FAA Certifcates issued on basis of ICAO licence - STOPPED
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FAA Certifcates issued on basis of ICAO licence - STOPPED
http://www.faa.gov/fsdo/orl/forpilot.htm
...says there is a complete, yet temporary(?), ban on the FAA offices (FSDOs) issuing FAA Private Pilot Licences on the basis of Foreign Pilot Certificates.
All the DPE's (Flight Examiners) in the area - that were tasked with doing this job, post 9/11 - have been contacted and told to stop doing conversions WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT.
No news, just yet, as to whether an ICAO licensed pilot may take the FAA check ride for a full, stand alone, licence (without doing a course of training).
This ban, apparantly, applies to all FSDOs nationwide.
...says there is a complete, yet temporary(?), ban on the FAA offices (FSDOs) issuing FAA Private Pilot Licences on the basis of Foreign Pilot Certificates.
All the DPE's (Flight Examiners) in the area - that were tasked with doing this job, post 9/11 - have been contacted and told to stop doing conversions WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT.
No news, just yet, as to whether an ICAO licensed pilot may take the FAA check ride for a full, stand alone, licence (without doing a course of training).
This ban, apparantly, applies to all FSDOs nationwide.
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Gonewest is quite correct. The edict came down from on high this morning and will stay in effect until a new procedure is pubished at a later date.
I hope this doesn't mess up too many vacations.
I hope this doesn't mess up too many vacations.
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Nice one FAA ... I presume it's got something to do with yet another half crocked ill conceived 'security' measure .... I mean, I'm sure all Osama's next wave of potential hijackers will be really gutted, now that they can no longer automatically convert their Afghanistani PPL's to US ones 
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I see concerns and feel the same way myself. I was talking to our local D.P.E. and he says its just the tip of the iceberg.
Today FAA came out with new ruling that no addtional FAA rating can be added on to an FAA licence issued on the basis of foreing licence conversion!
I know it doesnt sound too bad, but all the wannabes out there hoping to do their FAA IR will have to do a full/stand alone PPL before you can take the FAA IR flight test. Also you cannot be issued with seaplane rating unless you hold a full FAA PPL.
Of course this also is temporary and in effect until further notice.
I hope things doesnt get any worse.
-Jatin
Today FAA came out with new ruling that no addtional FAA rating can be added on to an FAA licence issued on the basis of foreing licence conversion!
I know it doesnt sound too bad, but all the wannabes out there hoping to do their FAA IR will have to do a full/stand alone PPL before you can take the FAA IR flight test. Also you cannot be issued with seaplane rating unless you hold a full FAA PPL.
Of course this also is temporary and in effect until further notice.
I hope things doesnt get any worse.
-Jatin
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I have a US PPl issued on the back of my CAA PPL with a US Multi rating, My License says "ME Piston US Test Passed"
This i'm led to believe "legitimised" my FAA PPL. I was looking to come across and do a CPL course, I have also been studying for the US CPL exam.
With me doing the Multi rating in the US and it already issued, can I do the CPL test? I have well over 700 hours and have an unrestricted Instructors rating on my UK CPL/IR.
Does this effectively stop me or due to my experience can I come over and do the test outright anyway?
Can the US IR be issued on the back of an ICAO IR with just an exam as previously?
This i'm led to believe "legitimised" my FAA PPL. I was looking to come across and do a CPL course, I have also been studying for the US CPL exam.
With me doing the Multi rating in the US and it already issued, can I do the CPL test? I have well over 700 hours and have an unrestricted Instructors rating on my UK CPL/IR.
Does this effectively stop me or due to my experience can I come over and do the test outright anyway?
Can the US IR be issued on the back of an ICAO IR with just an exam as previously?
G-SPOTs Lost,
I'm pretty sure you'll find that you'll be able to continue to fly in the US on your current certificate. When you take the CPL flight test here, you'll get a new certificate that isn't based on your CAA one. At least that what happened with me when I did my CPL flight test over here.
As far as the IR is concerned, I don't think the FAA has ever issued an FAA IR on the back of an ICAO IR without both the flight and exam having been completed. The only way to get an FAA IR is to do the CPL flight test and then do the IR. That way you won't be getting another rating added to a certificate issued on the basis of a foreign one.
Take it easy,
Kenny
I'm pretty sure you'll find that you'll be able to continue to fly in the US on your current certificate. When you take the CPL flight test here, you'll get a new certificate that isn't based on your CAA one. At least that what happened with me when I did my CPL flight test over here.
As far as the IR is concerned, I don't think the FAA has ever issued an FAA IR on the back of an ICAO IR without both the flight and exam having been completed. The only way to get an FAA IR is to do the CPL flight test and then do the IR. That way you won't be getting another rating added to a certificate issued on the basis of a foreign one.
Take it easy,
Kenny
Last edited by Kenny; 20th Jul 2002 at 13:42.
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A question.....
Just want to be 100% clear on this .....
Does this mean that anyone who already has U.S. Private Pilot Certificate issued on the basis of their ICAO licence, can no longer use it? Or is it just the issuing of new ones, as appears to be the case?
Does this mean that anyone who already has U.S. Private Pilot Certificate issued on the basis of their ICAO licence, can no longer use it? Or is it just the issuing of new ones, as appears to be the case?
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Do European JAR authorities, or individual country-based authorities, give private (or any other) license levels based on FAA licenses? Is there equivilency here? For FAA licenses/ratings to be given based on recognition of other nations'/regions licenses/ratings, there should be equivilent recognition of FAA licenses in these countries/regions.
I say there boy
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No, in the UK the CAA will not give you a PPL based upon your FAA or ICAO PPL....
.... because you don't need one at all - you get full Private priviledges with the aircraft type/class privilges of your ICAO licence with no additional paperwork. The only limitation is that an ICAO/FAA IR only confers UK IMC priviliges (therefore higgher approach minima and no Class A allowed).
Can't comment on the other European countries as licence recognition is a matter for national legislation - it is not harmonised via the JAA.
So there is lack of equivilency. An FAA certificate holder can just show up in at a UK club, hire a G-reg aircraft and fly here*, but I now can't hire N-reg in the US off the back of my JAA (or for that matter SA) licence.
*obviously the club may have its own checkride requirements but that happens the world over.
.... because you don't need one at all - you get full Private priviledges with the aircraft type/class privilges of your ICAO licence with no additional paperwork. The only limitation is that an ICAO/FAA IR only confers UK IMC priviliges (therefore higgher approach minima and no Class A allowed).
Can't comment on the other European countries as licence recognition is a matter for national legislation - it is not harmonised via the JAA.
So there is lack of equivilency. An FAA certificate holder can just show up in at a UK club, hire a G-reg aircraft and fly here*, but I now can't hire N-reg in the US off the back of my JAA (or for that matter SA) licence.
*obviously the club may have its own checkride requirements but that happens the world over.
Last edited by foghorn; 20th Jul 2002 at 21:04.
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I thought there was a 5 hour conversion from FAA PPL to JAA PPL Foggy?
Planning to go to Florida to do my FAA PPL + hours build very soon. Anything I should know before signing any papers?
Cheers,
BM.
Planning to go to Florida to do my FAA PPL + hours build very soon. Anything I should know before signing any papers?
Cheers,
BM.
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DO NOT PANIC,
there are every years million of visitors coming to the US.
Some come to fly.So think now, all these tourists can not rent anymore an aircraft for 5 or 10 hours to enjoy a freedom sky.
What will happen? less money for the US, schools and manufacter...
It's not so much money!, I agree, but since the JAA-FCL, US schools have lost thousand of Students, since the 9/11 schools are loosings thousand of Arab Students, since the non ICAO validation license, they are loosing thousand of tourists and the list will continue until a certain point the congress will say:STOP!
just relax guys, The US have a lot to do right now, they have to clean the house and to start on new base.INS, FBI,CIA...some gov office like the INS can disapear in a couple of months.The FAA has to change things.
How do you will react if some stupid jerks take a B767 of british airways and crash on your big ben, or worse, on your queen palace...I am sure you will do the same thing!
when this happen (9/11)I was in the USA. It pissed me off!
so guys, be patient, new rules are coming and everything will be better for us, european pilots.
there are every years million of visitors coming to the US.
Some come to fly.So think now, all these tourists can not rent anymore an aircraft for 5 or 10 hours to enjoy a freedom sky.
What will happen? less money for the US, schools and manufacter...
It's not so much money!, I agree, but since the JAA-FCL, US schools have lost thousand of Students, since the 9/11 schools are loosings thousand of Arab Students, since the non ICAO validation license, they are loosing thousand of tourists and the list will continue until a certain point the congress will say:STOP!
just relax guys, The US have a lot to do right now, they have to clean the house and to start on new base.INS, FBI,CIA...some gov office like the INS can disapear in a couple of months.The FAA has to change things.
How do you will react if some stupid jerks take a B767 of british airways and crash on your big ben, or worse, on your queen palace...I am sure you will do the same thing!
when this happen (9/11)I was in the USA. It pissed me off!
so guys, be patient, new rules are coming and everything will be better for us, european pilots.
I say there boy
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Baldie man,
You're quite right (and I'm technically wrong), you can actually convert if you want to add to your licence collection, however my point on equivalency still stands, you do not need to convert your licence to fly a G-reg aircraft privately if you have an ICAO/FAA licence. However you currently cannot fly N-reg aircraft off the back of your JAA/ICAO licence, nor can you convert (presumably without doing the full PPL course).
As gorky says its a temporary overreaction and no doubt lobbying from FTOs that are losing overseas business will soon make them change their minds.
cheers!
foggy.
You're quite right (and I'm technically wrong), you can actually convert if you want to add to your licence collection, however my point on equivalency still stands, you do not need to convert your licence to fly a G-reg aircraft privately if you have an ICAO/FAA licence. However you currently cannot fly N-reg aircraft off the back of your JAA/ICAO licence, nor can you convert (presumably without doing the full PPL course).
As gorky says its a temporary overreaction and no doubt lobbying from FTOs that are losing overseas business will soon make them change their minds.
cheers!
foggy.
Last edited by foghorn; 20th Jul 2002 at 22:27.
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Foggy,
Sorry, I'm a little confused here. Not used to all the rigmarole of conversions and foreign training.
It is still possible to go to the USA and do their FAA PPL, come back to England and convert to JAA PPL isn't it though? They wouldn't stop me doing that would they?
Edited as I've just re-read your post and it's answered one of my questions. It must be getting late here!
Oh and Gorky, you wouldn't be Ronchonner in disguise would you? Your style is very much in his ilk.
BM.
Sorry, I'm a little confused here. Not used to all the rigmarole of conversions and foreign training.
It is still possible to go to the USA and do their FAA PPL, come back to England and convert to JAA PPL isn't it though? They wouldn't stop me doing that would they?
Edited as I've just re-read your post and it's answered one of my questions. It must be getting late here!
Oh and Gorky, you wouldn't be Ronchonner in disguise would you? Your style is very much in his ilk.
BM.
Last edited by Baldie Man; 20th Jul 2002 at 22:29.
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In Germany only certificates from other European countries are recognised one to one... for a conversion of an american certificate you must pass a German air law exam, plus fly a 300km flight with an instructor, landing at least 2 fields, plus you must have a flight into a aerodrome in controlled airspace....and a few other things.... we don't have FCL yet, hopefully we never will as it'll make flying schools and instructors an indangered species.....
as long as the new FCL regulations are still hanging over our heads, the German regulators are not changing our old, out-of-date rules...
wait and see what the future brings......
keep flying!
WestWind1950
as long as the new FCL regulations are still hanging over our heads, the German regulators are not changing our old, out-of-date rules...
wait and see what the future brings......
keep flying!
WestWind1950
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I spoke with my FAA colleagues on Saturday.
They are worried, in the local office, about the financial aspects of this in Florida - and are pressuring to get it soretd out.
More will unfold this week. I'll let ya know - on here.
They are worried, in the local office, about the financial aspects of this in Florida - and are pressuring to get it soretd out.
More will unfold this week. I'll let ya know - on here.
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Pointless red tape
Yep, I can really see this one hurting the FBOs in Florida, California, etc. What a drag ... and how pointless too. Another self-inflicted wound, and another small victory for the terrorists.
I wish I could be as confident as gorky, but I am far from sure that "everything will be better for us" ... the best that we can hope for is that the old rules will be reinstated.
BTW, it's not clear to me how the FAA can on its own authority simply decide that it is no longer going to observe FARs sec. 61.75 (admittedly that section is not very elegantly drafted and arguably implies that the FAA has some element of discretion).
I wish I could be as confident as gorky, but I am far from sure that "everything will be better for us" ... the best that we can hope for is that the old rules will be reinstated.
BTW, it's not clear to me how the FAA can on its own authority simply decide that it is no longer going to observe FARs sec. 61.75 (admittedly that section is not very elegantly drafted and arguably implies that the FAA has some element of discretion).