have the resources to cope. Phoenix is completely crammed, and management's solution to this was to double the number of cadets placed into one apartment so that they could continue to maximize the number of students they could push through the system. They did not account for aircraft numbers, however, and the delays in Phoenix are extreme due to the fact there are simply not enough resources.
Due to the extreme surplus of students, there are currently 80+ students in the graduate pool and this number is increasing each week. With CAE currently having zero partnered schemes which are taking cadets, all graduates are left to their own devices when it comes to finding work. I chose an integrated program because of the graduate opportunities I thought would be available. With zero opportunities available through CAE, I regret not saving a huge amount of money and choosing a modular path.
The entirety of my training was poor with zero thought given to the student. The vast majority of cadets agree with my sentiments, however we are all scared to voice our opinions due to the belief that CAE would limit our job opportunities if we were to do such. With zero opportunities now available, my absolute disgust has reached its peak.
Please stay away from CAE.
Regards,
Phillip
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As a recent graduate of CAE, I give you all a word of warning.
You will be meaningless to them.
Management is hell-bent on maximizing 'efficiency' and cutting costs wherever possible, even down to the point of buying charity shop equivalent marker pens which would break mid-lesson while the instructors were using them.
If they are cutting costs to this extent, you can only imagine how they are cutting costs elsewhere.
Management has been taking an extreme surplus of students for years, and are only now beginning to see that they simply do not have the resources to cope. Phoenix is completely crammed, and management's solution to this was to double the number of cadets placed into one apartment so that they could continue to maximize the number of students they could push through the system. They did not account for aircraft numbers, however, and the delays in Phoenix are extreme due to the fact there are simply not enough resources.
Due to the extreme surplus of students, there are currently 80+ students in the graduate pool and this number is increasing each week. With CAE currently having zero partnered schemes which are taking cadets, all graduates are left to their own devices when it comes to finding work. I chose an integrated program because of the graduate opportunities I thought would be available. With zero opportunities available through CAE, I regret not saving a huge amount of money and choosing a modular path.
The entirety of my training was poor with zero thought given to the student. The vast majority of cadets agree with my sentiments, however we are all scared to voice our opinions due to the belief that CAE would limit our job opportunities if we were to do such. With zero opportunities now available, my absolute disgust has reached its peak.
Please stay away from CAE.
Regards,
Phillip
You will be meaningless to them.
Management is hell-bent on maximizing 'efficiency' and cutting costs wherever possible, even down to the point of buying charity shop equivalent marker pens which would break mid-lesson while the instructors were using them.
If they are cutting costs to this extent, you can only imagine how they are cutting costs elsewhere.
Management has been taking an extreme surplus of students for years, and are only now beginning to see that they simply do not have the resources to cope. Phoenix is completely crammed, and management's solution to this was to double the number of cadets placed into one apartment so that they could continue to maximize the number of students they could push through the system. They did not account for aircraft numbers, however, and the delays in Phoenix are extreme due to the fact there are simply not enough resources.
Due to the extreme surplus of students, there are currently 80+ students in the graduate pool and this number is increasing each week. With CAE currently having zero partnered schemes which are taking cadets, all graduates are left to their own devices when it comes to finding work. I chose an integrated program because of the graduate opportunities I thought would be available. With zero opportunities available through CAE, I regret not saving a huge amount of money and choosing a modular path.
The entirety of my training was poor with zero thought given to the student. The vast majority of cadets agree with my sentiments, however we are all scared to voice our opinions due to the belief that CAE would limit our job opportunities if we were to do such. With zero opportunities now available, my absolute disgust has reached its peak.
Please stay away from CAE.
Regards,
Phillip
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As a recent graduate of CAE, I give you all a word of warning.
You will be meaningless to them.
Management is hell-bent on maximizing 'efficiency' and cutting costs wherever possible, even down to the point of buying charity shop equivalent marker pens which would break mid-lesson while the instructors were using them.
If they are cutting costs to this extent, you can only imagine how they are cutting costs elsewhere.
Management has been taking an extreme surplus of students for years, and are only now beginning to see that they simply do not have the resources to cope. Phoenix is completely crammed, and management's solution to this was to double the number of cadets placed into one apartment so that they could continue to maximize the number of students they could push through the system. They did not account for aircraft numbers, however, and the delays in Phoenix are extreme due to the fact there are simply not enough resources.
Due to the extreme surplus of students, there are currently 80+ students in the graduate pool and this number is increasing each week. With CAE currently having zero partnered schemes which are taking cadets, all graduates are left to their own devices when it comes to finding work. I chose an integrated program because of the graduate opportunities I thought would be available. With zero opportunities available through CAE, I regret not saving a huge amount of money and choosing a modular path.
The entirety of my training was poor with zero thought given to the student. The vast majority of cadets agree with my sentiments, however we are all scared to voice our opinions due to the belief that CAE would limit our job opportunities if we were to do such. With zero opportunities now available, my absolute disgust has reached its peak.
Please stay away from CAE.
Regards,
Phillip
You will be meaningless to them.
Management is hell-bent on maximizing 'efficiency' and cutting costs wherever possible, even down to the point of buying charity shop equivalent marker pens which would break mid-lesson while the instructors were using them.
If they are cutting costs to this extent, you can only imagine how they are cutting costs elsewhere.
Management has been taking an extreme surplus of students for years, and are only now beginning to see that they simply do not have the resources to cope. Phoenix is completely crammed, and management's solution to this was to double the number of cadets placed into one apartment so that they could continue to maximize the number of students they could push through the system. They did not account for aircraft numbers, however, and the delays in Phoenix are extreme due to the fact there are simply not enough resources.
Due to the extreme surplus of students, there are currently 80+ students in the graduate pool and this number is increasing each week. With CAE currently having zero partnered schemes which are taking cadets, all graduates are left to their own devices when it comes to finding work. I chose an integrated program because of the graduate opportunities I thought would be available. With zero opportunities available through CAE, I regret not saving a huge amount of money and choosing a modular path.
The entirety of my training was poor with zero thought given to the student. The vast majority of cadets agree with my sentiments, however we are all scared to voice our opinions due to the belief that CAE would limit our job opportunities if we were to do such. With zero opportunities now available, my absolute disgust has reached its peak.
Please stay away from CAE.
Regards,
Phillip
I would be interested in learning more about your experience. You say there are no partnered schemes but what about the generation Easyjet cadets - they make up a huge amount of the students.
I speak to a couple of students at groundschool in Oxford and while they say the admin side isn't great - the instructors have been excellent which I think is important.
Overcapacity at Phoenix has definitely been an issue from what I have heard and I think they are setting up some more locations to deal with the backlog.
I certainty don't want to take anything away from your experience but we need to be mindful that future students like myself look at these posts and make decisions based on them.
Have you had any luck with finding a job since qualifying?
Thanks,
Hi Phillip,
I would be interested in learning more about your experience. You say there are no partnered schemes but what about the generation Easyjet cadets - they make up a huge amount of the students.
I speak to a couple of students at groundschool in Oxford and while they say the admin side isn't great - the instructors have been excellent which I think is important.
Overcapacity at Phoenix has definitely been an issue from what I have heard and I think they are setting up some more locations to deal with the backlog.
I certainty don't want to take anything away from your experience but we need to be mindful that future students like myself look at these posts and make decisions based on them.
Have you had any luck with finding a job since qualifying?
Thanks,
I would be interested in learning more about your experience. You say there are no partnered schemes but what about the generation Easyjet cadets - they make up a huge amount of the students.
I speak to a couple of students at groundschool in Oxford and while they say the admin side isn't great - the instructors have been excellent which I think is important.
Overcapacity at Phoenix has definitely been an issue from what I have heard and I think they are setting up some more locations to deal with the backlog.
I certainty don't want to take anything away from your experience but we need to be mindful that future students like myself look at these posts and make decisions based on them.
Have you had any luck with finding a job since qualifying?
Thanks,
‘Generation Easyjet’ cadets have a place before the course so they shouldn’t count as placed, although they will be included in the stats. Always worth asking out of how many successfully placed students, how many already had a job when they started...
