AFTA, Simtech, VA or any other school for APS MCC
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 16
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From: München
No exclusivity anymore for a certain school
The first approved APS MCC partner must have done a terrible job.
Congrats on losing your exclusivity, S... u
What about Simtech? Do they also jump on the train?
Still don't get it with APS. Only advantage I see is on operator's side to reduce TR or line training
Congrats on losing your exclusivity, S... u
What about Simtech? Do they also jump on the train?
Still don't get it with APS. Only advantage I see is on operator's side to reduce TR or line training
de minimus non curat lex
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,510
Likes: 7
From: sunny troon
The main advantage is using RYR SOPs during the MCC, making a smoother transitional on the type rating course.
Not having to "unlearn" certain techniques / calls. Quicker learning all round. No reduction in TR or LT. Just all round easier for all concerned.
Not having to "unlearn" certain techniques / calls. Quicker learning all round. No reduction in TR or LT. Just all round easier for all concerned.
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 38
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From: Poland
Well I believe the advantage is getting a guaranteed call from Ryanair for the final assessment plus learning a lot that will be useful later on if getting a job at Ryanair or at least at some other airline with 737-800 NG if not successful at the final Ryanair assessment. Plus at other airlines where there is a wide choice of aircraft that can be offered as for example at LOT Polish Airlines from the airline point of view it could be probably more useful to send the cadet on 737 TR than for example on Dash TR since the cadet is already prepared for 737. If someone does not aim at Ryanair they can still do the casual APS MCC at VA. I am very happy that I can now choose official Ryanair assessment not only at Sky4u and AFTA (no info about the course there).
What I wonder about is if its VA or Ryanair who decided/designed the extra assessment before APS MCC. Since there is no info about it on VA website. So I wonder if its something simple like the Ryanair online pre assessment or if its something extra that only candidates applying for VA APS MCC have to pass. Because it would not be fun if it was something like the German DLR where you have to use a lot of time to prepare things not relevant to flying (according to the thread describing the DLR).
What I wonder about is if its VA or Ryanair who decided/designed the extra assessment before APS MCC. Since there is no info about it on VA website. So I wonder if its something simple like the Ryanair online pre assessment or if its something extra that only candidates applying for VA APS MCC have to pass. Because it would not be fun if it was something like the German DLR where you have to use a lot of time to prepare things not relevant to flying (according to the thread describing the DLR).
Joined: Apr 2018
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,817
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From: United Kingdom
KT1988 "it could be probably more useful to send the cadet on 737 TR than for example on Dash TR since the cadet is already prepared for 737."
It does not work like that. I did my MCC on a 737 ages ago, and have since never done anything in a 737. Before RYR used to charge 300 Euros for an assessment, now they probably take a much larger cut if they have agreed some deal with an APC MCC FTO.
Another sucker is born every minute, who is willing to spend silly money to try to secure themselves an interview.
It does not work like that. I did my MCC on a 737 ages ago, and have since never done anything in a 737. Before RYR used to charge 300 Euros for an assessment, now they probably take a much larger cut if they have agreed some deal with an APC MCC FTO.
Another sucker is born every minute, who is willing to spend silly money to try to secure themselves an interview.
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Marseille
KT1988 "it could be probably more useful to send the cadet on 737 TR than for example on Dash TR since the cadet is already prepared for 737."
It does not work like that. I did my MCC on a 737 ages ago, and have since never done anything in a 737. Before RYR used to charge 300 Euros for an assessment, now they probably take a much larger cut if they have agreed some deal with an APC MCC FTO.
Another sucker is born every minute, who is willing to spend silly money to try to secure themselves an interview.
It does not work like that. I did my MCC on a 737 ages ago, and have since never done anything in a 737. Before RYR used to charge 300 Euros for an assessment, now they probably take a much larger cut if they have agreed some deal with an APC MCC FTO.
Another sucker is born every minute, who is willing to spend silly money to try to secure themselves an interview.
And by the way I completed my MCC and I got an immediate call from Ryanair and Easyjet. Too funny. I'll decide for Easyjet of course. Ryanair is unreliable. First they partner with a dubious flight school and then they start cooperation with 2 other flight schools. Strange. If they change their mind so fast with their crews too it's not my company.
Good luck to you all
Joined: Apr 2018
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,817
Likes: 276
From: United Kingdom
They still charge you for the screening. I think it's higher now like 400 euros or so.
And by the way I completed my MCC and I got an immediate call from Ryanair and Easyjet. Too funny. I'll decide for Easyjet of course. Ryanair is unreliable. First they partner with a dubious flight school and then they start cooperation with 2 other flight schools. Strange. If they change their mind so fast with their crews too it's not my company.
Good luck to you all
And by the way I completed my MCC and I got an immediate call from Ryanair and Easyjet. Too funny. I'll decide for Easyjet of course. Ryanair is unreliable. First they partner with a dubious flight school and then they start cooperation with 2 other flight schools. Strange. If they change their mind so fast with their crews too it's not my company.
Good luck to you all
I have never heard of anyone not getting an assessment with Ryanair when they have applied, sure they might need to wait 2 - 3 months or maybe more, but paying an additional 5000 - 6000 Euros, to maybe guarantee you an interview, shows that something is wrong in the industry.
There was many years ago a course CTC used to run, if you passed the assessment you would do something similar an advanced MCC/JOC course, and you would be put in the hold pool for an airline. Basically it was a waiting list to start with the company, but of course nothing was guaranteed. But at least you had passed the primary selection when you commenced this course, not just waiting for an interview.
Normally 70 - 90% of the people who are interviewed don't even get to the Sim session, so by doing this APS, your focus is on the second part of the assessment, which you might not even reach if you can't perform during the interview and group work if they have this.
de minimus non curat lex
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,510
Likes: 7
From: sunny troon
I would say you have gone with the better of the 2 choices.
Normally 70 - 90% of the people who are interviewed don't even get to the Sim session, so by doing this APS, your focus is on the second part of the assessment, which you might not even reach if you can't perform during the interview and group work if they have this.
Normally 70 - 90% of the people who are interviewed don't even get to the Sim session, so by doing this APS, your focus is on the second part of the assessment, which you might not even reach if you can't perform during the interview and group work if they have this.
And for integrated courses there is plenty material on line to prepare for the aptitude testing etc. Anyone who cannot achieve an extremely high score on these haven't prepared well enough. It is turning into a hoop jumping exercise.
Cheaper to just hire those with a golf handicap of single figures, or some other team game (basket ball?) to demonstrate hand to eye coordination and team work?
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 326
Likes: 7
From: World
They still charge you for the screening. I think it's higher now like 400 euros or so.
And by the way I completed my MCC and I got an immediate call from Ryanair and Easyjet. Too funny. I'll decide for Easyjet of course. Ryanair is unreliable. First they partner with a dubious flight school and then they start cooperation with 2 other flight schools. Strange. If they change their mind so fast with their crews too it's not my company.
Good luck to you all
And by the way I completed my MCC and I got an immediate call from Ryanair and Easyjet. Too funny. I'll decide for Easyjet of course. Ryanair is unreliable. First they partner with a dubious flight school and then they start cooperation with 2 other flight schools. Strange. If they change their mind so fast with their crews too it's not my company.
Good luck to you all
Joined: Apr 2018
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,817
Likes: 276
From: United Kingdom
Which might explain why there are airline prep outfits which fine tune you for the interview and group exercise.
And for integrated courses there is plenty material on line to prepare for the aptitude testing etc. Anyone who cannot achieve an extremely high score on these haven't prepared well enough. It is turning into a hoop jumping exercise.
Cheaper to just hire those with a golf handicap of single figures, or some other team game (basket ball?) to demonstrate hand to eye coordination and team work?
It's better prepare specific for the airline in question when you have the assessment. Instead of dreaming of the 148.000 Euro a year Ryanair contract.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: "Dark side of the moon"
The Ryanair APS MCC with RYR partner schools or RYR mentored training schemes (AFTA) are so much more expensive than standard training without that they seem to provide an actual "direct" route into Ryanair. Is this simply extra profit generated for the flightschool, or does somehow RYR also benefit from this? What kind of percentages would a flightschool pay to RYR to use their name?
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 326
Likes: 7
From: World
I would say you have gone with the better of the 2 choices. So I assume you did not spend money on APS, but still got an assessment?
I have never heard of anyone not getting an assessment with Ryanair when they have applied, sure they might need to wait 2 - 3 months or maybe more, but paying an additional 5000 - 6000 Euros, to maybe guarantee you an interview, shows that something is wrong in the industry.
There was many years ago a course CTC used to run, if you passed the assessment you would do something similar an advanced MCC/JOC course, and you would be put in the hold pool for an airline. Basically it was a waiting list to start with the company, but of course nothing was guaranteed. But at least you had passed the primary selection when you commenced this course, not just waiting for an interview.
Normally 70 - 90% of the people who are interviewed don't even get to the Sim session, so by doing this APS, your focus is on the second part of the assessment, which you might not even reach if you can't perform during the interview and group work if they have this.
I have never heard of anyone not getting an assessment with Ryanair when they have applied, sure they might need to wait 2 - 3 months or maybe more, but paying an additional 5000 - 6000 Euros, to maybe guarantee you an interview, shows that something is wrong in the industry.
There was many years ago a course CTC used to run, if you passed the assessment you would do something similar an advanced MCC/JOC course, and you would be put in the hold pool for an airline. Basically it was a waiting list to start with the company, but of course nothing was guaranteed. But at least you had passed the primary selection when you commenced this course, not just waiting for an interview.
Normally 70 - 90% of the people who are interviewed don't even get to the Sim session, so by doing this APS, your focus is on the second part of the assessment, which you might not even reach if you can't perform during the interview and group work if they have this.
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: Istanbul
The Ryanair APS MCC with RYR partner schools or RYR mentored training schemes (AFTA) are so much more expensive than standard training without that they seem to provide an actual "direct" route into Ryanair. Is this simply extra profit generated for the flightschool, or does somehow RYR also benefit from this? What kind of percentages would a flightschool pay to RYR to use their name?
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 4
From: England
So much bull!!!! on this thread. The simple fact is APSMCC graduates are far better prepared for assessments and type rating. While Ryanair might have had a guiding hand in the regulation, many of the better MCC providers have offered enhanced versions for years.
The other key point is that the the APS has a test at the end of it, rather than just being an attendance course. I’ve trained hundreds of students on basic (20 hr) MCCs and I can tell you, we might have given them a certificate, (because they ‘completed’ the course), but only a few reached a point where I was confident they would pass a sim check. Many were awful including a percentage that I wouldn’t trust to sit the right way round on a lavatory let alone fly a transport category aircraft.
On an APS course there is a lot more scope to fix basic problems, and, if they cannot be fixed, then they will fail the APS assessment.
Simple fact is APSMCC holders have greater success rate at interview. You can bitch about the extra cost if you want, but as a percentage of your total spend it is small. If it gets you to a job a little bit quicker it pays for itself anyway.
Doing a basic MCC is a false economy.
The other key point is that the the APS has a test at the end of it, rather than just being an attendance course. I’ve trained hundreds of students on basic (20 hr) MCCs and I can tell you, we might have given them a certificate, (because they ‘completed’ the course), but only a few reached a point where I was confident they would pass a sim check. Many were awful including a percentage that I wouldn’t trust to sit the right way round on a lavatory let alone fly a transport category aircraft.
On an APS course there is a lot more scope to fix basic problems, and, if they cannot be fixed, then they will fail the APS assessment.
Simple fact is APSMCC holders have greater success rate at interview. You can bitch about the extra cost if you want, but as a percentage of your total spend it is small. If it gets you to a job a little bit quicker it pays for itself anyway.
Doing a basic MCC is a false economy.
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 16
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From: München
The Ryanair APS MCC with RYR partner schools or RYR mentored training schemes (AFTA) are so much more expensive than standard training without that they seem to provide an actual "direct" route into Ryanair. Is this simply extra profit generated for the flightschool, or does somehow RYR also benefit from this? What kind of percentages would a flightschool pay to RYR to use their name?
de minimus non curat lex
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,510
Likes: 7
From: sunny troon
That's my point right from the start of the APS. Fresh graduates should be aware of the fact that professional agencies get paid by some flight schools for advertising on social media like pprune etc. Recommendation schemes at FB are easy to manipulate. Just a matter of price.
Why don't you re read my post #12 May 26@1103
i would be happy to clarify anything which remains unclear.
Basic MCC 5: This may well be an appropriate course for a military pilot. A steep learning curve nonetheless for even the sharpest. Getting out of single crew techniques can prove difficult.
Old habits die hard.
Last edited by parkfell; 7th July 2019 at 09:55. Reason: Additional final paragraph: MCC 5 v. Military pilot
Joined: Apr 2012
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: N/A
Of course if others are paying for your training even a 10% difference can be seen as “small”...
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 20
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From: Bologna
Won’t talk about APS vs MCC as I don’t have enough knowledge of the subject, but an additional 3500€ is 6% of total training cost (assuming 60k total). Not really “small” in my opinion.
Of course if others are paying for your training even a 10% difference can be seen as “small”...