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Is MCC required for ATPL license with 8000 hrs jet?

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Is MCC required for ATPL license with 8000 hrs jet?

Old 1st Mar 2018, 06:40
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NY
Age: 41
Posts: 143
Is MCC required for ATPL license with 8000 hrs jet?

Hello eveybody,

Could someone help me answering that questions:

I hold a UK EASA ATPL and have more than 8000 hrs total time mostly on A320 and A330 including 3000 PIC time on those planes. I used to work oversea with ICAO ATPL and a few years back I converted my foreign ATPL to UK ATPL by doing the 14 exams and doing a sim check in the 320 with a CAA inspector. That's how i got my ATPL and A320 type rating on it.

Now I am applying for a job in Europe for the first time as a First Officer and one of the requirements to get invited for an interview is holding the MCC certificate. I don't have one and never had the need for one as I never flew in Europe before.

My understanding of the EASA regulation, is that MCC is mandatory before joining a first type rating course, which would apply for fresh CPL/IR holders getting out of the flight school. I already have a 320 type rating endorsed on my license so in theory I shouldn't need an MCC certificate. I've been flying multi crew aircrafts for the last 12 years outside of Europe!

So I was wondering if someone could help me find some references in the regulation that would allow me to justify to the recruiters that I do not need the MCC considering my experience already.

So far the person i spoke with in the hiring departments told me I need the MCC before being considered, but before i spend 4000 Euros, I want to make sure there is no other legal alternative since it should not be mandatory for someone like me.

Thanks in advance
NineInchSnail is offline  
Old 1st Mar 2018, 07:26
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: in a 5 m/s thermal
Age: 26
Posts: 42
Hi

I had a quick glance at a Wizz experienced FO job, they dont require MCC, so probably the HR doesnt know whats up.
hoduka is offline  
Old 1st Mar 2018, 16:56
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Palmas
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I have a lot of interest in this well as I am in a similar situation although about a decade away from that many flight hours lol. Been flying hawkers (multiple crew) 550 hrs on type. Working on passing the ATPL exams and will try to get a job. But there's always this damn MCC. I've done MCC in Brazil in a full motion 737 but not one person seems to know what it means if I try to go to an airline. Really hate to pay another 4k Euros to even be considered when there's probably a hundred integrated students who never flew Jet but look cuter on paper.
Hawker400 is offline  
Old 1st Mar 2018, 18:54
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Age: 42
Posts: 299
Are you guys serious?

Why don't you get a PPL while you're at it - the MCC is only for new guys with less than 500 hours multi crew - they need it before they can get a type rating. You've already got a type rating!
rudestuff is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2018, 10:04
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Join Date: May 2004
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MCC is a requirement for a first type rating on any multi-crew aircraft.

As a multi-crew type rating is a requirement for holding an EASA ATPL, it stands to reason that, if you have an EASA ATPL you have met the requirements for MCC.

This sounds like a typical HR balls-up where the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Someone in HR, whose only knowledge of aircraft is sitting in comfort in company sponsored first class travel, has written a set of requirements for employment, constructed from the basic EASA requirements but hasn't bothered to read the exceptions to the rules, whereby a person already holding an ICAO Annex 1 ATPL, and meeting ALL regulatory and/or experience requirements for EASA ATPL issue, can obtain an EASA ATPL without undertaking a MCC course.

i would wager (notionally, of course) a month's wages that you can provide the 'rules and regs' to the jobsworths at this airline but it will not make a scrap of difference. "These are OUR rules, not EASA's"...or in other words "It is far too much like hard work for us to spend two hours rewriting our internal policies to take into account EASA's actual licensing requirements - our own are much easier".

Saying that, I may be being a tad unkind to the HR department when in fact the problem lies with that vile breed of low-life known as 'insurers' who spend a large proportion of their existence introducing legislation forcing insurance upon us, whilst spending far more time writing exemptions and 'get-out-of-paying' clauses....and breathe!

It wouldn't surprise me if somebody within the airline's insurance/legal department has dreamt up this requirement, having no real knowledge of the exceptions within the EASA/EU regulations!

Soap box away...coat please!!
2close is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2018, 12:22
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
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The big question is why would you want to be an FO?
rudestuff is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2018, 07:12
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 150
Nine,

You have the MCC because you are A320 rated which is a multi-crew aircraft! So the MCC is included in it! HR knows nothing, ask them to request confirmation directly to one of their TRI/TRE's!
FBW390 is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2018, 08:52
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: london, UK
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Originally Posted by Mustapha Cuppa View Post
To reinforce 2close's post, from Commission Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011:

FCL.720.A Experience requirements and prerequisites for the issue of class or type ratings aeroplanes

Unless otherwise determined in the operational suitability data established in accordance with Part- 21, an applicant for a class or type rating shall comply with the following experience requirements and prerequisites for the issue of the relevant rating:

(a) [..]

(b) [..]

(c) [..]

(d) Multi-pilot aeroplanes. An applicant for the first type rating course for a multi-pilot aeroplane shall be a student pilot currently undergoing training on an MPL training course or comply with the following requirements:
(1) have at least 70 hours of flight experience as PIC on aeroplanes;

(2) hold a multi-engine IR(A);

(3) have passed the ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examinations in accordance with this Part; and

(4) except when the type rating course is combined with an MCC course:
(i) hold a certificate of satisfactory completion of an MCC course in aeroplanes; or

(ii) hold a certificate of satisfactory completion of MCC in helicopters and have more than 100 hours of flight experience as a pilot on multi-pilot helicopters; or

(iii) have at least 500 hours as a pilot on multi-pilot helicopters; or

(iv) have at least 500 hours as a pilot in multi-pilot operations on single- pilot multi-engine aeroplanes, in commercial air transport in accordance with the applicable air operations requirements.
(e) [..]
I had over 500 hours on a single pilot multi engine jet flown in a multi pilot environment and wrote to the UK CAA who provided a letter confirming there was no need for an MCC in order to do my first multi pilot type. You should probably write to your issuing authority and ask for a similar letter.
tommoutrie is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2018, 10:28
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Age: 42
Posts: 299
You are exempt the MCC, simple as that.

How you deal with HR is up to you. Either tell them you are exempt, or say that you have it (to tick the box) and show them your ATPL. An MCC is only required if you hold a frozen ATPL - they are probably just not expecting anyone with a full ATPL to be daft enough to apply!
rudestuff is offline  

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