Post-grad moves: would love thoughts!
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Post-grad moves: would love thoughts!
Hey everyone,
I'm 32 years old and entering an integrated FO program here in Europe in March 2020. If all goes well, I will graduate as 2021 closes. I've spent the past month reading through many forums here, spanning both advice to noobs as well conversations pertaining to those already in the field (familiarize with lingo, why certain career choices are made vs others, etc).
What I would love to gather insight and opinions on would be the following:
1. As a 34 year old FO, I'm curious as to what the differences are between the following career trajectories: a) you build 2-3k hours and look to go long haul anywhere in the world as quickly as possible and b) you hope you land a decent first gig, stay there until you land left seat then build PIC hours before going elsewhere (considering many are looking for under 45 years of age for certain moves).
Maybe there are inherent advantages to going long haul as soon as possible at my age; maybe there aren't. Again, would love to hear thoughts on pros or cons to better understand WHY people choose one leap vs other kinds of build and leaps.
2. It seems no matter which airline I read about on this forum, there's more negatives than positives being expressed. Naturally that goes with the territory on forums because when you're happy/content, you rarely spend time on a forum talking "venting" happiness. With that being said... what are your opinions on the best airlines to fly for in the world at present day? I've read nice things about Delta, Air Canada, Ryanair quite mixed opinions - seems to be great to get in and build hours and more about what you use the opportunity start for.
Thanks in advance for any and all opinions! Much appreciated.
I'm 32 years old and entering an integrated FO program here in Europe in March 2020. If all goes well, I will graduate as 2021 closes. I've spent the past month reading through many forums here, spanning both advice to noobs as well conversations pertaining to those already in the field (familiarize with lingo, why certain career choices are made vs others, etc).
What I would love to gather insight and opinions on would be the following:
1. As a 34 year old FO, I'm curious as to what the differences are between the following career trajectories: a) you build 2-3k hours and look to go long haul anywhere in the world as quickly as possible and b) you hope you land a decent first gig, stay there until you land left seat then build PIC hours before going elsewhere (considering many are looking for under 45 years of age for certain moves).
Maybe there are inherent advantages to going long haul as soon as possible at my age; maybe there aren't. Again, would love to hear thoughts on pros or cons to better understand WHY people choose one leap vs other kinds of build and leaps.
2. It seems no matter which airline I read about on this forum, there's more negatives than positives being expressed. Naturally that goes with the territory on forums because when you're happy/content, you rarely spend time on a forum talking "venting" happiness. With that being said... what are your opinions on the best airlines to fly for in the world at present day? I've read nice things about Delta, Air Canada, Ryanair quite mixed opinions - seems to be great to get in and build hours and more about what you use the opportunity start for.
Thanks in advance for any and all opinions! Much appreciated.
Firstly, why integrated?
You mention airlines in Ireland, Canada and the US - they all require different licences, not to mention the right to live and work there. Making the wild assumption that you can work in the US - an integrated EASA course is definitely NOT the thing to do - you can get an FAA licence for a third of the price in a third of the time.
The unwritten rule is you accept the first job you're offered because it may be your last. You might get lucky and go straight to a 737, or you could end up on a king air - then it's a lot more stepping stones to get where you want to be.
Lifestyle is very important: just because you want long haul now doesn't mean you will in 5 years. If you get a wife and kids you'll probably want to sleep in your own bed every night, which means short haul. Of course you might hate the bitch and want to go long haul even more.
The most important lesson in aviation is that things change. Economies change, plans change and whatever you plan now probably won't happen, trust me!
The name of the game for most is to get a command. Command means hours. That means going to an airline that flies you 900 hours a year. Great as an FO, **** as a Captain. Flying 300 hours a year is a great place to be a captain, but **** for an FO looking to become one!
You mention airlines in Ireland, Canada and the US - they all require different licences, not to mention the right to live and work there. Making the wild assumption that you can work in the US - an integrated EASA course is definitely NOT the thing to do - you can get an FAA licence for a third of the price in a third of the time.
The unwritten rule is you accept the first job you're offered because it may be your last. You might get lucky and go straight to a 737, or you could end up on a king air - then it's a lot more stepping stones to get where you want to be.
Lifestyle is very important: just because you want long haul now doesn't mean you will in 5 years. If you get a wife and kids you'll probably want to sleep in your own bed every night, which means short haul. Of course you might hate the bitch and want to go long haul even more.
The most important lesson in aviation is that things change. Economies change, plans change and whatever you plan now probably won't happen, trust me!
The name of the game for most is to get a command. Command means hours. That means going to an airline that flies you 900 hours a year. Great as an FO, **** as a Captain. Flying 300 hours a year is a great place to be a captain, but **** for an FO looking to become one!
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Hey Rudestuff,
Apologies if that wasn't clear. I'm a US citizen but have been living in Europe for 5 years, soon to receive citizenship. I'm aware the EASA license won't work for FAA, benefit here though is that I don't need 1500hrs and my school has some good agreements with airlines to help support getting that coveted first job.
Your response was very informative though. Helps me to get a better understanding of the "why" behind certain moves or declining moves, etc. Much appreciated!
Apologies if that wasn't clear. I'm a US citizen but have been living in Europe for 5 years, soon to receive citizenship. I'm aware the EASA license won't work for FAA, benefit here though is that I don't need 1500hrs and my school has some good agreements with airlines to help support getting that coveted first job.
Your response was very informative though. Helps me to get a better understanding of the "why" behind certain moves or declining moves, etc. Much appreciated!
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Hey everyone,
2. It seems no matter which airline I read about on this forum, there's more negatives than positives being expressed. Naturally that goes with the territory on forums because when you're happy/content, you rarely spend time on a forum talking "venting" happiness. With that being said... what are your opinions on the best airlines to fly for in the world at present day? I've read nice things about Delta, Air Canada, Ryanair quite mixed opinions - seems to be great to get in and build hours and more about what you use the opportunity start for.
2. It seems no matter which airline I read about on this forum, there's more negatives than positives being expressed. Naturally that goes with the territory on forums because when you're happy/content, you rarely spend time on a forum talking "venting" happiness. With that being said... what are your opinions on the best airlines to fly for in the world at present day? I've read nice things about Delta, Air Canada, Ryanair quite mixed opinions - seems to be great to get in and build hours and more about what you use the opportunity start for.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
As with all answers, "it depends". For the US majors, you'll need a 4 year college degree and a lot of quality hours. I know American Airlines is taking pilots from their regionals such as PSA etc, but you'll still need 1500 hours to get a look-in. I have a friend in AA who's played the seniority game to ensure a biddable roster and a reasonable lifestyle. They don't need "command" per se as they'd had a fantastic career in the Air Force and they got all the command time they wanted there.
Many suggest going long haul early, before age and family kicks in. Jet lag is a lot easier to deal with when you're younger. Although at 34 you're starting to get to the back end of the drag curve WRT age and ability to easily cope with disrupted sleep. However, a couple of long haul trips a month versus being worked flat out 800-900 hours a year short haul, well, maybe they can cope a bit better. Needless to say, you need to try it before you discount it - if you have that opportunity.
Living at or near home/in your own country has a lot going for it. Whilst the Middle East and China pay a lot, you're not home, you're a guest in that country and things can go wrong for you pretty quickly if you fall foul of that state's laws and customs. You might love it, but your future partner could very well hate it - assuming you're not planning on being single for the rest of life.
Keep a weather eye on the economy, you might have to lower your sights to "anything with an engine and wings" versus long haul or short haul. If you're lucky, you'll get the job you want, with options to go long or short haul and the company won't collapse just as you sign for that mortgage.
Right now, your job is to do the best you can academically, aim for solid passes and good flight test passes too. Don't stuff up the medical either.
Like any flight plan when you can't get a current forecast for the destination, carry 2 alternates and a lot of fuel!
Many suggest going long haul early, before age and family kicks in. Jet lag is a lot easier to deal with when you're younger. Although at 34 you're starting to get to the back end of the drag curve WRT age and ability to easily cope with disrupted sleep. However, a couple of long haul trips a month versus being worked flat out 800-900 hours a year short haul, well, maybe they can cope a bit better. Needless to say, you need to try it before you discount it - if you have that opportunity.
Living at or near home/in your own country has a lot going for it. Whilst the Middle East and China pay a lot, you're not home, you're a guest in that country and things can go wrong for you pretty quickly if you fall foul of that state's laws and customs. You might love it, but your future partner could very well hate it - assuming you're not planning on being single for the rest of life.
Keep a weather eye on the economy, you might have to lower your sights to "anything with an engine and wings" versus long haul or short haul. If you're lucky, you'll get the job you want, with options to go long or short haul and the company won't collapse just as you sign for that mortgage.
Right now, your job is to do the best you can academically, aim for solid passes and good flight test passes too. Don't stuff up the medical either.
Like any flight plan when you can't get a current forecast for the destination, carry 2 alternates and a lot of fuel!
