Dual, Command or Copilot hours in logbook?
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Dual, Command or Copilot hours in logbook?
I hold a valid CASA CPL with MEP/IR current. I also hold a valid EASA CPL with MEP/IR current. Both licences have valid MEP class ratings. 9000+hrs total time. My log book (CAA Australia) has only three columns for multi engine aircraft flight. Dual (D/N). Command (D/N). Co-pilot (D/N).
I am currently undergoing 'training' (operational conversion) in UK on DA42. My EASA CPL permits me to operate as PIC on MEP <5700kg, but the company (AOC) SOPs require all new pilots to undertake an 'operational conversion' of 40 hours, finished off with an OPC. 'Training' is conducted by 'line captains' who are CRIs, but not FIs. I occupy the left seat and do all the hands on flying.
So my question. What times do I put in my logbook? Dual? (I suspect not, as they are not FIs and anyway, I am already qualified on MEP). Co-Pilot? (No, Its not a multi pilot aircraft). Command? (the only remaining choice). But is that correct?. I don't sign for the aircraft in the techlog. So I'm not PIC by virtual of signing. I am, however, manipulating the controls for the entire flight. So that would certainly qualify as 1st Pilot time.....but I have no column for that!
Maybe I need to buy a new EASA logbok!
I am currently undergoing 'training' (operational conversion) in UK on DA42. My EASA CPL permits me to operate as PIC on MEP <5700kg, but the company (AOC) SOPs require all new pilots to undertake an 'operational conversion' of 40 hours, finished off with an OPC. 'Training' is conducted by 'line captains' who are CRIs, but not FIs. I occupy the left seat and do all the hands on flying.
So my question. What times do I put in my logbook? Dual? (I suspect not, as they are not FIs and anyway, I am already qualified on MEP). Co-Pilot? (No, Its not a multi pilot aircraft). Command? (the only remaining choice). But is that correct?. I don't sign for the aircraft in the techlog. So I'm not PIC by virtual of signing. I am, however, manipulating the controls for the entire flight. So that would certainly qualify as 1st Pilot time.....but I have no column for that!
Maybe I need to buy a new EASA logbok!
The fact that CRIs are not also FIs is irrelevant, they are still authorised instructors. Consider yourself as a trainee on an IR course conducted by an IRI who is not an FI - would you have difficulty with how to log that flying?
From FCL.010: 'Dual instruction time' means flight time or instrument ground time during which a person is receiving flight instruction from a properly authorised instructor.
Consequently, unless the AOC Operations Manual says otherwise, training flights conducted by CRIs in SP aeroplanes should be logged by the trainee as Dual.
From FCL.010: 'Dual instruction time' means flight time or instrument ground time during which a person is receiving flight instruction from a properly authorised instructor.
Consequently, unless the AOC Operations Manual says otherwise, training flights conducted by CRIs in SP aeroplanes should be logged by the trainee as Dual.
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Good point and well made.
So today I started 'line training', learning the missions I will shortly fly solo. The guy showing me the ropes holds the title 'Line Training Captain' ...... an experienced right seat pilot.... but with no formal instructional qualifications. I manipulate the controls for the entire mission. So what do I log now?
If a pilot holds no formal instructional qualifications. what / who determines if the guy in the right seat is a "properly authorised instructor"? Internal company appointment OK? Or does it require a formal qualification to be a "properly authorised instructor".
So today I started 'line training', learning the missions I will shortly fly solo. The guy showing me the ropes holds the title 'Line Training Captain' ...... an experienced right seat pilot.... but with no formal instructional qualifications. I manipulate the controls for the entire mission. So what do I log now?
If a pilot holds no formal instructional qualifications. what / who determines if the guy in the right seat is a "properly authorised instructor"? Internal company appointment OK? Or does it require a formal qualification to be a "properly authorised instructor".
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Interesting observation. And if true, quite an administrative challenge.
If the line training captain signs for the aircraft, he is PIC and logs it accordingly. Meanwhile, I do all the flying and log nothing. How then do I show that I have flown the required number of hours / sectors required (iaw the OM) to be signed off???? It wouldnt be in my log book..........
If the line training captain signs for the aircraft, he is PIC and logs it accordingly. Meanwhile, I do all the flying and log nothing. How then do I show that I have flown the required number of hours / sectors required (iaw the OM) to be signed off???? It wouldnt be in my log book..........
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We get this as well with multi crew line training sort of. There is huge debate if to log it as co-pilot or PICUS during company conversion as a DEC.
I just log it as Co-pilot can't be bothered... PICUS is just a construct to allow zero to heros to get enough PIC time to get a ATPL. After you have an ATPL then its pointless. Someone may suggest you log it as PICUS.
Personally if I was you I would log all the flights and put in the remarks col. Company conversion line training up to you if you if you get the person to sign each one off.
Then don't bother adding any of the hours to your totals. With 9000+ hours they are not going to do anything realistically for your CV as single pilot PIC. The only thing I can think of that requires MEP SEP pic time is the entry requirements for MEP CRI class which you need 30. If you have more than that anyway your not loosing anything.
I just log it as Co-pilot can't be bothered... PICUS is just a construct to allow zero to heros to get enough PIC time to get a ATPL. After you have an ATPL then its pointless. Someone may suggest you log it as PICUS.
Personally if I was you I would log all the flights and put in the remarks col. Company conversion line training up to you if you if you get the person to sign each one off.
Then don't bother adding any of the hours to your totals. With 9000+ hours they are not going to do anything realistically for your CV as single pilot PIC. The only thing I can think of that requires MEP SEP pic time is the entry requirements for MEP CRI class which you need 30. If you have more than that anyway your not loosing anything.
