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Best route after University - flight training

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Best route after University - flight training

Old 30th Mar 2017, 19:04
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Best route after University - flight training

Hello all,

I am coming to the end of my degree, in which I will (hopefully!) finish University towards the end of May with a LLB Law Degree. My ultimate aim, and always has been, to become a commercial Airline pilot. The reason for the degree, is at the time of leaving college, having spoken to people in the industry, they said that a degree was a sensible idea as something to fall back on, if flying for whatever reason doesn't work out.

I have made up my mind that I want to do my training modular, mainly due to the money you save compared to integrated. I was recently at a 738 sim run by a Ryanair FO, and I'd mentioned to him I was looking at going into Cabin Crew after University, as I know this is a job that although is challenging is something I would enjoy, and would be working in an environment I love. He said this was a good idea, as it is a good way to get myself into the industry and get my face known, building useful contacts in the process.

However, having had time to think this through, I realise that at best, i'm going to be earning around 15,000 basic salary as cabin crew, or even less depending on who I got a job with. I know that this would cover a PPL, but after that it isn't going to be enough...

So my questions are as follows:

- Would working as cabin crew be at all achievable to do the modular route? or;

- Should I look for a better paid job that is still in the industry, such as ops for example of flight planning? Even though it would mean working in an office environment rather than on board an aircraft?

- Would I be best starting my PPL straight away and doing a 'pay as you go' type training, or saving up a substantial amount of money first?

Many thanks guys, I'm new to the forum and just looking for some help pointing me in the right direction, as before I know it I'll be graduating from Uni. I was recently offered an interview with Jet2 as cabin crew, but the training starts before I finish Uni so my application had to be withdrawn, so I'm not sure what opportunities would be around the end of May, if that is something I was to consider.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 23:18
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While cabin crew will give you some experience and get your name known being honest it will not cover the best part of 60-70k it is going to cost you... nevermind the 25-30k after that for the likes of a Ryanair type rating.

Try and use some of the uni training and apply for jobs in the industry with a link to the industry so at least if you aren't successful/lose a medical etc you have a liveable backup career.
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 00:26
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Originally Posted by TangoAlphad View Post
While cabin crew will give you some experience and get your name known being honest it will not cover the best part of 60-70k it is going to cost you... nevermind the 25-30k after that for the likes of a Ryanair type rating.

Try and use some of the uni training and apply for jobs in the industry with a link to the industry so at least if you aren't successful/lose a medical etc you have a liveable backup career.
Yeah that's true and this is my fear. To be honest, I just don't know how people afford it, unless you're in a very high paying director's job that pays a 6 figure salary, the money just seems a barrier I can't overcome.
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 01:02
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I've been looking at places like Stapleford for modular training, what do you think to these prices: http://www.flysfc.com/pdfs/sfc-comme...t-brochure.pdf
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 07:37
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I think you're in a pretty good position to go the modular route. At least you have an education to fall back on. I think your best bet is to get a job with an airline in operations, or ground crew, and do a PPL on the side.

The only thing that worries me about the modular route is getting through the ATPL theory exams. Sadly, they're not like driving test theory exams, where 20 minutes per day on an app for two weeks prior is enough to get you through. Integrated courses take six months to get through all 14 exams, and that probably works-out at nearly 8 hours per day of study. For six months! ATPL theory exams aren't difficult at all, you just 100% need to know the content, and as new questions are constantly being added, hammering the question banks isn't good enough anymore. Because of this, unless you can devote some serious time to learning the ATPL theory, whilst working, I think a good option to consider would be going to a proper ground school for six months to do the exams. It won't be cheap, but ideally you want first-time passes at everything, with a high an average as possible, so I'd advise getting the theory done, ASAP.

Good luck anyway, and if you need any help, don't hesitate to PM me, we're from a similar area.
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 08:46
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Have you followed one of these routes then? I take it modular depends on how much time you can devote to the studying each day?
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 10:42
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PAT in Bournemouth are no longer in business, your location is shown as Yorkshire so if you want to remain local then look at PTT Aviation in Leeds, further afield Aeros (several locations) and Airways Flight Training in Exeter both have good reputations.

Good idea to get your Class 1 medical first as you cannot have a professional licence if you can't pass the medical then get the PPL and do some hours building if possible while studying for the degree before launching into the written exams study, CPL, MEP and MEIR after you graduate.

Good luck
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 11:04
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Hi, yeah I think my initial plan will be to do as you've said and hopefully get a job within an Airline and get my PPL on the side.

I have the same concerns you've mentioned in regards to the ATPL theory, and whilst I feel a proper ground school is the best way, how I'll afford this I don't know. I feel I will have to maybe get my PPL, and then just continue to work and save until I can afford the rest of the training.

Thanks very much, I appreciate that!
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 11:06
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Originally Posted by magicmick View Post
PAT in Bournemouth are no longer in business, your location is shown as Yorkshire so if you want to remain local then look at PTT Aviation in Leeds, further afield Aeros (several locations) and Airways Flight Training in Exeter both have good reputations.

Good idea to get your Class 1 medical first as you cannot have a professional licence if you can't pass the medical then get the PPL and do some hours building if possible while studying for the degree before launching into the written exams study, CPL, MEP and MEIR after you graduate.

Good luck
Yeah PTT is definitely one to think about, I'd prefer to stay up in Yorkshire if possible.

Definitely need to get my Class 1 medical before putting any serious investment in as you say, are these all done down South or are there any places up North where I could get this done?
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 11:41
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Depends on your definition of North, Aeros have a place in Nottingham which for a person from Somerset is pretty North.
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 11:52
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I've just done a search here: https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalap....aspx?appid=21

And it seems there is one that does Class 1 medicals right here in the city I live in and a few more not too far from here, so that's good :-)
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 13:12
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I would check whether or not they are approved to do your very first initial class 1 medical, when I did my training the only place that could conduct the initial class 1 was Gatwick, that might have changed now.

Have you considered applying to join the military as a pilot? Not for everyone but excellent training paid for by the tax payer and a half decent salary while training, just a thought.
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 13:34
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AH okay, thank you for that info, something I'll have to check nearer the time.

I considered it before starting my degree, however at the time I spoke to a Ryanair FO after a flight back from Spain, and he said the Military is something you should only do if you have at least some interest in Military aviation because he said it's very intense and there will be a requirement of you to stay with the Military for so many years after. So I think not having any real interest in the Military side of things, this wouldn't be really a good choice for me
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 20:38
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If it's not for you then that's fine as it is intense and after training her majesty may require you to go somewhere to be shot at.

The training is long, hard, arduous and expensive and the tax payer wants some return on their investment so after qualifying there is a return of service period which is similar to a bond that a civvie airline imposes on a new hire pilot when they type rate them on their aircraft.
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 22:59
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Yeah, I don't think it's for me unfortunately.

I think so far, the best thing I can do is finish this past couple of months of my degree. From there, I need to look at getting a Class 1 medical, and if I get that, see what jobs are hiring.

I think if this means doing cabin crew and getting a taste of the industry whilst doing my PPL, then looking for something better paid after it, then so be it, if I end up doing cabin crew, it doesn't have to be forever.

Hopefully we will see something like this start to appear in the next year: https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/news/t...d-scheme--9603

I do completely understand what people have said in that cabin crew isn't well paid enough to fund the entirity of training, but it would be a way of getting into the industry which would help for future careers and like I say, once I've done my PPL I can look for something better paid, or if something better paid comes up around the time I finish Uni, then I'll look into that, but I'm not writing cabin crew off completely
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 11:50
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That's something I've considered, although I don't think you can do that by just having a law degree, I think I would have to go and get my LPC, at the cost of around 10,000 if not more. From people I know who've got their LPC, they've said it's something you shouldn't go do unless you're really motivated and passionate about law, which sadly I'm not
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 16:09
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Re. Class 1:

You should a) read through the exclusions list and check you don't feature on any of the exclusions b) go and get your initial Class 1 with all the harrowing ECGs etc.

If you can't get a Class 1 you cannot go commercial so it is the thing you do first before you even beginning to think about a career!

There are 3 places you can get an initial now: https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-ind...l-certificate/
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 17:47
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If you have a law degree then I suggest you stay away from CC. You have the qualifications so I suggest you look for work in that area as I'm sure that the pay and benefits will be greater. Firstly, you would be able to fly on the side (going modular). Secondly, I assume the pay will be much greater so you will reach your goal far sooner than if you were going to be CC.
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 19:20
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Originally Posted by momo95 View Post
I don't meant to be rude, but you are graduating with a law degree and want to be a cabin crew member? Have I read this correctly ? :/

If you can do your license on the side then great, otherwise my sincere advice is to stay away from being cc ... I have the utmost respect for all cc, but they are paid peanuts and worked their butts off everyday with relatively little reward.
I know it sounds crazy, but my degree from the very start always was as a backup, it was never something I wanted to then go and practice in as a career.

As I've said above, the wage would likely be enough to cover PPL but then after that it's going to fall way short, so I definitely need to look for something better paid, whether that be inititally or later down the line.

Originally Posted by crablab View Post
Re. Class 1:

You should a) read through the exclusions list and check you don't feature on any of the exclusions b) go and get your initial Class 1 with all the harrowing ECGs etc.

If you can't get a Class 1 you cannot go commercial so it is the thing you do first before you even beginning to think about a career!

There are 3 places you can get an initial now: https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-ind...l-certificate/
So the Initital Class 1 can only be done at these 3 places? What do they do different to the places, say for example in my city, that are capable of issusing a Class 1?

Originally Posted by Jaair View Post
If you have a law degree then I suggest you stay away from CC. You have the qualifications so I suggest you look for work in that area as I'm sure that the pay and benefits will be greater. Firstly, you would be able to fly on the side (going modular). Secondly, I assume the pay will be much greater so you will reach your goal far sooner than if you were going to be CC.
The pay is much greater for jobs in law which require you have an LPC, which is around 10,000 and a heck of a lot of hard work, and most require experience already in the field. So whilst I do understand why people are suggesting I go into Law, it's very difficult to then go and pay 10,000 when I don't find law particularly interesting. I did it as a degree because I was decent at it in college and wanted a safety net. There's a lot of people on my course now that aren't going into law.

Having said that, I also realise CC get paid little. But let's look at Jet2, basic starting salary of 15,000. A friend of mine who does that, once he's earned his commission, can earn up around the 20,000. So let's say if I go into a Human Resources job which my degree would allow me too, the starting salary is around 21,000, and I'd be stuck in an office not getting any industry experience. This is my only issue I have, but I do get what you're all saying I need to see what vacancies are around when I graduate, right now there's not much I can do
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 20:05
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Just to show what I mean guys, take a look at this graduate scheme: https://www.yorkshiregraduates.co.uk...E_SCR?_ts=7507

Take a look at the salary at the bottom.... compare that again with Jet2 which pays a base salary of 15,000, plus commision, plus 100 monthly attendance bonus, plus sector pay as cabin crew...
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