SFT or not SFT
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SFT or not SFT
I am looking very closely at SFT for their integrated course and wanted to field some opinions as to where people see them in the league table of integrated course suppliers here in the UK. I know the league table only has four org's in it, but opinions would still be much appreciated. I know someone posted a piece about this but without the search option, I'm unable to track it down.
Thanks
Thanks
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Hi sydneyc,
If you want to e-mail me, I'll send you my opinions of SFT. I don't really want to post them here, incase people who know me at the school get onto me for something I said. I'm not saying I only have bad things to say about SFT, far from it.
Note - For those of you who I have already mailed (about six people), I don't work for SFT!
If you want to e-mail me, I'll send you my opinions of SFT. I don't really want to post them here, incase people who know me at the school get onto me for something I said. I'm not saying I only have bad things to say about SFT, far from it.
Note - For those of you who I have already mailed (about six people), I don't work for SFT!
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Intergrated course. I think SFT are a 'modular training provider. Altough do the hole lot, just like OATS and Scabair.
I looked at them, as I live locally. But decided to do my ground at PPSc and the flying with PAT, both at Bournemouth.
Worth a thought
I looked at them, as I live locally. But decided to do my ground at PPSc and the flying with PAT, both at Bournemouth.
Worth a thought
Jet Blast Rat
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SFT should soon be approved again for integrated courses. If anyone can tell me the point of one for self-sponsored students, I would be fascinated.
SydneyC already knows my high opinion of SFT, also not posted for good reasons. Anyone want to know, email.
SydneyC already knows my high opinion of SFT, also not posted for good reasons. Anyone want to know, email.
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i have looked at length into SFT and have visited them recently. I was impressed with the flying set up, though i get the feeling that planes and instructors can become scarce when they are busy!
However, it was my intention to do my groundschool at PPSC (save £900) based on info from other people who have been there.
However, for anyone who will have to find somewhere to live there i.e. a b+b, (for 12 months), dont under-estimate the additional cost! See 'the real cost of going modular' posted previously today.
Good luck with your training.
However, it was my intention to do my groundschool at PPSC (save £900) based on info from other people who have been there.
However, for anyone who will have to find somewhere to live there i.e. a b+b, (for 12 months), dont under-estimate the additional cost! See 'the real cost of going modular' posted previously today.
Good luck with your training.
Jet Blast Rat
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Why live in a B&B? It is rarely the cheapest option, and self catering can be much more comfortable for that timespan.
Having said that, I started living in cheap full-board lodgings intending to change, and like the people and the place so much I have stayed on. I am paying less than £4000 a year for accomodation, food and even some beer! Varied and cosmopolitan company (Czech, Colombian, Japanese, Polish and Russian at the moment) allows me to get away from aviation in the evening
Cycling to SFT keeps me fit and keeps transport costs down.
Integrated course with accomodation (not all seem to include it, or did I miss something? The difference with an integrated course is you don't need to get a PPL before groundschool, not that accomodation is provided) may help if you have never been away from home, sounds like University halls to me, but if you have lived independently it might be less pleasant, and I can't see it as really necessaryt to have everything provided on a plate.
Having said that, I started living in cheap full-board lodgings intending to change, and like the people and the place so much I have stayed on. I am paying less than £4000 a year for accomodation, food and even some beer! Varied and cosmopolitan company (Czech, Colombian, Japanese, Polish and Russian at the moment) allows me to get away from aviation in the evening
Cycling to SFT keeps me fit and keeps transport costs down.Integrated course with accomodation (not all seem to include it, or did I miss something? The difference with an integrated course is you don't need to get a PPL before groundschool, not that accomodation is provided) may help if you have never been away from home, sounds like University halls to me, but if you have lived independently it might be less pleasant, and I can't see it as really necessaryt to have everything provided on a plate.
Jet Blast Rat
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Oh, and by the way there is no lack of flying instructors at SFT that I know of, certainly was not when I was training.
Although when I did my CPL some people were affected by aircraft availability for complex single, at the time they negociated to borrow as required two extra Arrows so have solved the bottleneck. Also I suspect the problem exists everywhere - the new JAA requirement for complex type in training and test has made the types scarce, and SFT I understand had difficulty sourcing aircrarft.
[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: Send Clowns ]
Although when I did my CPL some people were affected by aircraft availability for complex single, at the time they negociated to borrow as required two extra Arrows so have solved the bottleneck. Also I suspect the problem exists everywhere - the new JAA requirement for complex type in training and test has made the types scarce, and SFT I understand had difficulty sourcing aircrarft.
[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: Send Clowns ]
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Send Clowns,
You ask what the value is to a self-funder of an integrated course. There is another thread running at this time on the Wannabe forum where many experienced pilots are detailing their experience of airlines opting for integrated pilots rather than modular. It seems the consensus is if you can pull the money together, you are best served tackling an integrated course. That said, someone else has worked out that the cost difference between the two is minimal. Am interested in your thoughts on this.
sydneyc
You ask what the value is to a self-funder of an integrated course. There is another thread running at this time on the Wannabe forum where many experienced pilots are detailing their experience of airlines opting for integrated pilots rather than modular. It seems the consensus is if you can pull the money together, you are best served tackling an integrated course. That said, someone else has worked out that the cost difference between the two is minimal. Am interested in your thoughts on this.
sydneyc
Jet Blast Rat
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No problem, Sydney. The cheapest integrated CAA approved JAA ATPL available when I was looking was £47 000, from Cabair (that I could find - BAe and Multiflight did not have approval then). I was given to understand this did not include accomodation, though this could be provided at a competitive rate.
The cheapest modular I could find with groundschool and flying at one school (which I preferred) was SFT at (then, before the full impact of the JAA had been realised!) £38 000 all-inclusive except food and accomodation in the UK. This included exam fees (ground and air test), MCC, food and accom in the US, various bits such as log book and David Clarke headset.
Not sure if Cabair included MCC (does an integrated course?) but even if it did I saved £9 000! I did the course straight through as if it were integrated anyway.
BTW the course is no longer different from an integrated course, as the rules for the latter have been relaxed. Therefore I cannot see the airlines favouring one above the other in future!
[ 31 July 2001: Message edited by: Send Clowns ]
The cheapest modular I could find with groundschool and flying at one school (which I preferred) was SFT at (then, before the full impact of the JAA had been realised!) £38 000 all-inclusive except food and accomodation in the UK. This included exam fees (ground and air test), MCC, food and accom in the US, various bits such as log book and David Clarke headset.
Not sure if Cabair included MCC (does an integrated course?) but even if it did I saved £9 000! I did the course straight through as if it were integrated anyway.
BTW the course is no longer different from an integrated course, as the rules for the latter have been relaxed. Therefore I cannot see the airlines favouring one above the other in future!
[ 31 July 2001: Message edited by: Send Clowns ]
Send Clowns.
Please, ease off the SFT promotion will you mate?
I understand you've been there and thus are speaking from personal experience. However, either a more balanced posting style, a frequent reminder that you work for them now or fewer posts would probably be appropriate.
Just a polite request - I'm not narked or anything.
Cheers,
WWW
Please, ease off the SFT promotion will you mate?
I understand you've been there and thus are speaking from personal experience. However, either a more balanced posting style, a frequent reminder that you work for them now or fewer posts would probably be appropriate.
Just a polite request - I'm not narked or anything.
Cheers,
WWW
Jet Blast Rat
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Will do, WWW. Just get a little frustrated by propoganda from the 'big boys' saying 'integrated is best' or 'Come to us and put XXXXXX on your CV' when people often don't see the other side, then they unintentionally spread the propoganda ...
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Nationalise the lot, and give us all considerably subsidised trainning, whilst making flying schools totally inefficient.
Saying that thought of being taught at SFT, by a bloke with bright red hair lots of white makeup on with tears down cheek, ridiculously large shoes, tartan clothes and a flower that squirts out water kinda scares me.
, so the blatant appraisal has scarred me for life
On a more serious note, I have never heard anything really bad about SFT, people from other large flight schools say they would have preferred to have gone there with hindsight.
Just look around and choose what is right for you, then rob a bank that is not yours to pay for the fees <g>
Sagey
Saying that thought of being taught at SFT, by a bloke with bright red hair lots of white makeup on with tears down cheek, ridiculously large shoes, tartan clothes and a flower that squirts out water kinda scares me.
, so the blatant appraisal has scarred me for life On a more serious note, I have never heard anything really bad about SFT, people from other large flight schools say they would have preferred to have gone there with hindsight.
Just look around and choose what is right for you, then rob a bank that is not yours to pay for the fees <g>
Sagey
Seadog - when I posted stuff about Jerez when I worked there it was right there in my profile. More often than not I reminded people in the actualy post to balance my comments against being an employee.
Incidently my relationship with PPRuNe caused me a lot more grief with management than anything else. Indeed it was because of my involvement with PPRuNe that certain people chose to attack Jerez in a campaign on this forum just so it would make life for me awkward. Since leaving they seem to have completely lost interest in slagging the place off...
BAE never asked nor ever needed any PPRuNe publicity to help their business - they have been booked solid and turning people away as they exceeded their buid up planned numbers from month one.
I strongly value people from inside FTO's contributing here - you can get hold of some fantastic info. I do have a duty though to try and ensure some degree of transparency.
As I said - I'm not narked.
Cheers,
WWW
Incidently my relationship with PPRuNe caused me a lot more grief with management than anything else. Indeed it was because of my involvement with PPRuNe that certain people chose to attack Jerez in a campaign on this forum just so it would make life for me awkward. Since leaving they seem to have completely lost interest in slagging the place off...
BAE never asked nor ever needed any PPRuNe publicity to help their business - they have been booked solid and turning people away as they exceeded their buid up planned numbers from month one.
I strongly value people from inside FTO's contributing here - you can get hold of some fantastic info. I do have a duty though to try and ensure some degree of transparency.
As I said - I'm not narked.
Cheers,
WWW
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sagey, thanks for your input.
window seat, are you now sold on Jerez? I think I've seen a post of yours saying you were dismayed by the number of sponsored students arriving for their October course?
The SFT integrated course starts on November 19th. I'm still trying to field opinions on whether this is a better option with SFT than their continuous modular route? In other words, will a brand new integrated with SFT be worth it? WWW - any thoughts?
window seat, are you now sold on Jerez? I think I've seen a post of yours saying you were dismayed by the number of sponsored students arriving for their October course?
The SFT integrated course starts on November 19th. I'm still trying to field opinions on whether this is a better option with SFT than their continuous modular route? In other words, will a brand new integrated with SFT be worth it? WWW - any thoughts?
I don't think hanging around with the sponsored guys is necessarily a bad thing. As long as you aren't treated less favourably on the flying allocation side of things then there is no problem.
WWW
WWW
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I totally agree, being in a mixed group (sponsored & skint) has alot of advantages for both sides, and would hopefully minimise any special treatment given to the airline's eggs!
I was informed recently that the classes were around a 50:50 split, .....no probs! Then on application for the August class was informed that BA had taken the whole allocation, .....ok, no probs! Now on aiming for the October class, I along with around 6 other hopefuls on pprune have been informed that a 'mystery airline' has come out of the woodwork and will be claiming 10 of the 14 places avaliable.
This in it's self is not a major issue (provided the airline involved isn't outa-mongolia airways, forcing the groundschool to run for 25 years whilst they get to grips with the english language)! I would jump at the chance to join 10 students from BA or similar.
My worry now is that, whilst i wait for my class 1 cert. to drop through the door, and my bank to sort out the EURO deposit, the 4 places left for us self-funders will be gone, forcing me to work in my god-forsaken, boring as hell, nightmare (but reasonably well paid) office job for another month!
Still, all good things come to those who wait, and wait.........and wait!
[ 01 August 2001: Message edited by: window-seat ]
I was informed recently that the classes were around a 50:50 split, .....no probs! Then on application for the August class was informed that BA had taken the whole allocation, .....ok, no probs! Now on aiming for the October class, I along with around 6 other hopefuls on pprune have been informed that a 'mystery airline' has come out of the woodwork and will be claiming 10 of the 14 places avaliable.
This in it's self is not a major issue (provided the airline involved isn't outa-mongolia airways, forcing the groundschool to run for 25 years whilst they get to grips with the english language)! I would jump at the chance to join 10 students from BA or similar.
My worry now is that, whilst i wait for my class 1 cert. to drop through the door, and my bank to sort out the EURO deposit, the 4 places left for us self-funders will be gone, forcing me to work in my god-forsaken, boring as hell, nightmare (but reasonably well paid) office job for another month!
Still, all good things come to those who wait, and wait.........and wait!
[ 01 August 2001: Message edited by: window-seat ]
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One major advantage with SFT is the weather. Bournemouth has a better climate than most UK Flight Schools. Obviously Jerez beats all hands down. Bournemouth International/Hurn whatever you want to call it is a lovely airport and is getting more and more popular as is running the odd charter flight.
Sagey
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There are (and remain) significant differences between integrated and modular courses - the rules have not been changed. that is a different point from your employability as a graduate. My opinion is that it does make a difference as a fresh graduate, ie without any post-graduate experience. However, the difference dissapears when experience is added.
As to the original question about league tables, there is no published evidence to support the many and colourful opinions you'll get here, but historic reputation would make the top league BAE, WMU and OAT, with SFT joining Cabair in the second league. There are modular schools which do not offer the full range who would warrant a top league place for the modules they supply, eg Bristol Groundschool.
Do the top league deserve their placings? Should the second league be promoted? I hear the noise of that can being opened again!
F
As to the original question about league tables, there is no published evidence to support the many and colourful opinions you'll get here, but historic reputation would make the top league BAE, WMU and OAT, with SFT joining Cabair in the second league. There are modular schools which do not offer the full range who would warrant a top league place for the modules they supply, eg Bristol Groundschool.
Do the top league deserve their placings? Should the second league be promoted? I hear the noise of that can being opened again!
F