ATPL Theory order for 'Modular route'
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ATPL Theory order for 'Modular route'
Hi all,
I am an US ATPL who wants to convert ratings to JAA frozen ATPL. The following order has been suggested by just about everyone I have spoken to:
Modular
Do a Private Pilot Licence
Build your experience to 100 hours Pilot In Command
Do the ATPL Theory course and exams by distance learning or full time
Do the CPL
Get the Multi Engine Piston rating
Do the Instrument Rating
Do the MCC
Why can't I do the ATPL theory last? I presently have a full time job outside the aviation industry and can only commit time on the weekends. The two two-week sessions I would like to do last when I give up my job to pursue flying full time.
Any thoughts on the order?
-Jason
I am an US ATPL who wants to convert ratings to JAA frozen ATPL. The following order has been suggested by just about everyone I have spoken to:
Modular
Do a Private Pilot Licence
Build your experience to 100 hours Pilot In Command
Do the ATPL Theory course and exams by distance learning or full time
Do the CPL
Get the Multi Engine Piston rating
Do the Instrument Rating
Do the MCC
Why can't I do the ATPL theory last? I presently have a full time job outside the aviation industry and can only commit time on the weekends. The two two-week sessions I would like to do last when I give up my job to pursue flying full time.
Any thoughts on the order?
-Jason
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Sorry Jason, you're not allowed to start a CPL course until you've passed either the CPL theory or the ATPL theory. Likewise, you're not allowed to start the IR course until you've passed either the IR theory or the ATPL theory.
But, for what it's worth, I have a full time job, and I'm doing the ATPL theory exams at the moment. I study most weekends, and often in the evenings after work. It's tough, but possible. I'm taking 3 weeks off work to do the 2-week brush up course, followed by the first set of exams - and I'll need another 3 weeks off work to do the second half of the exams, too.
Welcome to the wonderful world of the CAA!
FFF
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But, for what it's worth, I have a full time job, and I'm doing the ATPL theory exams at the moment. I study most weekends, and often in the evenings after work. It's tough, but possible. I'm taking 3 weeks off work to do the 2-week brush up course, followed by the first set of exams - and I'll need another 3 weeks off work to do the second half of the exams, too.
Welcome to the wonderful world of the CAA!
FFF
-------------
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Thanks FFF! Not sure how I want to tackle this then. Would rather get most of the ratings (including written exams) done first and then take the ATPL theory exams (including the overlap). The two two-week review sessions are a real ******. I only have 5 weeks each year and it is going to mean sacrificing for the exams. But hey...it all come with ate addiction for flying I have!
-Jason
-Jason
Why do it if it's not fun?
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I agree it's a pain having to take time off for the brush-up. But the sessions are definitely not a "real ******". I thought that, too, originally - I'm well educated, and have never had any problems with exams. I've got good marks on all my progress tests so far. But, looking back over my notes, I really can't remember a thing from the early parts of the course! I read a quote somewhere on these forums about effect of the brush-up course - I seem to remember that, on average, marks increase by 15% after completing the session.
However, you might like to take a look at London Guildhall University, who do a course which only has a 1-week brush-up before each set of exams. This is allowed, just about. (The requirement is for 10% of the studying to be full-time. The course is 650 hours, so you need at least 65 hours full-time, over the full course.) I looked at LGU for this reason, but in the end went for Bristol.
Good luck!
FFF
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However, you might like to take a look at London Guildhall University, who do a course which only has a 1-week brush-up before each set of exams. This is allowed, just about. (The requirement is for 10% of the studying to be full-time. The course is 650 hours, so you need at least 65 hours full-time, over the full course.) I looked at LGU for this reason, but in the end went for Bristol.
Good luck!
FFF
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FFF
You appear to be following a similar path to that which I am considering. I am trying to decide which training organisation to do the ATPL distance learning course with and have obtained prospectuses from all the main training providers. I am leaning towards Bristol Groundschool and Pilot Assist. Please can you tell me why you decided to study with Bristol and comment on the content of their study materials and the support they provide during the course?
Also how do you feel you are coping with the workload? Roughly how many hours a week do you actually need to put in to keep up with the study schedule and progress tests?
You appear to be following a similar path to that which I am considering. I am trying to decide which training organisation to do the ATPL distance learning course with and have obtained prospectuses from all the main training providers. I am leaning towards Bristol Groundschool and Pilot Assist. Please can you tell me why you decided to study with Bristol and comment on the content of their study materials and the support they provide during the course?
Also how do you feel you are coping with the workload? Roughly how many hours a week do you actually need to put in to keep up with the study schedule and progress tests?
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PHD,
Do a search on Bristol here, you will find many recommendations, me being one of them. Course material is first class, excellent, clear notes, as is the support and service you get. All of the better establishments are probably of a roughly similar standard, but in the end you have to plump for one of them, I chose BGS and am glad I did.
good luck.
Do a search on Bristol here, you will find many recommendations, me being one of them. Course material is first class, excellent, clear notes, as is the support and service you get. All of the better establishments are probably of a roughly similar standard, but in the end you have to plump for one of them, I chose BGS and am glad I did.
good luck.
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Cheaper option - and recommended by various members of the CAA...
PPL (easy conversion from an FAA) - three written exams and an R/T test (probably the hardest bit for you)
50 hours cross country (which you probably have already)
ATPL theory groundschool (distance learning??)
Multi Engine Piston
Instrument Rating course and test....have it added to your PPL.
CPL course and test
MCC (which you could probably teach!!)
I have NOT looked to see what exemptions you may have - depends on what you have to support that FAA ATP.
ALL (except, at least part of, the instrument rating, can be done in Florida, if it helps)
PPL (easy conversion from an FAA) - three written exams and an R/T test (probably the hardest bit for you)
50 hours cross country (which you probably have already)
ATPL theory groundschool (distance learning??)
Multi Engine Piston
Instrument Rating course and test....have it added to your PPL.
CPL course and test
MCC (which you could probably teach!!)
I have NOT looked to see what exemptions you may have - depends on what you have to support that FAA ATP.
ALL (except, at least part of, the instrument rating, can be done in Florida, if it helps)
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Jason, you dont need to do any flying prior to commencing the theory and then the CPL because you already have an ICAO professional license. I'm surprised you are not aware of this.
Hence the first step is to do the ATPL theory.
Good Luck
Hence the first step is to do the ATPL theory.
Good Luck
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Coming from an FAA perspective I think you have slightly misunderstood the role of the ATPL in Europe, Jason. In the US it is only possible to achieve ATPL groundschool when you have the requisite hours.
Under JAA with ATPL goundschool (14 exams) and CPL/IR I, for example, have a "fozen ATPL" before I have 1500 hours. This may currently be used as a CPL/IR, and when I have the requisite hours will become an ATPL.
If you wished to do a CPL and IR without ATPL exams you would actually have to sit 18 exams before the licence and rating! Before the CPL there would be 9 exams, and a furter 9 before the IR. Having a CPL gives no concessions on the IR exams, and vice versa, even teh Human Performance exam which is the same paper!
As you already have an ICAO licence you can take the course now (need not be a UK PPL - I only ever had an FAA PPL until my UK CPL). I would suggest a distance learning course as FFF is taking. You must sit an approved course (unless you have a given level of experience on your US licence - check with the CAA. If so you will still have to pass the exam, but can study as much or little as required) which if distance learning includes a couple of two-week classroom-learning courses.
Email me as in my profile if you have any other querries.
Under JAA with ATPL goundschool (14 exams) and CPL/IR I, for example, have a "fozen ATPL" before I have 1500 hours. This may currently be used as a CPL/IR, and when I have the requisite hours will become an ATPL.
If you wished to do a CPL and IR without ATPL exams you would actually have to sit 18 exams before the licence and rating! Before the CPL there would be 9 exams, and a furter 9 before the IR. Having a CPL gives no concessions on the IR exams, and vice versa, even teh Human Performance exam which is the same paper!
As you already have an ICAO licence you can take the course now (need not be a UK PPL - I only ever had an FAA PPL until my UK CPL). I would suggest a distance learning course as FFF is taking. You must sit an approved course (unless you have a given level of experience on your US licence - check with the CAA. If so you will still have to pass the exam, but can study as much or little as required) which if distance learning includes a couple of two-week classroom-learning courses.
Email me as in my profile if you have any other querries.
Last edited by Send Clowns; 22nd Jun 2002 at 10:54.
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Thanks for the clarification folks. I have only recently decided to change careers, so still trying to get up to speed with all the requirements. Thanks for your help,
-Jason
-Jason
Why do it if it's not fun?
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phd,
Sorry for taking a while to reply - I've been away for a few days. But since I'm having a slow day at work, I'll make up for it with a detailed response
There were several reasons why I chose Bristol. First, personal recommendations from a couple of ex-students. I also had personal recommendations from people in the groundschool industry, but who aren't connected with Bristol in any way.
Next, I sent all of the schools with approved distance-learning courses a standard letter. For distance learning, I feel the quality of the course notes is the single most important factor. (For full-time, I'd say it's the quality of instruction.) Therefore, my letter requested a sample of the course notes. None of the schools sent me a sample of the notes as I'd requested - although many of them did say they'd be happy for me to visit them and look at the notes. The exception was Bristol, who actually included a couple of pages from the the notes in their standard information package "because the quality of the notes is the single most important factor for a distance learning course" (not an exact quote). Here was a school which clearly thought along the same lines as me.
The quality of the notes, judging by the samples in the information pack, was excellent. They also included a sample of the CD which accompanies the course, and I was very impressed by that, too.
Now that I'm well into my studying, I'm completely happy with my choice. The notes are, without exception, excellent. I haven't used the CD that much, except for the progress tests - it's been extremely helpful to be able to test myself on the computer before doing the test "for real" (although some of the questions don't translate onto the computer too well...)
The staff at Bristol seem to be excellent, too, although I haven't run into any real difficulties which would have required the staff to go out of their way too much for me. I send my progress tests in my e-mail, and usually get a mark back the next working day. I've had a few other queries, and got prompt replies to them, too. The couple of times I've phoned and spoken to Noush, she's seemed extremely pleasant and helpful.
The workload - now we're getting into the fun part! I would always recommend full-time studying to anyone who's able to do so. Distance learning is hard. I usually try to do 2 or 3 progress tests per week. This generally involves reading the material during the evenings, after work, to get a general feel for the subject. Then, at the weekend, I'll spend several hours re-reading everything, making notes and highlighting where appropriate. Usually by Sunday afternoon I'm happy enough to do the progress test - on the computer first, to check that I really am happy with how well I've learnt the subject. Try to take a few hours break after doing the test on the computer and before doing it for real, so that when I do the test for real I'm not doing it purely from memory. I honestly can't say how many hours a week I spend studying, other than "lots". Some weeks it's more than others, depending on how difficult I find the subjects, of course.
Working this way, but with an occassional week of having something else to do at the weekend, and so only doing one subject that week (or sometimes none at all, but I try to keep those to an absolute minimum) it's taken me 6 or 7 months to do the first half of the course. With the brush-up session booked, and less than a month away, I can't say I'm confident - although I had no problems with the material when I was initially studying it, I really don't remember much of what I studied 6 month ago any more. I'm hoping to have a week or two before the brush-up to do a bit of a "home brush-up" session, and I'm expecting the guys at Bristol to feed me some magic memory-pill so that I can remember 6 months worth of studying when I get into the exam!
As others have said, do a search for Bristol, it's been discussed many times before on this forum. And feel free to e-mail me if you want any more info. What stage are you at - am I right in thinking you have a PPL and will start studying soon?
Good luck!
FFF
-----------------
Sorry for taking a while to reply - I've been away for a few days. But since I'm having a slow day at work, I'll make up for it with a detailed response
There were several reasons why I chose Bristol. First, personal recommendations from a couple of ex-students. I also had personal recommendations from people in the groundschool industry, but who aren't connected with Bristol in any way.
Next, I sent all of the schools with approved distance-learning courses a standard letter. For distance learning, I feel the quality of the course notes is the single most important factor. (For full-time, I'd say it's the quality of instruction.) Therefore, my letter requested a sample of the course notes. None of the schools sent me a sample of the notes as I'd requested - although many of them did say they'd be happy for me to visit them and look at the notes. The exception was Bristol, who actually included a couple of pages from the the notes in their standard information package "because the quality of the notes is the single most important factor for a distance learning course" (not an exact quote). Here was a school which clearly thought along the same lines as me.
The quality of the notes, judging by the samples in the information pack, was excellent. They also included a sample of the CD which accompanies the course, and I was very impressed by that, too.
Now that I'm well into my studying, I'm completely happy with my choice. The notes are, without exception, excellent. I haven't used the CD that much, except for the progress tests - it's been extremely helpful to be able to test myself on the computer before doing the test "for real" (although some of the questions don't translate onto the computer too well...)
The staff at Bristol seem to be excellent, too, although I haven't run into any real difficulties which would have required the staff to go out of their way too much for me. I send my progress tests in my e-mail, and usually get a mark back the next working day. I've had a few other queries, and got prompt replies to them, too. The couple of times I've phoned and spoken to Noush, she's seemed extremely pleasant and helpful.
The workload - now we're getting into the fun part! I would always recommend full-time studying to anyone who's able to do so. Distance learning is hard. I usually try to do 2 or 3 progress tests per week. This generally involves reading the material during the evenings, after work, to get a general feel for the subject. Then, at the weekend, I'll spend several hours re-reading everything, making notes and highlighting where appropriate. Usually by Sunday afternoon I'm happy enough to do the progress test - on the computer first, to check that I really am happy with how well I've learnt the subject. Try to take a few hours break after doing the test on the computer and before doing it for real, so that when I do the test for real I'm not doing it purely from memory. I honestly can't say how many hours a week I spend studying, other than "lots". Some weeks it's more than others, depending on how difficult I find the subjects, of course.
Working this way, but with an occassional week of having something else to do at the weekend, and so only doing one subject that week (or sometimes none at all, but I try to keep those to an absolute minimum) it's taken me 6 or 7 months to do the first half of the course. With the brush-up session booked, and less than a month away, I can't say I'm confident - although I had no problems with the material when I was initially studying it, I really don't remember much of what I studied 6 month ago any more. I'm hoping to have a week or two before the brush-up to do a bit of a "home brush-up" session, and I'm expecting the guys at Bristol to feed me some magic memory-pill so that I can remember 6 months worth of studying when I get into the exam!
As others have said, do a search for Bristol, it's been discussed many times before on this forum. And feel free to e-mail me if you want any more info. What stage are you at - am I right in thinking you have a PPL and will start studying soon?
Good luck!
FFF
-----------------
